The growing agitation of Pakistanis against USA

[FaujHistorian]

.....

Lets not predict the future and hope there is no war. I have no clue which country this is pointed at either.

.....

Dear

I say it over and over.

War is a be-ach, the biggest there is.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be ready for one.

Men prepare for war, because if they don't, they get annihilated.

We didn't fully prepare for 65 war, and guess what it became a crisis and Indians almost ran over Lahore.

We didn't prepare for the 71 war and guess what, it became a crisis and led to eventual destruction of the country.

We didn't prepare for the war of 79, and guess what, it became a crisis and let to rise of militants, and weapons.

We didn't prepare of the Sichain war, and guess what we lost our region

We didn't prepare for the 2001 war, it became a crisis and and guess what are still losing 100s and 1000s of fellow Pakistanis.


I hate war,

But it doesn't mean we should NOT prepare for one. Only Eunuchs can afford ignoring the impending wars.


Unfortunately our region goes through a war roughly 6-10 years.

Anyone ignoring this terrible cycle must do it at his own peril.


And yes our army will fight, like they have done so in the past,

but you as a citizen (if you live in Pakistan) must be there to support our soldiers with anything that you can afford. We all should.

And here I say it sincerely


peace to you

 

[haviZsultan]

Dear

I say it over and over.

War is a be-ach, the biggest there is.

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be ready for one.

Men prepare for war, because if they don't, they get annihilated,

We didn't fully prepare for 65 war, and guess what it became a crisis and Indians almost ran over Lahore .

We didn't prepare for the 71 war and guess what, it became a crisis and led to eventual destruction of the country.

We didn't prepare for the war of 79, and guess what, it became a crisis and let to rise of militants, and weapons. .

We didn't prepare of the Sichain war, and guess what we lost our region

We didn't prepare for the 2001 war, it became a crisis and and guess what are still losing 100s and 1000s of fellow Pakistanis.


I hate war,

But it doesn't mean we should prepare for one. Only Eunuchs can afford ignoring the impending wars.


Our region goes through a war roughly 6-10 years.

Anyone ignoring this terrible cycle must do it at his own peril.


And yes our army will fight, like they have done so in the past,

but you as a citizen (if you live in Pakistan) must be there to support our soldiers with anything that you can afford. We all should.

And here I say it sincerely


peace to you

Don't worry about my commitment to the army. I am a pessimist and I have lost something called hope... but I support the army 200%. Criticism does not mean a loss of support though I hold I am incapable of striking dead Taliban senior leaders-that my friend is the military's job though we nationalists always promised support to the army.

We have an entire branch, military nationalists who are either servicemen or Nationalists who are extremely loyal to the Pakistan military-even some Mushy supporters. They still operate despite a few events and issues we had, infact all branches had that since our inception in 70's

 

[KS]

1) Nuke deal with India but refused to Pakistan

Abdul Qadeer Khan was not Indian. And second India has cash.

2) Davis kills 2 Pakistanis and escapes. There is no proof of Afia being a terrorist and still in jail

US penal code does not have the concept of blood money while the Pakistani penal code has. Why blame US for following Sharia tenets of blood money ?

3) Fazlullah hiding in Kunar. Faqir Mohammed's (Ex-Bajaur Chief's) bases in Afghanistan.

And Haqqani in North Waziristan and the Quetta Shura well in Quetta.

4) US refusal to condemn India for the Siachen incursion but raising an outcry on the Kargil one which was made by fauji's after the Siachen debacle when they took 1000 miles of our land.

US did not do anything. It was Nawaz who ran to Washington to plead US to stop India from crossing the LoC.

5) USA's offer to sell better quality F16's to India compared to what they sold us.

Because we pay them money.

6) Framing of Pakistani innocents in the name of terrorism-Seen it, researched it.

Blame your Army/ISI/politicians for it.

7) Maltreatment of Pakistanis in airports and hounding of Pakistani political Organizations in north America. Even secular ones. Yes-this is the only thing they are good at.

Does it have anything at all to do with London tube bombings, Faisal Shehzad plot, OBL being found in Pakistan etc ? Anything remote ?

8) Support for dictators in Pakistani land. 3 major ones had their backing. Zia was the one who Islamicized Pakistan with their blessing in case you did not notice.

