The Image of Pakistan Army Fast Getting Restored

[owais.usmani]

Every COA can not be Gen. Ashfaq Pervaiz Kiyani. Hoping for the best.

Absolutely!!!! probably the best chief of army staff we ever had!!!!

 

[TaimiKhan]

I see on TV all these Imran Khan, JUI guys and all others that what Mushy did was wrong by siding with America, but they dont realise Mushy saved Pak ***, look urself how palestinians are dying,iraqi's dying,afghnis dying but no single muslim nation stood up or even help these muslims. Arab countries r rich in oil but they r busy in their own luxuries and buying state of the art military equipment but not for using to protect the muslims. If america had attacked Pak do u think any muslim nation would have helped Pak, no way. And if america had attacked these all would have run away abroad. JI is the same party whose founder had declared Kashmiri Jihad as wrong as it wasnt for Islam and they talk abt Afghan Jihad. JUI, JI all these leaders r double faced ******* who damn care about pakistan. If we look at the Islamic History, the Prophet Muhammad PBUH used all kind of strategies to keep the Muslims safe and propagate Islam. He did wars, he made pacts even at inferior terms (Hudaibiya), and even dug a trench in Jang-e-Uhad and didnt came face to face with Kafirs. It doesnt means muslims were afraid rather u do what the situation requires. Muslims are weak and dis-integrated, first priority is to get united and then face & fight those who oppress us. Going and banging ur head into a wall will not bring any results, only will make u bleed.

Pak is for sure doing a double game, saving Pak *** and countering USA by supporting Afghan Taliban as if we didnt do that we have a hostile neighbour friendly to our arch enemies who will create trouble for us. As no one likes us having nukes and being an islamic country with nukes.

 

[batmannow]

its always bieng the incompitant pakistani politicians , beging for the power, BB or NS, the bigest & THE BADST of them , always looking at GHQ , doors whither at the times of COAS kakar shahib , or GEN ASIF NAWAZ shahib , but both of our horible politicians kept beging for , a power swing from the doors of GHQ.
kiyani shahib , was doing a planned thing , which was designed by mushraf shahib, MUSHARAF shahib was the reason , why KIYANI shahib is now COAS, so what ever critics would say, it was MUSHARAF shahibs dececion , what , we are watching in the form , of COAS kiyani?
our educated elite , have a very serious problum , when they cant critisize any wrong doings of our politicians , they always look for the help towards "FAUJ" & when they cant get enough luxuries to live in they cry "FAUJI" wrong , & wellcome to " DEMOCRAZY".
they really cant , fix thier wild minds, which were programmed to get more & more!
KIYANI shahib is doing, overhauling job for our army. & its about time too, but its not that, he is going to live in , in this role forever?
wait & see!
pakistan needs a kick a***s kind of army backed revolution , in which army would remain ,only in checking & mentaining balance role, & thts it!
the armed forces of pakistan always be supreme , not because they have the militry might , but they are supreme because, of thier die-hard kind of sacrificial minds, in any kind of situations, & they should be supreme because of thier sacrifices , which they always kept givn!!

 

[TaimiKhan]

And last of All gentlemen, there is a global conspiracy (way above our heads to understand) against muslims as other nations specially jews and christians know that if muslims get united, they dont have a chance as our past is a proof to it.

As for Pakistan, dont blame the army, they r not farishtay, they r human being like us, who can make mistakes too. The thing is our politicians are the one who have to make pakistan better and dont come to a situation where army has to come and save our ***. Our army has,is and will keep shedding its blood by saving Pakistan, its for our politicians and nation to rise and make pakistan what it deserves.

Its very easy to criticize the army by sitting in Isb, Khr, Lhr etc in peace, ask the soldiers who are in the deserts of punjab & sindh, in the try dust filled mountains of FATA & Balochistan, unimaginable heights & cold of kashmir, siachen. Hundreds of miles away from their parents, wife, children.They suffer for Pakistan & suffer gladly. Their bodies come home in unrecognizable form, many times missing body parts or in pieces, and many times no body is even recovered. Give them respect which they deserve, they are like us too, make mistakes. Ask your politicians to become a pakistani.

Its very easy to criticize the defence budget or corruption in army, but no one sees to the corruption & expenses of our politicians. We have 90+ ministers at the federal level, and the provincial ministers just figure out urselves. Balochistan has a 65 or so member parliament and they have 40+ ministers.

There is a long list on which to talk, but i would just ask you guys that before criticizing do take in note what the reality is as every issue has different angles to look from.

If someone has been offended or didint liked anything am sorry for it.

Rise Pakistan

God bless you all.

