The increasing responsibility of Pakistan Navy and is it ready?

[Humble Analyst]

The defense of Pakistani coastal areas and keeping the water routes open is the responsibility of PN.
In view of India’s latest program to acquire guided missile destroyers, the threat and protection zone of Indian Ocean/Arabian Sea has increased for Pak, PN and PAF.
Indian Aircraft Carrier with MiG 29K, subs and stand off weapons on IAF are already a threat.
With the increased threat of having guided destroyers in Indian Navy fleet what is minimum area of the Arabian Sea/Indian Ocean PN should be prepared to defend?
PN is acquiring subs, corvettes and Frigates however the situation can be more complex if the Poseidon operate under the umbrella of Aircraft Carrier or Missiles are fired from destroyers in the cover of Mig29k. Corvettes and frigates abilities are limited and PC3 need escort at longer range if they have to counter the threats.
In all scenarios it is vital to have the runways protected and having some reliable ships or planes with long range.
I am not a fan of a small Navy like PN to operate an aircraft carrier and it is financially very cumbersome. Question is how to effectively counter the threat posed by the IN and IAF denying a certain distance from Pakistani coast?
That distance is greater due to increase in threat level.
@MastanKhan @waz @fatman17 @Khafee @araz @Dubious and all others who want to discuss threats posed by IN and IAF currently and in near future.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

The threat that you have mentioned is a real threat---more real than land threat---.

But then naval assets are very very expensive and require a lots of man power to maintain and manage---.

Why did the pak military did not thin about it 7-10 year ago---!

Coming back---again---the least expensive way to protect our land assets from a sea strike is heavy strike aircraft---.

The INVENTION of standoff weapons has changed the face & strategy of war---.

An air force that is defensive in nature is a part of the package but not the total package at all---.

Until and unless you have heavy strike aircraft that can carry a heavy load and go farther out to reach the enemy---the nation is doomed.

Pak military will have to invest in heavy strike aircraft at all costs---at least 40-60 of them---.

If you had read some of my older threads about this issue---I had suggested that for the navy---the package of 8 subs should be changed and costs split---.

The first tranche should be 4 subs---2 type 054's and 20 JH7A's

and the second tranche should be another 4 subs---another 2 type 054's and another 20 JH7A's---.

That way---all three desperately needed assets could be had in a timely manner in a parallel---.

The order of 8 subs at one time---the order of 4 type 054's at anther time and no heavy naval strike aircraft at all showed a lack of understanding on the parts of the decision makers---.

 

[Humble Analyst]

Hi,

The threat that you have mentioned is a real threat---more real than land threat---.

But then naval assets are very very expensive and require a lots of man power to maintain and manage---.

Why did the pak military did not thin about it 7-10 year ago---!

Coming back---again---the least expensive way to protect our land assets from a sea strike is heavy strike aircraft---.

The INVENTION of standoff weapons has changed the face & strategy of war---.

An air force that is defensive in nature is a part of the package but not the total package at all---.

Until and unless you have heavy strike aircraft that can carry a heavy load and go farther out to reach the enemy---the nation is doomed.

Pak military will have to invest in heavy strike aircraft at all costs---at least 40 of them---.

If you had ready some of my older threads about this issue---I had suggested tht for the navy---the package of 8 subs should be changed and costs split---.

The first tranche should be 4 subs---2 type 054's and 20 JH7A's

and the second tranche should be another 4 subs---another 2 type 054's and another 20 JH7A's---.

That way---all three desperately needed assets could be had in a timely manner in a parallel---.

The order of 8 subs at one time---the order of 2 type 054's at anther time and no heavy naval strike aircraft at all showed a lack of understanding on the parts of the decision makers---.

This could be possible solution and in order for it to work will need supportive planes like AWACS with loitering ability. Another Airfield which is not in the range of IAF.
However PN needs air defense naval assets too as all these planes cannot be up in the air all the time and without satellite, pN need to see into Indian Ocean and protect the PN subs.