Pakistanis themselves dont like democracy and call it democrazy. They still praise Ayub and Musharraf for the good economic progress they brought.

11) Pakistan counting on US support and not getting any in 1971. Weak point? Leave that then. I think it is too.But consider the rest.

Rest, such as ?

12) Add to this the Indian nuclear test smiling Buddha in 74 being ignored by the US while our military and economy being sanctioned.

The whole NSG cartel was formed because of our test and we were in a nuclear apartheid for about 30 years before the Indo-US nuclear deal was signed.

13) Add to this the framing of Kashmiri activist Syed Ghulam Nabi Fai in a false case as an ISI agent in another attempt to malign ISI

Fai was a dumb activist. They got Al-capone for tax evasion and Fai for fraudulent handling of funds

Bottom point - You are their ally (fancy word for part client state) while we are their partners. There is going to be a difference in how we are treated.

 

[haviZsultan]

Abdul Qadeer Khan was not Indian. And second India has cash.

Well, P. K. Iyengar and Gopal Bewoor were Indians and they conducted a test in 74. I don't remember any sanctions then or was American papa too busy then? Sounds and smells like treason to Pakistan. Qadeer is no reason to keep Pakistan away from peaceful nuclear technology.

US penal code does not have the concept of blood money while the Pakistani penal code has. Why blame US for following Sharia tenets of blood money ?

The flaw was in our system which was exploited. It does not mean we are to blame. Afia was framed falsely, Davis was freed after killing 2 Pakistanis. Proves there is no justice for the Americans and unrighteous one for Pakistanis who can be killed for any reason or on any pretext. The Islamist penal code is rubbish anyway.

And Haqqani in North Waziristan and the Quetta Shura well in Quetta.

Its their job to deal with them as a superpower. They act like crybabies instead. They have drones too in case you didn't notice to kill them. We don't have anything in Afghanistan.

US did not do anything. It was Nawaz who ran to Washington to plead US to stop India from crossing the LoC.

Rubbish, US promoted and supported the Indian line of thinking.

Because we pay them money.

We can pay them too.

Blame your Army/ISI/politicians for it.

I would rather blame Indians like you. I am aware of the reality and have seen what you have been up to and how you guys have been courting the Americans. It will never be permanent cauz they are quick to betray. Then India can cry all it wants.

Does it have anything at all to do with London tube bombings, Faisal Shehzad plot, OBL being found in Pakistan etc ? Anything remote ?

No. An idiot has a brain too. It has to do with a lack of brains and a special kind of idiot with his face stuck in his bum. If thats what US is then fine. The acts of ordinary terrorists just because they were Pakistani mean nothing. Davis killed 2 ***** and that Briton was found with explosives in his car.

Pakistanis themselves dont like democracy and call it democrazy. They still praise Ayub and Musharraf for the good economic progress they brought.

Thats why we kicked Musharraf and every dictator out eventually. This forum is dominated by the military folks and some of them have sympathies with dictators. Most don't and are realizing the damage these people did. The issue is with US supporting anyone who sells himself to them.

Rest, such as ?

Get out of your cot, little baby. Rest of the points.

The whole NSG cartel was formed because of our test and we were in a nuclear apartheid for about 30 years before the Indo-US nuclear deal was signed.

With no concern about past Indian proliferation and pilfering of Canadian technology... to them you go running the moment you want baba America to do something for you. From them you steal technology.

Fai was a dumb activist. They got Al-capone for tax evasion and Fai for fraudulent handling of funds

They claimed he was from an agency-this comes in maligning of ISI/Pakistan.

Bottom point - You are their ally (fancy word for part client state) while we are their partners. There is going to be a difference in how we are treated.

Thanks for being truthful, much appreciated.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Well, P. K. Iyengar and Gopal Bewoor were Indians and they conducted a test in 74. I don't remember any sanctions then or was American papa too busy then? .....

Not to rehash old stuff that has already been discussed.

Indians too were put under sanctions whenver they conducted tests.

It is just that being Commie-Russian clients, they didn't feel the pinch of American sanctions.

We on the other hand did because we were getting money and weapons and training from USA.

Things have been changing for the last decade or so,


Now Indians are slowly getting in the net of American policies via their weapon systems.

Watch it in future.

If and when Indians do anything to make Uncle Sam unhappy (like exploding another nuke), the sanctions will be back on.

