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The Hard Core Prefer Russian

HAIDER

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July 24, 2010: The U.S. recently delivered four refurbished Mi-17 helicopters to Pakistan. The U.S. is refurbishing 24 of these helicopters for Pakistan, and the remaining eight will be completed by the end of the year. After that, another ten will be done. The U.S. also recently delivered two Bell 412 helicopters (an advanced civilian version of the UH-1). The U.S. has also found 13 old AH-1 gunships, which it is giving to Pakistan to be used as spare parts for Pakistani AH-1s. The U.S. also recently delivered 13 AH-1 helicopter gunships. Pakistan particularly wants gunship models, as these are a key weapon in their battle with pro-Taliban Pushtun tribesmen. The U.S. has been upgrading its current fleet of older AH-1s. The Pakistanis consider the American helicopter gunships more reliable, and find the older ones easier to keep safe to fly. But for transport, the Russian Mi-17 is the preferred ride. Cheap, rugged and easy to handle, these birds have put the usually fearsome tribesmen at a disadvantage.

Not all these American gifts have been appreciated. Last year, the United States gave Pakistan four Mi-17 transport helicopters. Earlier this year, Pakistan announced it wants to give them back. The reason was age, as these four helicopters were old, mostly from the 1990s. One of them had crashed, and the Pakistanis feared it was not worth the hassle of keeping these aging choppers in flying condition.

Pakistan already has over 80 Mi-17s, but is always looking for more. The reason for this is because over a hundred thousand Pakistani troops are at war with Pushtun tribesmen along the Afghan border. Helicopters are an important factor in the army's success in that fight. The Pakistani army has a fleet of over 300 helicopters, including 28 AH-1 gunships and 35 UH-1 transports. But the Mi-17 is a favorite, partly because Pakistan does not have the human or material resources required for U.S. helicopter maintenance operations.

The Mi-17 is the export version of the Russian Mi-8, a twin-engine helicopter, roughly equivalent to the U.S. UH-1. But the Mi-8/17 is still in production and is the most widely exported (2,800 out of 12,000 made) helicopter on the planet. The Mi-8 is about twice the size and weight of the UH-1, but only hauls about 50 percent more cargo. However, the Mi-8 had a larger interior, and can carry 24 troops, versus a dozen in the UH-1. The UH-1 was replaced by the UH-60 in the 1980s, while the Mi-8 just kept adding better engines and electronics to the basic Mi-8 frame. But the UH-60, while weighing ten tons (compared to UH-1s' 4.8 tons), could carry as much as the 12 ton Mi-8. But the Mi-8 costs about half as much as a UH-60, and the larger interior is popular with many users. Russia also charges less for training pilots and mechanics. The U.S. has lots of experience with Mi-17s because it has led the way in obtaining this model for Iraq and Afghanistan (both long time users of the Mi-17.)
Procurement: The Hard Core Prefer Russian
 
Not all these American gifts have been appreciated. Last year, the United States gave Pakistan four Mi-17 transport helicopters. Earlier this year, Pakistan announced it wants to give them back. The reason was age, as these four helicopters were old, mostly from the 1990s. One of them had crashed, and the Pakistanis feared it was not worth the hassle of keeping these aging choppers in flying condition.
Pakistan Army Aviation really takes care of its assets. They returned these Mi-17s not only because they were old, a lot of the PAA's helicopters are old, but because they had been badly maintained and documented. The only reason they had been accepted in the first place was due to political pressures in accepting American goodwill with gratitude. However, when one of the aircraft crashed and the other made a crash landing, the PAA had enough and decided to return them.

The Mi-17s we've acquired since then, and for that matter the Cobras, have all been refurbished by trusted companies and checked to ensure they were maintained up to PAA's standards throughout.

The reason for this is because over a hundred thousand Pakistani troops are at war with Pushtun tribesmen along the Afghan border.
What!? Pakistan Army is not at war with Pashtun tribesmen! Most Pashtun tribal leaders support the Army's operations in South Waziristan and Northern FATA/KP! What kind of reporting is this?
 
What is the precise number of Mi17s in service?

I'm reading alot of conflicting numbers.
 
What is the precise number of Mi17s in service?

I'm reading alot of conflicting numbers.

Pakistan already has over 80 Mi-17s,
this is not correct! its around 55-60

Kazan Helicopters

Mi-172 'Hip-H' - 3
- In service from 2008

- Note: A batch of 3 aircraft delivered during the second half of 2008. All are configured for the VVIP & presidential transportation role.

Mi-17-V5 'Hip-H' - 20
- Note: Some of the Mi-17 Hips previously believed to have been Mi-17-IV variants are now confirmed as being Kazan-built Mi-17V5s, delivered in the mid-2000s. Another 2 aircraft were delivered during the second half of 2008. Both are configured for the MedEvac & SAR role. It is believed that another 4 have been acquired on a temporary basis in late 2009 via the US Army TSMO (Threat Systems Management Office) at Ft. Bliss, TX to assist with anti-Taliban operations in-country.(returned)

Mil (Mil Moscow Helicopter Plant)

Mi-17-1V 'Hip-H' - 34
- Note: As many as 32 Mi-17-1V models are reported to have been acquired in a large batch delivered between 2002 & 2008. A further 6 Mi-17 (Mi-8MTV-1) helicopters have been leased from the US Department of Defense for use in ongoing anti-Taliban operations in the Swat Valley, having been delivered in late June 2009. A batch of 12 Mi-17s were overhauled & refurbished with US funding in 2009, with another 12 to follow suit in 2010 & the remaining 10 at a later date. The most recent attrition losses have been on 5th August 2004 & 3rd July 2009, the latter resulting in 26 fatalities. Another loss occurred on 24th October 2009, during fighting in the Bajaur tribal region, causing 3 fatalities aboard the helicopter.

Mi-24V 'Hind-E'- 1
- Note: Captured ex-Afghan example believed to have been in recent use.

Mi-8T 'Hip-C' - 12
- Note: Type withdrawn from service during 1986.
 
The Pakistani army has a fleet of over 300 helicopters

here's another wrong figure!!!

180-200 of all types
 
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