The greatest threat to America’s national security is hiding in plain sight: China is the real enemy

[Genesis]

Understood, we are talking about a transition period, where this is improving, but historically has been a major problem. If IP protection continues to improve, I promise to stop complaining about it. But it's still a problem.

I think what the problem is America never had a China, or even the world never had a China like situation in an information/social media age.

Japan and America both copied, but those days information spread slow and America was still dominating the manufacturing sector, so while Japan held a considerable capability it couldn't produce everything.

China could produce everything, have every section of a supply chain and have both the technical know how and the capital to fund it. This gives China a great advantage that the others didn't have, while also forcing China's hand by not being able to charge the price that other prestigious developed country could that can actually sustain a innovative company.

The social media factor obviously magnified the problem beyond proportion, also a problem we previously didn't have.


IP protection isn't so much in transition(it is) as it is different than America. I think what needs to happen is an international body that regulates all IPs from all countries. Right now American IPs can be protected, IF they register at the same time in China as in America. Then anyone in China can be prosecuted to the fullest extent of their imagination, by the IP holder.

This is one of the reasons I think TPP without China is useless, those other countries have either negligible ability to "steal" IP, while the rest like Japan don't need this law anyways.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

Its not a conspiracy theory. Just check out Libyan Islamic Fighting Group in Libya that the US helped with six month of NATO bombing. A group that the US state department blacklisted as an al-Qaeda affiliate. And look up al Nusra Front in Syria that the US is now touting as a moderate rebel group.

In other words, no proof.

If you think Europe isn't bending over backwards for the US. This is just one example.
Evo Morales grounding incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident

Are you aware that all of those countries are NATO members, and that Edward Snowden is a known traitor to the US? Why would Europe have cooperated with Morales, when Snowden's leak damaged them as well?

If not resources why did the US target Iraq for 25 years ? As I said they misjudged the situation in Iraq that includes the oil.

I will admit that I still don't fully understand why the Iraq War of 2003 happened, but I can easily rule out the resources explanation. If we were after the resources, why don't our oil companies monopolize the drilling in Iraq today? Why would the US have allowed Russian, European, and Asian drillers to obtain the majority of the drilling rights?

You appear to be a fairly reasonable person. I'm sure if you think all of these elements through, you will see how disconnected they are from reality.

IP protection isn't so much in transition(it is) as it is different than America. I think what needs to happen is an international body that regulates all IPs from all countries. Right now American IPs can be protected, IF they register at the same time in China as in America. Then anyone in China can be prosecuted to the fullest extent of their imagination, by the IP holder.

I don't see what is so objectionable about the American system. If you register your IP, you have protection through the courts, and can be awarded damages based on profits lost. In China, let's be honest: the judiciary is not independent. If you are a non-Chinese IP holder, you will not receive equal treatment under the law. And even if one can win a case in Chinese court, the damages awarded are insignificant, and in no way a deterrent against future theft. And we haven't even touched cases where the CCP decides that because an industry is "strategic," Chinese companies will be immune to prosecution for IP theft.

Compare with the US, where the courts are independent, impartial, and will treat foreigners equally under the law.

If China's judiciary actually becomes impartial and professional, and if "the fullest extent" becomes something more than a slap on the wrist, then there's no reason for us to complain. But stealing IP and then taunting us to sue you in your biased, ineffective courts is not going to create comity. And that's why China isn't ready for TPP. The way China is now, it will steal IP if it's in TPP, and it will steal IP if it's outside of TPP, so what's the incentive to include China?

China is getting better, but it's not good. Not yet.

 

[BigDaddyWatch]

In other words, no proof.


Are you aware that all of those countries are NATO members, and that Edward Snowden is a known traitor to the US? Why would Europe have cooperated with Morales, when Snowden's leak damaged them as well?