The kill switches in all the American hardware will be switched on too


And then you will see Indians will feel the much bigger impact than what Pakistan has ever felt.


So please see and analyze things in their proper context because otherwise your analysis will produce incorrect or misleading results.


Thank you


p.s. Then Indians will realize that Uncle Sam has rules that are a lot different than the ones of Russians.

 

[Contrarian]

Fauji the GoI knows full well what weaponry they buy from US and what they let go. They are also aware of the results that sanctions would have on India.

It is for that reason that GoI only purchases peripheral equipments from US. Not the leading edge of our attack platforms like the MRCA. It is not for no reason that India is not buying nuclear plants from USA despite tremendous pressure from them. Or that agreements like cismoa and Lsa have not been signed that Pakistan signed decades back.

Lastly our relationship with the world is a lot different than Pakistans. Putting sanctions on us today would mean a world of problems for the west. And while we may not be immune to sanctions like china is today by virtue of its trade...we are trying to achieve that and by no means are we inconsequential even now.

As I said, please credit Indian policy planners with enough vision and foresight to know at least the obvious.
There is only one rule that Indian diplomacy stands by : there are no permanent friends or enemies..only permanent interests.

We don't have all weather allies or higher than Himalayas fealty to anyone. India goes where it finds interest..India left Iran for nuclear deal and denied USA nuclear power contracts. I hope you see a pattern here.

 

[FaujHistorian]

....
Fauji the GoI knows full well what weaponry they buy from US and what they let go. They are also aware of the results that sanctions would have on India.

It is for that reason that GoI only purchases peripheral equipments from US. Not the leading edge of our attack platforms like the MRCA. It is not for no reason that India is not buying nuclear plants from USA despite tremendous pressure from them. Or that agreements like cismoa and Lsa have not been signed that Pakistan signed decades back.

Lastly our relationship with the world is a lot different than Pakistans. Putting sanctions on us today would mean a world of problems for the west. And while we may not be immune to sanctions like china is today by virtue of its trade...we are trying to achieve that and by no means are we inconsequential even now.

As I said, please credit Indian policy planners with enough vision and foresight to know at least the obvious.
There is only one rule that Indian diplomacy stands by : there are no permanent friends or enemies..only permanent interests.

We don't have all weather allies or higher than Himalayas fealty to anyone. India goes where it finds interest..India left Iran for nuclear deal and denied USA nuclear power contracts. I hope you see a pattern here.

Good Analysis.


Just to add, that India and Pakistan both are in the same boat. We belong to the same region and the similar history and many commonalities in our culture too.

Thus our governments and our militaries get treated the same way.

The difference is in our common peoples' approach and perception.


Many Pakistanis intellectuals are hell bent on committing national suicide (But we have sizable section of the society who is sane and positive)

While
Indian intellectuals are brimming with pride and nationalism, and thus project positive image in their own minds regardless of how world treats them. This in turn has positive impact on the world too.



Case in point.


Indian military cooperates with the US military. Indian posters are filled with pride and chest thumping.


Pakistani military cooperates with the US military,
---- Indian posters are filled with sorrow and totally dejected
---- Pakistani posters are filled with sorrow and totally dejected and suicidal


So you see the pattern? you see the difference in perception? even though both of our governments and militaries get treated the same way by our "favorite" Uncle Sam.


Sane Pakistanis too do not believe in permanent friendships and enemies only permanent interests. And we do not have friendships higher than himalayas, unless one of our commie socialist news rag is trying to fool our people.



peace

 

[haviZsultan]

Now Indians are slowly getting in the net of American policies via their weapon systems.

Watch it in future.

If and when Indians do anything to make Uncle Sam unhappy (like exploding another nuke), the sanctions will be back on.

The kill switches in all the American hardware will be switched on too

I do not share the optimism because of the cases I have seen and the work on the ground I have done for Pakistan and how callous our government is to its own nations interests but I sure do hope the bold part happens. I don't know if this would indeed be the reaction but I sure hope it is.

 

[FaujHistorian]

I do not share the optimism because of the cases I have seen and the work on the ground I have done for Pakistan and how callous our government is to its own nations interests but I sure do hope the bold part happens. I don't know if this would indeed be the reaction but I sure hope it is.