 

[Arsalan 345]

long range is a big problem for pakistan.indian strategy is not blockade but to stay away from pakistani waters and send some of it's destroyers and migs close to pakistani waters to attack.this strategy will keep the larger enemy force away from coast and staying in deep ocean is their protection.they know pakistan navy can't challenge them if they stay away from our coast.for us,going in deep ocean means suicide.they know pakistan navy have standoff weapons,missiles that's why they will never come closer to pakistani coast.they will select some of their destroyers to come closer to pakistan waters and large escort of migs will protect them from pakistani fighter jets and pakistani sams.basically we have no strategy to attack india in their own coast.our policy is defensive because of lack of submarines and destroyers.answer to your question is simple.our duty based on our current fleet is to deter them.we can defend our coast but we can't destroy important indian fleet in deep ocean and we have no strategy to attack indian coast except submarines that's why we are purchasing 8 subs.our survival depends on submarines and protection of our coast.deep ocean missions will be suicide.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Yes , they have more than 2-3 tricks up their sleeves which can surprise IN , the size of IN is much bigger and advance which forces ours Navy to make some unexpected changes and make some out of the box thinking .
I have a firm believe that in case of any naval confrontation 2 friendly countries would help Pakistan from behind the doors . Like it happen on the night of 28th of February @Khafee

 

[Khafee]

Hi,

The threat that you have mentioned is a real threat---more real than land threat---.

But then naval assets are very very expensive and require a lots of man power to maintain and manage---.

Why did the pak military did not thin about it 7-10 year ago---!

Coming back---again---the least expensive way to protect our land assets from a sea strike is heavy strike aircraft---.

The INVENTION of standoff weapons has changed the face & strategy of war---.

An air force that is defensive in nature is a part of the package but not the total package at all---.

Until and unless you have heavy strike aircraft that can carry a heavy load and go farther out to reach the enemy---the nation is doomed.

Pak military will have to invest in heavy strike aircraft at all costs---at least 40 of them---.

If you had ready some of my older threads about this issue---I had suggested tht for the navy---the package of 8 subs should be changed and costs split---.

The first tranche should be 4 subs---2 type 054's and 20 JH7A's

and the second tranche should be another 4 subs---another 2 type 054's and another 20 JH7A's---.

That way---all three desperately needed assets could be had in a timely manner in a parallel---.

The order of 8 subs at one time---the order of 2 type 054's at anther time and no heavy naval strike aircraft at all showed a lack of understanding on the parts of the decision makers---.

Twin Heavies are required, no doubt.

2 Sqdns for the Navy
1 Sqdn for the AF

This is a min. The sooner they do it, the better it would be.

Btw what do you make of tornadoes?

 

[War Historian]

Twin Heavies are required, no doubt.

2 Sqdns for the Navy
1 Sqdn for the AF

This is a min. The sooner they do it, the better it would be.

Btw what do you make of tornadoes?

Asalam u alaikum, Sir do you mean Saudi Air Force Tornado jets which will be soon retire from their duties?
Sir do you think Pakistan can get those monster jets?
Thank you Sir.

 

[Khafee]

Asalam u alaikum, Sir do you mean Saudi Air Force Tornado jets which will be soon retire from their duties?
Sir do you think Pakistan can get those monster jets?
Thank you Sir.

Yes

 

[War Historian]

If Pakistan able to buy old EFT from Austria,Spain and Italy, which are tranche 1 mostly. And they are for air superemacy.
But in Pakistan scenario Saudi retired Tornadoes or Used EFT can turn the table in very cost effective manners.thanks

 

[Khafee]

If Pakistan able to buy old EFT from Austria,Spain and Italy, which are tranche 1 mostly. And they are for air superemacy.
But in Pakistan scenario Saudi retired Tornadoes or Used EFT can turn the table in very cost effective manners.thanks

EFT's for PAF seems to be a long shot. Tornadoes, might be doable.

 

[fitpOsitive]

Kashmir ka masla or economy ka masla tu shayad kabhi hal na hon, but let's be realistic and invest on necessary things.

