The Great Indian Ocean Game

[GURU DUTT]

A Chinese CBG will not be sent to the IOR to attack India in a China/India crisis only.

A much more likely situation will be in case of tensions between India and Pakistan and BD - I know that it is fetched to imagine a decently militarily strong BD but it can theoretically happen if the will was there.

Now, for the last time, there is no need for a Chinese CBG to ever pass A&N as they can just sail south of Australia and then swing east to approach southern or even eastern India.

The point that I am trying to make is that if China was to send 2 CBGs into the IOR to approach India that would tie up a lot of resources(most of the Navy and hundreds of land-based fighter aircraft) that India will find it hard to muster enough resources to deal with whatever situation it was facing and also protect all it's other borders.

In short, India will have to take into account the Chinese Navy for the first time in South Asian military situations.

You will not agree due to nationalism but facts are facts. A country that is 5 times richer and more industrially developed can do something like this against the weaker country.

well brother thing is chinese might have five times more money and power but we are not at there mercy we can fight and will give a very bloody nose to anyone who dares to attack us ...period

im not just driven by mationalism alone as you are ignoaring the facts on ground

as for china atking australia route well bro they will be exposed to wast open oceans withowt any substantial back up cover todays wars are faught on technology and by gods grace we are far better in this expect of warfare at least in this theater and are improoving and mordanizing owr armed forces fo no reason

boasting in your home is one thing and fighting a war in others territorry that too with an enemy who has better and almost same streanth in numbers is very different

as for bangladesh well its owr last concern pakistan can cause a few hik ups and thats that

we are not afraid of any body bro as owr economy is home driven we are a population of 1.3 billion with 65% being in less than 35 years age group stop thinking about india and think about your nation

It should be Pakistan Ocean or Indus Sea

realli but bhai why not you rename it then

 

[SrNair]

@sreekumar

Then you have no clue. Japanese advances ended long before the nuclear attacks. They were beaten back until they were left defending Okinawa, and had lost the Philippines altogether. They had already been driven out of Burma, and the entire Pacific Ocean.

You should not participate in threads and relate history which is fictitious.

sorry you are right.But IJN in WW2 is powerful than USN at initial stage.

 

[SrNair]

A Chinese CBG will not be sent to the IOR to attack India in a China/India crisis only.

A much more likely situation will be in case of tensions between India and Pakistan and BD - I know that it is fetched to imagine a decently militarily strong BD but it can theoretically happen if the will was there.

Now, for the last time, there is no need for a Chinese CBG to ever pass A&N as they can just sail south of Australia and then swing east to approach southern or even eastern India.

The point that I am trying to make is that if China was to send 2 CBGs into the IOR to approach India that would tie up a lot of resources(most of the Navy and hundreds of land-based fighter aircraft) that India will find it hard to muster enough resources to deal with whatever situation it was facing and also protect all it's other borders.

In short, India will have to take into account the Chinese Navy for the first time in South Asian military situations.

You will not agree due to nationalism but facts are facts. A country that is 5 times richer and more industrially developed can do something like this against the weaker country.

Well friend this is modern warfare era.TWO CBG take a vast sea route ,I dont think they are going to make it.IOR is our turf .5 times stronger gdp is in chinese homeland ,not going to work in IOR which is far from their main land. Andaman Island give us enough land for base and resources for IAF.Plus India CBG .I am not sure about chinese fleet.
Do you think China going to confront India for BD or pakistan?Well that is a suicidal move .Last time they give us enough warnings in 1999.That all ,situation change,time change .The only support for pakistan from China is weapons support that all.Well we dont use our military force against BD. even if BD provoke India because BD cant do nothing against India.

You think the CBGs will just sit there and take it up the backs*de?!

Those airfields can be targeted by cruise missiles fired from the escorts. Say 4 Type-55 cruisers and 4 Type-052D destroyers are with the 2 CBGs. They could have easily 1000 missiles, including 2-300 hundred cruise missiles ready for action.

And 2 CBGs(assuming 1 100, 000 tonne nuclear and 1 70-80,000 conventional) would have around 150 aircraft and that would include full-spec AWACs launched from catapults.

Seriously, stop being so nationalistic and try to think about this neutrally - China is 5 times larger than India GDP-wise and seems like it will stay that way in 2030. When there is such a power difference between countries then this kind of situation is possible.

Wowwww..what an imagination .First let them get a decent conventional ACC .then we can talk about it

 

[UKBengali]

Wowwww..what an imagination .First let them get a decent conventional ACC .then we can talk about it

China already has the Varyag. Everything, part from the hull, is built with domestic technology.