My dear we are talking about American's view and policies towards anyone doing nukie explosions or developing weapons.

We are NOT talking about Pak gov or Indian gov's policies here.


Just see how Americans reacted towards South Korean (an ally with much bigger trade and military links than India) when they found out about South Korean nukie business. Americans forced them to declare all of their nuclear activities and then took away everything they felt could be used by South Korea to make a nuclear device,.

Just see how Ameicans reacted towards South Africa (an ally with much bigger military links than India) when they found out about South African nukie business. In fact American came in and took away all of South African nuclear equipment and material.

Just see how Americans dealt with Kazakhstan's nuclear material. FYI they took away every iota of it and stored it somewhere in America.


These few examples clearly show how American will react to any future explosions by India, pakistan, iran, and Timbuktu.

I hope you understand it now.

The problem with many Pakistani intellectuals is that they pick one example or two and forget to look at other examples and other regions to formulate a coherent picture.

It is almost like doing 5th grade elementary school analysis when you need to have a graduate school thesis to understand an issue that is critical for Pakistan's longer term prosperity and even long term survival.

We fail to do controlled studies and instead use rumors, and false assumptions to make up our opinions. No wonder we go from one $hity crisis to the next. Then we come up with constipated conspiracy theories about ourselves and about others.

All the while refusing to accept that our analysis and our assumptions were faulty to begin with and that resulted in bad and ignorant policies.



peace

 

[KS]

Now Indians are slowly getting in the net of American policies via their weapon systems.

Watch it in future.

If and when Indians do anything to make Uncle Sam unhappy (like exploding another nuke), the sanctions will be back on.

The kill switches in all the American hardware will be switched on too

I think India knows too well the unreliability of the US arms policies.

That is one of the main reasons why we have desisted from dealing with them for front line combat systems that are prone to sanctions like fighters. Piecemeal force multipliers like the P-8Is or C-130s are the maximum we are going to deal with them.

Dont go by the dollar value of the items we are getting from them. See where they fit in the combat doctrine.

I think you should be a little more charitable to the Indian bureaucracy/ diplomats regarding that.

Our main weapon suppliers in the forseeable future would be Russia, Israel and France.

And you can also see this in the way we have went about signing nuclear deals. We have gone ahead and signed with Russia, France, Canada, Mongolia, Namibia, Kazakstan and talks are on progress with South Korea, Japan, Australia. But we have NOT yet signed with USA. If our interests are not met, USA or not, does not matter.

 

[KS]

Well, P. K. Iyengar and Gopal Bewoor were Indians and they conducted a test in 74. I don't remember any sanctions then or was American papa too busy then? Sounds and smells like treason to Pakistan. Qadeer is no reason to keep Pakistan away from peaceful nuclear technology.

I think Fauji answered this pat very well.

BTW get a new dictionary and look up the meaning of the word treason.

What AQ Kahn did was treason, not what the US did.

The flaw was in our system which was exploited. It does not mean we are to blame. Afia was framed falsely, Davis was freed after killing 2 Pakistanis. Proves there is no justice for the Americans and unrighteous one for Pakistanis who can be killed for any reason or on any pretext. The Islamist penal code is rubbish anyway.

You are to be blamed for the flaw in your system. Congolese would not take blame for the flaw in your system. What rubbbish.

Its their job to deal with them as a superpower. They act like crybabies instead. They have drones too in case you didn't notice to kill them. We don't have anything in Afghanistan.

Is the lack of technology or will on Pakistan's part a fault of US ?

Invest a billion dollars, develop a drone and then you can play cowboys and aliens too.

Rubbish, US promoted and supported the Indian line of thinking.

Nothing to reply in this case. You perhaps need to read what your own generals and air commodores are talking of Kargil

We can pay them too.

Is that why the JF-17s are being acquired on soft loans ?

I would rather blame Indians like you. I am aware of the reality and have seen what you have been up to and how you guys have been courting the Americans. It will never be permanent cauz they are quick to betray. Then India can cry all it wants.

India is not pakistan. And it does not matter you blame me or not. I give zero fucks. It is Pakistani citizens who were caught and packeed off to Gunatanamo for dollars, not Indians.

No. An idiot has a brain too. It has to do with a lack of brains and a special kind of idiot with his face stuck in his bum. If thats what US is then fine. The acts of ordinary terrorists just because they were Pakistani mean nothing. Davis killed 2 ***** and that Briton was found with explosives in his car.