I will admit that I still don't fully understand why the Iraq War of 2003 happened, but I can easily rule out the resources explanation. If we were after the resources, why don't our oil companies monopolize the drilling in Iraq today? Why would the US have allowed Russian, European, and Asian drillers to obtain the majority of the drilling rights?

You appear to be a fairly reasonable person. I'm sure if you think all of these elements through, you will see how disconnected they are from reality.

They wanted to create Western friendly regimes after the regime change wars in those countries that would be more incline to do business with the west rather than lets say China. But instead of that they got chaos and anarchy in those countries ie Libya and Iraq. And in the case of Iraq there was the issue of Iranian influence that they didn't see coming. So no oil contracts for them despite the wars.

Snowden did Europe a great favour. Thanks to him we know the extend of the US spying on Europe. I don't think the NATO charter includes handing over spies and traitors.

The US and her NATO allies was the air force for the LIFG in their war against Ghadaffi back in 2011. And in Syria the al Nusra Front is now the West's new darling in the fight against al-Assad.

 

[Götterdämmerung]

They wanted to create Western friendly regimes after the regime change wars in those countries that would be more incline to do business with the west rather than lets say China. But instead of that they got chaos and anarchy in those countries ie Libya and Iraq. And in the case of Iraq there was the issue of Iranian influence that they didn't see coming. So no oil contracts for them despite the wars.

There is no such thing as "Western friendly". What that in fact means is US friendly aka vassal of the US. Guess what would happen, if Germany suddenly decides to act like a real souvereign country?

Remember, Operation Gladio has never died.

This is one of the reasons I think TPP without China is useless, those other countries have either negligible ability to "steal" IP, while the rest like Japan don't need this law anyways.

Anyone who agrees to the TPP will one day be treated as a traitor in history.

 

[Genesis]

I don't see what is so objectionable about the American system. If you register your IP, you have protection through the courts, and can be awarded damages based on profits lost. In China, let's be honest: the judiciary is not independent. If you are a non-Chinese IP holder, you will not receive equal treatment under the law.

Objectionable? I don't know, but it's our house, and our house, our rules. The Chinese system, works much the same way, you just have to let us know you want to stay, or else we may rent that room to someone else.

Judiciary may not be independent, but in most cases it doesn't really matter. As long as the government doesn't deem it to be of strategic importance they won't interfere.

As to the rest, Chinese do have home court advantage, as does US companies in the US.

And even if one can win a case in Chinese court, the damages awarded are insignificant, and in no way a deterrent against future theft. And we haven't even touched cases where the CCP decides that because an industry is "strategic," Chinese companies will be immune to prosecution for IP theft.

Compare with the US, where the courts are independent, impartial, and will treat foreigners equally under the law.

Independent, but judges are people just like they are in China. Again the government won't interfere unless they consider it important. You can take that however you like.

Just like America there are no laws in China that says foreigners will be discriminated against. Any human factors in the case gives Chinese the advantage in China, but also the advantage to you guys in America. We can far better exploit our system in our own yard, but the same is true for you.

The system doesn't work the same as in the US. We may feel, no death penalty for those guys that robbed our international students is an invitation to continuing killing our students. We however, didn't protest, our land your rules.

The law exist, the law will be used, it's not the place of a non Chinese to say how will or how it should work, just like it's none of our business what America does.

If China's judiciary actually becomes impartial and professional, and if "the fullest extent" becomes something more than a slap on the wrist, then there's no reason for us to complain. But stealing IP and then taunting us to sue you in your biased, ineffective courts is not going to create comity. And that's why China isn't ready for TPP. The way China is now, it will steal IP if it's in TPP, and it will steal IP if it's outside of TPP, so what's the incentive to include China?

China is getting better, but it's not good. Not yet.

Chinese judiciary is professional and about as impartial as their American counterparts, most of the time. If you are talking corruption and what not, that happens everywhere, in America it may not be money changing hands, but it very well could be, but there is no way any living human is not influenced one way or the other.