 

[War Historian]

EFT's for PAF seems to be a long shot. Tornadoes, might be doable.

Sir used EFT might be in our financial range. Because Austria want to sale its 15 jets. Spain also offering to different countries its tranche 1 level 18 jets and Italy also willing to sale 20 tranche 1 jets. If we count them 53 in total.and these jets are tranche 1 which are air superiorty jets.so these jets can even stop indian jets from any side they attack.
They might be in a range of 1.5 to 2 billion US$. And these used jets will be far better than the 50 years old Mirages. Our PAC might be upgrade them into multirole with Italian help.there is a will there is a way. Sir.

 

[Khafee]

Sir used EFT might be in our financial range. Because Austria want to sale its 15 jets. Spain also offering to different countries its tranche 1 level 18 jets and Italy also willing to sale 20 tranche 1 jets. If we count them 53 in total.and these jets are tranche 1 which are air superiorty jets.
They might be in a range of 1.5 to 2 billion US$. And these used jets will be far better than the 50 years old Mirages. Our PAC might be upgrade them into multirole with Italian help.there is a will there is a way. Sir.

@HRK @MastanKhan are both witnesses, I had informed them that the 2nd hand EFT deal was nearly done.

Unfortunately, financial constraints made that deal collapse.

 

[CHI RULES]

Hi,

The threat that you have mentioned is a real threat---more real than land threat---.

But then naval assets are very very expensive and require a lots of man power to maintain and manage---.

Why did the pak military did not thin about it 7-10 year ago---!

Coming back---again---the least expensive way to protect our land assets from a sea strike is heavy strike aircraft---.

The INVENTION of standoff weapons has changed the face & strategy of war---.

An air force that is defensive in nature is a part of the package but not the total package at all---.

Until and unless you have heavy strike aircraft that can carry a heavy load and go farther out to reach the enemy---the nation is doomed.

Pak military will have to invest in heavy strike aircraft at all costs---at least 40 of them---.

If you had ready some of my older threads about this issue---I had suggested tht for the navy---the package of 8 subs should be changed and costs split---.

The first tranche should be 4 subs---2 type 054's and 20 JH7A's

and the second tranche should be another 4 subs---another 2 type 054's and another 20 JH7A's---.

That way---all three desperately needed assets could be had in a timely manner in a parallel---.

The order of 8 subs at one time---the order of 2 type 054's at anther time and no heavy naval strike aircraft at all showed a lack of understanding on the parts of the decision makers---.

Fighter/bomber jets are not directly operated by PN but by PAF, so funds are allocated separately for both forces. As per current scenario at least after having subs/Type 54 PN shall be in position to strike and defend as expected SAM on PN Type 54 expected to be 70+KM HQ16b variant, meanwhile eight subs with capability to fire CMs having range of 600 to 800 KM from different areas, depth of ocean are quite required in short term. It is your right view that they should have got some assets till now.

It is more of responsibility of PAF to get some heavy jets for naval duties, perhaps the time has come for old Mirage Vs to at least say them good bye in case of naval roles immediately. Mig 29K of India are quite modern and cannot be handled in 1 to 1 encounter by Mirage-V.Meanwhile so far we have perhaps only JF17 squadron designated for naval duties.

PN should immediately upgrade it's existing F22P fleet and OHP with any medium range capable SAM, may be Russian naval combo of Gun/SAM are quite capable otherwise South African path is also open though expensive.

 

[War Historian]

@HRK @MastanKhan are both witnesses, I had informed them that the 2nd hand EFT deal was nearly done.

Unfortunately, financial constraints made that deal collapse.

Sir, with full respect.if Pakistan can manage finance for new tanks, new attack helicopter,new large submarine fleet,new surface vessels, and many more civilian development mega projects inside country. Then these 2 billion $ for Used EFT is not a big deal for govt and air Force.but at end of the day these 3 squadrons will do the job at our marine boundaries.thank you Sir.