Fact is - Pakistani terrorists or terrorists trained in Pakistan were caught all over the world. And the world is careful about letting in Pakistanis.

read this - Apparently ‘Pakistani’ in French means ‘terrorist’ – The Express Tribune Blog

Thats why we kicked Musharraf and every dictator out eventually. This forum is dominated by the military folks and some of them have sympathies with dictators. Most don't and are realizing the damage these people did. The issue is with US supporting anyone who sells himself to them.

US looks after its interests. Pakistan should look after its own. Dont blame the faults of Pakistanis on US.

With no concern about past Indian proliferation and pilfering of Canadian technology... to them you go running the moment you want baba America to do something for you. From them you steal technology.

Do I smell a smoking bum here? Call that whatever you will. Does not change the fact that India is looked in a different way from Pakistan. Bottom line - we get the things we want, you dont. How you interpret it matters nilch.

And as a "researcher" you must know actually we have not yet signed the nuclear deal with USA. We have gone ahead and signed with Russia, France, Canada, Mongolia, Namibia, Kazakstan and talks are on progress with South Korea, Japan, Australia.

They claimed he was from an agency-this comes in maligning of ISI/Pakistan.

Well Fai being a dumb guy gave a chance to malign ISI. ISI should hire more competent guys in the future.

 

[Contrarian]

Good Analysis.


Just to add, that India and Pakistan both are in the same boat. We belong to the same region and the similar history and many commonalities in our culture too.

Thus our governments and our militaries get treated the same way.

The difference is in our common peoples' approach and perception.


Many Pakistanis intellectuals are hell bent on committing national suicide (But we have sizable section of the society who is sane and positive)

While
Indian intellectuals are brimming with pride and nationalism, and thus project positive image in their own minds regardless of how world treats them. This in turn has positive impact on the world too.



Case in point.


Indian military cooperates with the US military. Indian posters are filled with pride and chest thumping.


Pakistani military cooperates with the US military,
---- Indian posters are filled with sorrow and totally dejected
---- Pakistani posters are filled with sorrow and totally dejected and suicidal


So you see the pattern? you see the difference in perception? even though both of our governments and militaries get treated the same way by our "favorite" Uncle Sam.


Sane Pakistanis too do not believe in permanent friendships and enemies only permanent interests. And we do not have friendships higher than himalayas, unless one of our commie socialist news rag is trying to fool our people.



peace

Wrong line of thought Fauji. Indian posters feel dejected. They are not the policy planners. Infact if we were to take the opinions of majority of Indian posters on this forum, India would have declared war on Pakistan every day of the week.

The GoI consists of professionals. And they are quite competent when it comes to foreign policy. India knows full well that USA will continue to have relations with Pakistan - it is a necessity not an option.

The problem that GoI has is that it does not want USA to subsidize or gift arms to Pakistan. Pakistan has not really suffered the bread vs guns problem till 2005-6. Till then it was free arms whenever Pakistan wanted them. You have to wonder that Pakistan has a military that is far above its economic weight. Yet Pakistan's developmental programs did not suffer till 2005-6. Something has to give, and that is what GoI wants.

No free arms, no EDA for MNNA(Pakistan), let Pakistan pay to play.

As far as what India itself wants, we are under no illusion of our own size and weight. India is too big too be dependent or be an 'ally' of US. Infact India is not any nation's ally. GoI is not under any folly of friendship with US or UK or Russia.

Our actions would consistently seem to be a 'sell out' to one nation or the other at different points of time, GoI looks out for the best Indian interests, wherever they can be best obtained.

 

[haviZsultan]

I think Fauji answered this pat very well.

BTW get a new dictionary and look up the meaning of the word treason.

What AQ Kahn did was treason, not what the US did.

I respect Fauj deeply as he provides an alternative view and makes this site rich as a result but that does not mean I have to agree with him on the foreign policy front. My government has made mistakes but this unbalanced and unnatural relationship is indeed a part of the issue.

AQ Khan did what he was ordered by Bhutto. Furthermore we had no pact with the US and never signed NPT just like India. Those people I mentioned were also involved in nuclear proliferation. They were Indians. Canada sanctioned India in 74 but US turned a blind eye.