China to be included or not, isn't important, and I'm not taunting anyone, I must say, because you view our system as corrupt, inept, or worse, you don't even consider to play the game. I'm going to say this the nicest way I can, we are all adults here, the world isn't fair, you got your advantages, we got ours, if you can't win by decision, knock us out. Don't go to the judges. But you got to get in the ring first.

 

[jhungary]

No, it doesn't. What matters to foreign countries is whether or not you will attack them or your own instability will spill into their borders.



This is a shit analogy.

lol okay

no wonder people see Chinese rise as a threat, if other want to know why, I will just refer them to your comment said above.

Thank you and good night

 

[BHAN85]

The greatest threat to American people is USA deep state.

Remember 9/11 attacks and dont forget it.

USA gov is the greatest enemy of American people.

 

[TaiShang]

As it happens, the US regime and the media is on a total attack mode on China. Here is one latest example from the stock

I don't know who this is written for but any person even semi-literate in economics can see it as a total sham of article. It is riddled with misinformation, disinformation and muddle-headed analysis, but it does contribute to the dooms-day scenario that is being spread about China.

As a mouthpiece and apologist for the war policy of Washington, the media has to come up with a rational for "our enemies" attacking "us." This is a necessary ploy. In Iraq it was WMDs. In Afghanistan Al-Qaeda. But what about China? Why are they a threat?

Well they are becoming more aggression because their economy is about to tank due to excessive debt and massive bubbles that are about to pop. They therefore have to placate their "irritable" population with war games in the South China Sea, etc. to divert them away from their economy's collapse with "hyper-nationalism" and war. It is all part of the attempt to portray China as an unstable, aggressive force out to make trouble, and they're Communists to boot!

Truth is, this article mostly relates to the stock market which is not relevant to the total economy either in China or anywhere else. The SSE reached its' all time high of 6124 in 2008 and is now 4887. I believe it can soon set a new all time high but where it will stop is anybody's guess as most Chinese don't care about fundamentals as P/E rates or a company's net assets.

But a good example of sheer hostility that seems to be directed from a center: It cannot be just a coincidence that the US government and its media have suddenly ramp up their hostility toward China.

Besides, to understand that the US regime (not necessarily common folks which are not represented by the regime) sheer hostility to China, do not look all the way back in history, but just look at the Pivot. The Pivot is in fact just one step short of declaring war.

Yes, the U.S. Intelligence network, with their British, Aussie, and Cannuck minions and vassals are desperately trying to stoke "color revolution" and foment instability in China.

It is now or never.

The surge and momentum within China as an economic powerhouse is making the West extremely paranoid and edgy.

***

China economy: Why long-term investors need to steer clear

 

[jhungary]

They wanted to create Western friendly regimes after the regime change wars in those countries that would be more incline to do business with the west rather than lets say China. But instead of that they got chaos and anarchy in those countries ie Libya and Iraq. And in the case of Iraq there was the issue of Iranian influence that they didn't see coming. So no oil contracts for them despite the wars.

Snowden did Europe a great favour. Thanks to him we know the extend of the US spying on Europe. I don't think the NATO charter includes handing over spies and traitors.

The US and her NATO allies was the air force for the LIFG in their war against Ghadaffi back in 2011. And in Syria the al Nusra Front is now the West's new darling in the fight against al-Assad.

Just this post, I think @LeveragedBuyout is wasting his time on you

And I will tell you why.

They wanted to create Western friendly regimes after the regime change wars in those countries that would be more incline to do business with the west rather than lets say China. But instead of that they got chaos and anarchy in those countries ie Libya and Iraq. And in the case of Iraq there was the issue of Iranian influence that they didn't see coming. So no oil contracts for them despite the wars.

Regime Change CANNOT create a western friendly environment. Look at Iraq, indeed US and Alliance did a regime change, but can you see who the Iraq is favour with after the regime change??