AH

 

[EyelessInGaza]

The Image of Pakistan Army Fast Getting Restored ALAIWAH!

The Image of Pakistan Army Fast Getting Restored

by Nirupama Subramanian, The Hindu

Down at heel until a few months ago, the Pakistan Army has swiftly and successfully rebuilt its image on the back of the Swat operation.
..............

---------------
An eye opener for many, but only if they want to see.

While steps taken by the PA or the politicians in Pakistan may be a contributing factor, IMO the key and sustainable reason for an improvement in image, IMO, is the presence of a civilian government at the helm.

Civilian governments act as firebreaks; they deflect criticism from the army. In most countries - can't say this fully for Pakistan yet - since governments have the benefit of controlling the army, they also take the maximum public criticism for any misstep. Certainly this is the case in India. It now seems to be the case in Pakistan.

On the other hand, where armies take over the ruling class, they also attract the maximum criticism, regardless of how good or bad they actually are.

In other words, in the eyes of the public, if you take the leadership, you also take the blame.

 

[qsaark]

You again missed the basics Qsaark, though you do have some knowledge but not all of it, sorry to put it bluntly. Now here's why; you said there are black sheep (enough folks) in the who are qiute attractive to politics, but you missed that even if a few Maj gens and some Lt Gen might fall in this category which you have sarcastically described, still it would take a die-hard Politics Lover COAS for such a thing to get materialized. With Gen Kiyani in command i dont think many 'jouniors' would be ready to take this risk!

I may have faith, may not be the right word, lets say confidence in him. But he is going to be retired in 2012 I guess. Who will take his place, what will be his intentions, neither can I predict nor can you be certain.

This all is a clear indication of the BIASED stories that you have been reading (deliberately as you 'naturally' dont like the military) time over and again, without keeping the other side of the story in view (again deliberately).

It's guud to keep the balance, otherwise the life itself gets imbalance!

If you could provide me with non-biased references or books (other than “in the line of fire&#8221, I’ll definitely read so I could bring some balance in my life. By the way is not the fact that Ayub took Presidency from Iskander Mirza? And Yahya took command from Ayub? Would you name the politicians who urged Iskander Mirza, Ayub, Yahya and Musharraf to impose Military rule? Of course you’ll also quote from credible reference to fortify your claims.

 

[pak-marine]

as long as army is doing the job its suppose to do and stay in their barracks yes nothin stoping army to restore its image .... ! day is near when pak have an army as to army having pakistan ..

 

[Zulfiqar]

And the man he put in control of such a huge and professional army was a man from the engineering corp (no hard feelings for any engineer corps officer), but thats not the way. In history this has never happened that u place a guy who has no experience of commanding an infantry brigade, fighting division or a frontline corps.

The officers from engineer corp did not like him either especially after he became the head of ISI. The general was not a good choice and its better to have chiefs from infantry and other fighting arms but please do not think that the whole engineer corps only makes roads.

They also have a combative role. They are always at the head of the assault and after making a bridgehead they take the role of normal infantry in defending the area(apart from mining,de mining e.t.c). Engineer Corps do have their own brigades which are part of the corps. I am not sure but i think there were instances when Maj Gen from engineer corps have become Div commanders.

Most of the logistics for the 1998 tests was handled by a general from engineer corps.

 

[Xeric]

I may have faith, may not be the right word, lets say confidence in him. But he is going to be retired in 2012 I guess. Who will take his place, what will be his intentions, neither can I predict nor can you be certain.

If you could provide me with non-biased references or books (other than “in the line of fire”), I’ll definitely read so I could bring some balance in my life. By the way is not the fact that Ayub took Presidency from Iskander Mirza? And Yahya took command from Ayub? Would you name the politicians who urged Iskander Mirza, Ayub, Yahya and Musharraf to impose Military rule? Of course you’ll also quote from credible reference to fortify your claims.

If we go by your belief, the proportions and the the probabilty theory (as in Maths) then there shouldnt have been a lull between Zia and Musharraf and also Kiyani should have been taken over from Mush not as an COAS but as a President!

As for the books, look around you'll find many, only if you want them to be seen around you. And as for the names, shouldnt i even tell you the names of the waiters who served tea during those meetings?!

 

[qsaark]

Its very easy to criticize the army by sitting in Isb, Khr, Lhr etc in peace, ask the soldiers who are in the deserts of punjab & sindh, in the try dust filled mountains of FATA & Balochistan, unimaginable heights & cold of kashmir, siachen. Hundreds of miles away from their parents, wife, children.They suffer for Pakistan & suffer gladly. Their bodies come home in unrecognizable form, many times missing body parts or in pieces, and many times no body is even recovered. Give them respect which they deserve, they are like us too, make mistakes. Ask your politicians to become a pakistani.