You are to be blamed for the flaw in your system. Congolese would not take blame for the flaw in your system. What rubbbish.

Indeed. But an injustice was committed. We liberals will fight these ancient laws that oppose the system of justice. Blood money was just a ruse to get him out. If it did not exist something else would come up.

Is the lack of technology or will on Pakistan's part a fault of US ?

All of the above. US is responsible for ignoring an allies valid interests.

Invest a billion dollars, develop a drone and then you can play cowboys and aliens too.

What is your purpose here, CENTCOM should be doing this?

Nothing to reply in this case. You perhaps need to read what your own generals and air commodores are talking of Kargil

War-mongering is a habit of those across the border as I noticed during Samjhauta. You blamed ISI only to be proven liars. It destroys credibility.

Is that why the JF-17s are being acquired on soft loans ?

Pakistan was ready for the nuke deal:
Pakistan pushes US for nuclear technology deal | World news | guardian.co.uk

It means we could afford it.

Also an interesting qoute from the future of Pakistan (Steven P Cohen):

Twenty-five years ago before it went Nuclear, Pakistan offered to abandon its nuclear program if US were to provide a security guarantee that included protection from an attack by India

@CENTCOM and his back-stabbing nation should ask why they question our possession of nukes then and demand non-proliferation. Maybe we should give nukes to Iran... how about it? You are mistreating us anyway?

India is not pakistan. And it does not matter you blame me or not. I give zero fucks. It is Pakistani citizens who were caught and packeed off to Gunatanamo for dollars, not Indians.

A lot of Indian citizens were caught too. Toronto 18 plot had Indians too though my research indicated that plot was a lie, a hoax. There is something seriously wrong with it. In either case Samjhauta was by Indians too. It is

Fact is - Pakistani terrorists or terrorists trained in Pakistan were caught all over the world. And the world is careful about letting in Pakistanis.

Congratulate those Wahabi bastards for that. They spawned terror and are now threatening a nation that was always non-religious and meant to be secular. In either case it is the responsibility of Pakistan to challenge this and take this up. Government is supposed to protect its people.

US looks after its interests. Pakistan should look after its own. Dont blame the faults of Pakistanis on US.

Are you USA's spokesperson. I am pointing out what is wrong so that Pakistan can look after its interests and knows what questions to ask.

Do I smell a smoking bum here? Call that whatever you will. Does not change the fact that India is looked in a different way from Pakistan. Bottom line - we get the things we want, you dont. How you interpret it matters nilch.

Policy can change very, very quickly-both against India and USA.

And as a "researcher" you must know actually we have not yet signed the nuclear deal with USA. We have gone ahead and signed with Russia, France, Canada, Mongolia, Namibia, Kazakstan and talks are on progress with South Korea, Japan, Australia

.

Then what is this:

The US House of Representatives passed the bill on September 28, 2008.[12] Two days later, India and France inked a similar nuclear pact making France the first country to have such an agreement with India.[13] On October 1, 2008 the US Senate also approved the civilian nuclear agreement allowing India to purchase nuclear fuel and technology from the United States.[14][15] U.S. President, George W. Bush, signed the legislation on the Indo-US nuclear deal, approved by the U.S. Congress, into law, now called the United States-India Nuclear Cooperation Approval and Non-proliferation Enhancement Act, on October 8, 2008.[16] The agreement was signed by then Indian External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee and his counterpart then Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, on October 10.[17][18]

But the deal that was arguably the most dramatic of the past breakthroughs between India and the United States — a 2008 agreement on nuclear power — has increasingly been cited as proof that the US-India relationship has not lived up to its potential.

They already started working on a plant:

Post nuclear deal, first US reactor is bound for Gujarat

Well Fai being a dumb guy gave a chance to malign ISI. ISI should hire more competent guys in the future.

Fai, Afia... God knows how many more innocents are rotting in their jails. Pitiful people we are.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Wrong line of thought Fauji. Indian posters feel dejected. They are not the policy planners. Infact if we were to take the opinions of majority of Indian posters on this forum, India would have declared war on Pakistan every day of the week.

The GoI consists of professionals. And they are quite competent when it comes to foreign policy. India knows full well that USA will continue to have relations with Pakistan - it is a necessity not an option.