It's not in the 70s and we are not bring in dictatorship, regime change only works in the 70s when revolution mentality is high and one man in charge of everything. It may work in some country in Africa or sub-Asia, but it will not work in the complicated Middle East as Warlords (emphasis on the plural) in charge of the country, because it can only bring a civil war into the fray, alas what US did in Afghanistan in the 70s and 80s, if US help in Afghanistan cannot make a favourable government to US in the 70s and 80s, what make you think they can today? and most certainly not in advance democracy such as Germany and EU.

Doing a coup is more complicated then you think.

And you do know Iraq and Iran was and still is sworn enemies, right??

Even tho Iranian is helping out the Iraqi to fight ISIS, you do know Iran are only helping in the region where shia Muslim were located, they won't help the sunni part of Iraq, I mean, they are more than gladly to kill sunni terrorist, but they don't help out on sunni part of the Iraqi city, which is a problem considering sunni Muslim make up about 40% of Iraqi population.

Snowden did Europe a great favour. Thanks to him we know the extend of the US spying on Europe. I don't think the NATO charter includes handing over spies and traitors.

This is the most stupidest or brainwashed statement I have ever seen.

Snowden did not tell the world anything, HE CONFIRMED what the world had expect

Before Snowden, we all know US have spy network in the world in cooperation of EU, Australia, New Zealand and Canada

The Echelon Global Surveillance system were in place during cold war and was disclosed publicly after the cold war ended, the world already knew the US is spying on the western world with the EU help long time before Snowden spill the bean, and it was an acceptable behaviour during cold war, and the world would expect to see a carry on program to continue the Five Eyes project. Just that this piece of information is classified until Snowden spill the beans and confirmed the project continuation.

Five Eyes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
ECHELON - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The US and her NATO allies was the air force for the LIFG in their war against Ghadaffi back in 2011. And in Syria the al Nusra Front is now the West's new darling in the fight against al-Assad

I actually laugh very hard on this comment.

To equate to your logic. Fighting a war against Gaddafi in Libya is equal to helping LIFG. Since LIFG is also fighting against Gaddafi. Then Iraqi government fighting the ISIS rebel is actually helping Kurd Independent fighter as ISIS also fight against the Kurd?

Or Can I say Assad fighting against FSA (Free Syrian Rebel) is fighting Assad's own Syrian government? Because FSA fights ISIL and Syria, by fighting FSA, Syria helped ISIL to strength their hold which on paper ISIL is fighting against the Syrian government.

On just a quick look, you know NOTHING about Middle Eastern power and policy, you do know there are different party and different faction in the middle east, and the amazing thing is they are all fighting with each other, it is not as simple as helping one equal to go against the other. Not like Helping Sham is fighting against the Government in Myanmar, it's just not that simple.

I would suggest you beef up middle eastern history before writing any more about the situation in the middle east, but meh, i just don't bother.

 

[TaiShang]

China asks US to stop surveillance of its territory | The BRICS Post

China asks US to stop spying activities after new Snowden leak - Technology Org

How can one trust a country of high-tech spies which shows the audacity of accusing others of spying?

U.S. Files Criminal Charges Against Chinese Officials Over Cyberspying : The Two-Way : NPR

 

[gambit]

Just this post, I think @LeveragedBuyout is wasting his time on you

It is always a hoot to watch Mr. Lev in action. His experience in finance gave him perspectives about international relations none of the Chinese on this forum do have. Pretty much spanked all these guys by hisself.

I would suggest you beef up middle eastern history before writing any more about the situation in the middle east, but meh, i just don't bother.

That requires reading AND thinking. You expect too much.

 

[TaiShang]

Ultra-nationalist US members are clueless in their firm belief in what they tell each other in their inner monologue. Fun to watch how they reinforce each other's convictions. Big applause.