It has one of the world's largest shipbuilding industries and knocks out 8,000 tonne destroyers such as Type-052D like sausages.

China has built 3rd generation nuclear reactors for submarines and this technology can be readily modified for building nuclear super-carriers.

It has built it's own AWACs and fighters(J-11B and J-16 now come with indigenous WS-10A engines)

China has both the technology and the money to churn out aircraft carriers over the next few decades. It may not be quite as good as what the US will have, at least initially, but more than a match for the EU and Russia.

The problem with Indians is that, due to understandable nationalistic pride, they will not openly admit that China is a far more powerful country than India.

Why am I happy to see this? A strong China can only help BD develop both economically and militarily(after the scum Awami League are kicked out of power forever of course).

Last time they give us enough warnings in 1999.That all ,situation change,time change .The only support for pakistan from China is weapons support that all.

The China of 2030 will be in a completely different geopolitical landscape than the one of 1999.

It should have the largest economy and a military that would be near to or equivalent to the US, with the only US advantage being a stronger Navy.

China, by 2030, will be able to act with much less constraints than in 1999.

 

[Joe Shearer]

China already has the Varyag. Everything, part from the hull, is built with domestic technology.

It has one of the world's largest shipbuilding industries and knocks out 8,000 tonne destroyers such as Type-052D like sausages.

China has built 3rd generation nuclear reactors for submarines and this technology can be readily modified for building nuclear super-carriers.

It has built it's own AWACs and fighters(J-11B and J-16 now come with indigenous WS-10A engines)

China has both the technology and the money to churn out aircraft carriers over the next few decades. It may not be quite as good as what the US will have, at least initially, but more than a match for the EU and Russia.

The problem with Indians is that, due to understandable nationalistic pride, they will not openly admit that China is a far more powerful country than India.

Why am I happy to see this? A strong China can only help BD develop both economically and militarily(after the scum Awami League are kicked out of power forever of course).



The China of 2030 will be in a completely different geopolitical landscape than the one of 1999.

It should have the largest economy and a military that would be near to or equivalent to the US, with the only US advantage being a stronger Navy.

China, by 2030, will be able to act with much less constraints than in 1999.

O No!

Another Internet Bangladeshi. Where do they keep them outside duty hours?

 

[SrNair]

China already has the Varyag. Everything, part from the hull, is built with domestic technology.

It has one of the world's largest shipbuilding industries and knocks out 8,000 tonne destroyers such as Type-052D like sausages.

China has built 3rd generation nuclear reactors for submarines and this technology can be readily modified for building nuclear super-carriers.

It has built it's own AWACs and fighters(J-11B and J-16 now come with indigenous WS-10A engines)

China has both the technology and the money to churn out aircraft carriers over the next few decades. It may not be quite as good as what the US will have, at least initially, but more than a match for the EU and Russia.

The problem with Indians is that, due to understandable nationalistic pride, they will not openly admit that China is a far more powerful country than India.

Why am I happy to see this? A strong China can only help BD develop both economically and militarily(after the scum Awami League are kicked out of power forever of course).



The China of 2030 will be in a completely different geopolitical landscape than the one of 1999.

It should have the largest economy and a military that would be near to or equivalent to the US, with the only US advantage being a stronger Navy.

China, by 2030, will be able to act with much less constraints than in 1999.

Do you heard the story of a frog in old well?Your comment is like that.World sole military power that can project it formidable power to far shores is US .If you talk about USN ,then I will agree with you.
It is not about prediction.It is about reality.Chinese are far lag behind in the using ACC.Their Varyag floating casino is just a technology demonstrator,they themselves agreed that.So in that case
BD certificate is not need to China about their ACC.

We agreed that we are less powerful than China but attacking India is not like US attack Iraq.After all we are 4th most powerful military force and nation in the world.It is not nationalistic pride ,It is a fact that whole world agreed .So if you have capability to analysing,then analyse a war between 3rd most powerful nation and 4th most powerful nation in the a world.That is enough for fatal destruction of Asia and its prosperity.
So only measure China may take to counter India is arm Pakistan.In south Asia ,Pakistan is only country that can withstand Indian Military Force for a few days except nuclear weapons.
Well Bangladesh is not in the picture .We will show restraint even BD scratch India.Support of China for BD against India is something you can dream.Your past,present and future purely depend on your relation with India.
You only talk about China in 2030,you dont consider factors such as Japan in 2030,US in 2030,Vietnam in 2030 and India in 2030.If BD want to see 2030 ,then you must maintain a good relationship between India and other countries in South Asia.
I hope you can understand.