Nobody is criticizing them. I don’t have words to show my respect and my love for these men. In fact no such words are invented yet which could be used to honor their everyday sacrifices. It is not them whom we are discussing here; we are discussing the top brass.

 

[Xeric]

The officers from engineer corp did not like him either especially after he became the head of ISI. The general was not a good choice and its better to have chiefs from infantry and other fighting arms but please do not think that the whole engineer corps only makes roads.

They also have a combative role. They are always at the head of the assault and after making a bridgehead they take the role of normal infantry in defending the area(apart from mining,de mining e.t.c). Engineer Corps do have their own brigades which are part of the corps. I am not sure but i think there were instances when a Maj Gen from engineer corps have become Div commanders.

Most of the logistics for the 1998 tests was handled by a general from engineer corps.

AoA,

Well in 1999 the nawaz govt itself made things happened to make the army come and take power. U dont dismiss a COAS while he is abroad without the proper procedure. Army would have accepted the decision,but they did remember what nawaz did with COAS Jehangir Karamat,who had resigned in a peaceful way. And the main reason army reacted was u dont put one of your own yaar as COAS by superseding other senior ones. And the man he put in control of such a huge and professional army was a man from the engineering corp (no hard feelings for any engineer corps officer), but thats not the way. In histroy this has never happened that u place a guy who has no experience of commanding an infantry brigade, fighting division or a frontline corps. And u but this guy incharge of a 550,000 force armed forces which is admired for its professionalism around the world. Yes army may have some drawbacks, but they r way better then the civil administration and its working. The economical progress Pak made under Mushy is an example, what ever the way it may have been by aid or whatever, atleast we got rid of IMF which is now once again trying to destroy our economy. We were atleast getting up on our feet. There was no economic bubble which has burst rather its due to the incompetence of the present govt that economy has gone so worst. Just see yourself that we dont have a proper federal minister for finance for the last 2 years, rather an advisor is running the show. Same was the case for interior minister who just recently became a minister.

Ok ok! No more Fighting Arms vs Supporting Arms Wars here, please.
Chill

 

[Zulfiqar]

Ok ok! No more Fighting Arms vs Supporting Arms Wars here, please.

Don't worry, i was just expressing my opinion. Peace!

 

[qsaark]

Army would have accepted the decision,but they did remember what nawaz did with COAS Jehangir Karamat,who had resigned in a peaceful way. And the main reason army reacted was u dont put one of your own yaar as COAS by superseding other senior ones.

Sorry dude, I missed your post. It was only when Xeric quoted it and it came into my notice. OK, the part that I have marked with bold. Do you know how many times it has happened in the history of PA that a junior General was given preference over a senior and most of the time more professional one for the post of COAS? What about Yahya who superseded Qadir and Rana? Did Army revolt against that decision? What about Zia who superseded 5 senior Generals? Did Army revolt? What about Musharraf who superseded Ali Quli? Did Army revolt.

It is all right to give reasons, but doing a little research wont hurt.

 

[Xeric]

Sorry dude, I missed your post. It was only when Xeric quoted it and it came into my notice. OK, the part that I have marked with bold. Do you know how many times it has happened in the history of PA that a junior General was given preference over a senior and most of the time more professional one for the post of COAS? What about Yahya who superseded Qadir and Rana? Did Army revolt against that decision? What about Zia who superseded 5 senior Generals? Did Army revolt? What about Musharraf who superseded Ali Quli? Did Army revolt.

It is all right to give reasons, but doing a little research wont hurt.

Ok, i dont want to get between both of you, but a little clarification. It is an army sir, not a private enterprise where if some dude is not promoted he go on a hunger strike. Supersedes are common in any military, it is not necessary that the 'senior' has to get promoted what so ever. If that be the case, then by the time the last officer from a particular Long Course would reach his turn to get promoted even as a Lt Col, his Course Leader would already have been retired or dead and he himself would like walking with a stick.

 

[qsaark]

Ok, i dont want to get between both of you, but a little clarification. It is an army sir, not a private enterprise where if some dude is not promoted he go on a hunger strike. Supersedes are common in any military, it is not necessary that the 'senior' has to get promoted what so ever. If that be the case, then by the time the last officer from a particular Long Course would reach his turn to get promoted even as a Lt Col, his Course Leader would already have been retired or dead and he himself would like walking with a stick.

Did you even read my post in which context I am replying to him? When did I say or suggest that 'senior' has to get promotion no matter what?