The reality is that the US has demonstrated time and time again that its actions threaten China's national security. 1) Intervening in China's civil war and protecting the KMT on Taiwan. 2) Twice waging war on China's borders in Korea and Vietnam with the expressed purpose of "containing China." 3) Fomenting and supporting separatism in China's frontier regions such as Tibet and Xinjiang. 4) Constantly interfering in China's domestic affairs, encouraging and supporting sedition. 5) Dispatching its Navy and Air Force to monitor and surveil China's coastal waters. 6) Ringing China with a cordon sanitaire of military bases and alliances to hem China in and prevent it from exercising its legitimate sovereign rights.

China has not taken any of above actions towards the US and does not constitute any kind of national security threat to the US.

But one notices an apparent disillusionment among the US political elite.

On June 4, the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences in Beijing, published "United States Research Report (2015)” given at an academic seminar on the challenges of the United States' re-balancing strategy in the Asia-Pacific. Member of the National People's Congress, Fu Ying, Director of the NPC Foreign Affairs Committee, attended and made a speech.

Fu recalled her mid-May visit to the United States. The United States views on China are divided into pessimistic, optimistic and cautious (or anxious). Fu Ying exchanged views with Chinese scholars. She believes that there is deep disappointment in the United States about China, as "the realization that China's modernization would bring political reform" did not happen, and the Chinese version of "Gorbachev" did not appear. On the contrary, the success that China has achieved has enhanced its confidence that the path it has taken is irreversible.

Fu Ying believes that there is the need for more effective communications between China and the United States in order to reduce misunderstanding and misjudgment, while at the same time avoiding rhetoric and behavior that may provoke the other. Definitely, for China there is the need to more quickly adapt to its new power status and learn how to timely and clearly articulate its thoughts and intentions to the world.

傅瑩：中國版“戈爾巴喬夫”沒出現 讓美國很失望_大公資訊_大公網

 

[jhungary]

Ultra-nationalist US members are clueless in their firm belief in what they tell each other in their inner monologue. Fun to watch how they reinforce each other's convictions. Big applause.

The reality is that the US has demonstrated time and time again that its actions threaten China's national security. 1) Intervening in China's civil war and protecting the KMT on Taiwan. 2) Twice waging war on China's borders in Korea and Vietnam with the expressed purpose of "containing China." 3) Fomenting and supporting separatism in China's frontier regions such as Tibet and Xinjiang. 4) Constantly interfering in China's domestic affairs, encouraging and supporting sedition. 5) Dispatching its Navy and Air Force to monitor and surveil China's coastal waters. 6) Ringing China with a cordon sanitaire of military bases and alliances to hem China in and prevent it from exercising its legitimate sovereign rights.

You need a dictionary to look up what contribute as "NATIONAL SECURITY"

According to Oxford Dictionary

The safety of a nation against threats such as terrorism, war, or espionage: an imminent threat to national security

lol 2 war in Korea and Vietnam is undermining Chinese National Security?? Did China control Vietnam and Korea or there are something I don't know.

And lol, since when can China say anything that happened in a foreign soil, so US can't dock their ship in their own base and their own land In Guam without asking permission to Chinese First? Or should US give Guam to China??

If China want, they can negotiate with Mexico and Canada and stage PLA troop in both place to counter US, what US gonna do about it if and when this happen? Invade Mexico and Canada?

Lol if what you said is logical and valid, then anything happened in this world as long as it is regarding the United States will be an undermine to Chinese National Security, lol

American Tourist fart in Australia, bam, a threat to Chinese National Security
American plane land in Indonesia, bam, a threat to Chinese National Security

What you meant is national interest. not national security, you have no obligation nor right to maintain security in any foreign country.

 

[TaiShang]

US ultra-nationalist members are hilarious, indeed.

If a war that has been brought into a bordering nation B by a third party C has been undermining the security of A, then, it is a threat to national security of state A. How to define what constitutes national security is up to the individual nation, not Merriam Webster's. It can be an extended or limited meaning. What others think what national security constitutes is not relevant in nations' strategic calculations, not the least China's.