The problem that GoI has is that it does not want USA to subsidize or gift arms to Pakistan. Pakistan has not really suffered the bread vs guns problem till 2005-6. Till then it was free arms whenever Pakistan wanted them. You have to wonder that Pakistan has a military that is far above its economic weight. Yet Pakistan's developmental programs did not suffer till 2005-6. Something has to give, and that is what GoI wants.

No free arms, no EDA for MNNA(Pakistan), let Pakistan pay to play.

As far as what India itself wants, we are under no illusion of our own size and weight. India is too big too be dependent or be an 'ally' of US. Infact India is not any nation's ally. GoI is not under any folly of friendship with US or UK or Russia.

Our actions would consistently seem to be a 'sell out' to one nation or the other at different points of time, GoI looks out for the best Indian interests, wherever they can be best obtained.

Again my dear Sir,

GOI is professional but your post is yet another example of "chalta maal" 5th grade sarkari school analysis of a very complex geo-strategic and global-economic picture.


Americans are not so "chunnu Munnu" kids that they will go around the world distributing free goodies in the form of F-16s and cobras. And they are not some chunnu munnu kiddos that they will stop giving these things out because some beautiful Indian Miss universe goes and sleeps with some Americans. These things are way beyond cheap TV talk shows so please read up before commenting like a street Mullah and Ayatullah from Pakistan.

Here. I'll help you a bit, but you ought to study a lot more to understand it at your own. Thank you.


Indians should know that the call centers in Dilli, or software houses in Bangaluru must provide the services at the cut throat prices with the best possible quality. Otherwise the outsourcing organization will pick up their tents and place them in Philippines or anywhere else they could find it cheaper even back home in the hills of Tennessee.


US government drives even harder bargains with its allies.

Such is the nature of American deals. Pakistan is no different than any other ally of allies around the world including Turkey, Egypt, Jordan, UK, Germany, Italy, S.Korea, Japan and the list goes on.


And if you please get out of the 5th grade sarkari school book or the paisa Akhbar TV talk show, you will realize that USA got really important military service contracts from Pakistan and paid it with cash, and weapons, or anything Pakistani military contractors asked for.


So leave it this al-cheapo attacks on Pakistan at home.

Indians are just another contractors for USA just like Pakistan or S.Korea, or China, or Japan, or Germany, or Phillipines, and the list goes on.

No need to be pompous @rse critic of Pakistan. Please!


Thank you

 

[KS]

Thus our governments and our militaries get treated the same way.

In one word - No.

While
Indian intellectuals are brimming with pride and nationalism, and thus project positive image in their own minds regardless of how world treats them. This in turn has positive impact on the world too.



Case in point.


Indian military cooperates with the US military. Indian posters are filled with pride and chest thumping.


Pakistani military cooperates with the US military,
---- Indian posters are filled with sorrow and totally dejected
---- Pakistani posters are filled with sorrow and totally dejected and suicidal


So you see the pattern? you see the difference in perception? even though both of our governments and militaries get treated the same way by our "favorite" Uncle Sam.

Seriously is this how shallow the analysis is ?

Indian military does not "co-operate" with US mil anywhere. The have joint training exercises especially in Special forces where they have a tremendous amount of expertise and in recent times COIN ops where Indian Ar,y has significant expertise. Ofcouse that is a good news and must be welcomes. Same goes to Pakistanis who are justifiably happy when there are joint exercises or such.

The pakistani posters are only sad when it comes to co-op in real war - against Taliban or their proxies. That co-op in real war, Indians dont even do.


Lets take the nuclear deal since it is being spoken about :

India decided to go ahead with the Iran-Pak-India pipeline and we are immediately cajoled out of it with the civilian nuclear deal. This being a good bargain obviously we come out of the IPI deal and it becomes IP deal.

Pakistan decided to go ahead with the deal US just gives veiled threats not to go ahead and presses its proxy Saudi to dissuade pakistan from it. Furthermore some available fundng from international banks are cut off and pakistan is left in the lurch.

Now do you see a difference on how the same thing elicits different response from US ?

Indians are just another contractors for USA just like Pakistan or S.Korea, or China, or Japan, or Germany, or Phillipines, and the list goes on.

See this is what I referred to in an earlier post - you are their allies and we are their partners

And if you think US is honeymooning with India because of call centers in Delhi and software houses in Bengaluru, then you need to think again.