What a US tourist does in Australia, I do not know. Now matter what, it is a national security issue for Australia only; probably a non-traditional security issue related to climate change or air pollution.

In any case, and without going into much detail, the United States has been containing China since 1949 till today. It is only now that China has the capability to break this containment that the US starts to ask the question with a "?".

 

[BigDaddyWatch]

Regime Change CANNOT create a western friendly environment. Look at Iraq, indeed US and Alliance did a regime change, but can you see who the Iraq is favour with after the regime change??

It's not in the 70s and we are not bring in dictatorship, regime change only works in the 70s when revolution mentality is high and one man in charge of everything. It may work in some country in Africa or sub-Asia, but it will not work in the complicated Middle East as Warlords (emphasis on the plural) in charge of the country, because it can only bring a civil war into the fray, alas what US did in Afghanistan in the 70s and 80s, if US help in Afghanistan cannot make a favourable government to US in the 70s and 80s, what make you think they can today? and most certainly not in advance democracy such as Germany and EU.

Doing a coup is more complicated then you think.

And you do know Iraq and Iran was and still is sworn enemies, right??

Even tho Iranian is helping out the Iraqi to fight ISIS, you do know Iran are only helping in the region where shia Muslim were located, they won't help the sunni part of Iraq, I mean, they are more than gladly to kill sunni terrorist, but they don't help out on sunni part of the Iraqi city, which is a problem considering sunni Muslim make up about 40% of Iraqi population.

Not because of lack of trying to install a pro west regime. But it failed due to incompetency.

This is the most stupidest or brainwashed statement I have ever seen.

Snowden did not tell the world anything, HE CONFIRMED what the world had expect

Before Snowden, we all know US have spy network in the world in cooperation of EU, Australia, New Zealand and Canada

The Echelon Global Surveillance system were in place during cold war and was disclosed publicly after the cold war ended, the world already knew the US is spying on the western world with the EU help long time before Snowden spill the bean, and it was an acceptable behaviour during cold war, and the world would expect to see a carry on program to continue the Five Eyes project. Just that this piece of information is classified until Snowden spill the beans and confirmed the project continuation.

Five Eyes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
ECHELON - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You are ignorant about the outrage that the Snowden revelations has caused in Europe and elsewhere around world. Confirmation is an important thing you know. He has taken away the uncertainty.

I actually laugh very hard on this comment.

To equate to your logic. Fighting a war against Gaddafi in Libya is equal to helping LIFG. Since LIFG is also fighting against Gaddafi. Then Iraqi government fighting the ISIS rebel is actually helping Kurd Independent fighter as ISIS also fight against the Kurd?

Or Can I say Assad fighting against FSA (Free Syrian Rebel) is fighting Assad's own Syrian government? Because FSA fights ISIL and Syria, by fighting FSA, Syria helped ISIL to strength their hold which on paper ISIL is fighting against the Syrian government.

On just a quick look, you know NOTHING about Middle Eastern power and policy, you do know there are different party and different faction in the middle east, and the amazing thing is they are all fighting with each other, it is not as simple as helping one equal to go against the other. Not like Helping Sham is fighting against the Government in Myanmar, it's just not that simple.

I would suggest you beef up middle eastern history before writing any more about the situation in the middle east, but meh, i just don't bother

US policies has benefitted the Jihadist from Libya to Syria. And your logic is that US involvement has zero effect on the region of the Middle East. There is no reaction to the actions of America in the region. You can't or won't face up to the consequences of US policies in the Middle East.

Then again I remember your the guy that said that the US made money out of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Do you care to elaborate on that one?

It is always a hoot to watch Mr. Lev in action. His experience in finance gave him perspectives about international relations none of the Chinese on this forum do have. Pretty much spanked all these guys by hisself.


That requires reading AND thinking. You expect too much.

Ah, yes the mighty US economy. Can you care to explain why the US economy is in contraction and maybe even recession despite interest rate being at 0 ?