 

[Glorino]

UK Bengali must understand all countries in Asia is also growing economically'With economic rise just like Bangladesh buying 2 Submarines from China,other countries like Malaysia,Singapore have already inducted submarines.Likewise,Vietnam,South Korea,Indonesia,Autralia..............are all inducting new weapon systems.THINK AND ANALYSE

 

[FaujHistorian]

WHAAAT?

History being re-written from the ground up? @FaujHistorian , where art thou?

sorry mate.

Aur bhi gham hain
duniyan main PDF kay siwa

This thread is toast. Sorry to say.

SreeKumra has already won.

History stands defeated.

Peace

 

[scorpionx]

Japanese advancements ended after nuclear attack by US against Japan.that is history

No.Please read about the history of World War II.It is much more interesting and remarkably stunning than any fictional work piece The Japanese started receiving severe setbacks by the Australians in the Solomon Islands in the South West Pacific in 1942-43 itself. Please read why Gudalcanal was termed as the "starvation islands" by the Japanese.

While the allied fighters had little chances to win against the much superior and maneuverable "zeros",the Americans quickly learnt some vital lessons.The "Skip bombing techniques" and the B-25s and A-20s with delayed fuses made the end of Imperial Navy in 1943. Also,with the astonishing output of warships and fighter aircrafts by the Americans,the Japanese hardly had any chance to continue fighting for a longer duration.The Nuclear drop was merely a symbolic event when Japanese defeat in the World War II comes into discussion. It scarcely contributed anything to the American "victory" as such over the Japanese.Regards.

PS:Be aware of Mr.McArthur. After reading your post,he might resurrect from his grave and start haunting you.

 

[UKBengali]

UK Bengali must understand all countries in Asia is also growing economically'With economic rise just like Bangladesh buying 2 Submarines from China,other countries like Malaysia,Singapore have already inducted submarines.Likewise,Vietnam,South Korea,Indonesia,Autralia..............are all inducting new weapon systems.THINK AND ANALYSE

Thanks for the advice but I will ignore it.

All that counts is that China's RELATIVE power will increase.

Now, think and analyse that

then analyse a war between 3rd most powerful nation and 4th most powerful nation in the a world.

I am talking about a theoretical situation in 2030.

I would put 1. US ~ China >> 2. Russia > 3. India

It won't be 3rd versus 4th but 1st versus 3rd.

Just wait till 2030 and see how far India actually falls behind China by then. The gap will only grow between China and India and not decrease.

 

[SrNair]

Thanks for the advice but I will ignore it.

All that counts is that China's RELATIVE power will increase.

Now, think and analyse that




I am talking about a theoretical situation in 2030.

I would put 1. US ~ China >> 2. Russia > 3. India

It won't be 3rd versus 4th but 1st versus 3rd.

Just wait till 2030 and see how far India actually falls behind China by then. The gap will only grow between China and India and not decrease.

Still 1st vs 3rd is not like America vs Iraq , just think for a few seconds about that war scenario,I dont think russia can maintain 2nd position due to their contracting population .It is china not bangladesh get that power.And china cant lock horn with India over BD.. Like I earlier said BD and Bengalis is there only due to India and its power.If our defence industry is grow like now at 2030 we become self sufficent in high tech arms production.I am sure about it.And GOI has no other choice other than indigenious defence production.
I hope you can understand.

 

[UKBengali]

Still 1st vs 3rd is not like America vs Iraq , just think for a few seconds about that war scenario,I dont think russia can maintain 2nd position due to their contracting population .It is china not bangladesh get that power.And china cant lock horn with India over BD.. Like I earlier said BD and Bengalis is there only due to India and its power.If our defence industry is grow like now at 2030 we become self sufficent in high tech arms production.I am sure about it.And GOI has no other choice other than indigenious defence production.
I hope you can understand.

I never said that it would be like US versus Iraq but China would still be a far enough more powerful country that it's Navy can appreciably affect the military balance in South Asia.

As far as India becoming self-sufficient in arms production is concerned, I think that India can do it by 2030 in all areas apart from engines. You need to bear in mind that its equipment will still be a little behind(UK, France etc) by around a decade though, apart from nuclear SSNs which will be 2-3 decades behind.

 

[SrNair]

I never said that it would be like US versus Iraq but China would still be a far enough more powerful country that it's Navy can appreciably affect the military balance in South Asia.

As far as India becoming self-sufficient in arms production is concerned, I think that India can do it by 2030 in all areas apart from engines. You need to bear in mind that its equipment will still be a little behind(UK, France etc) by around a decade though, apart from nuclear SSNs which will be 2-3 decades behind.

Your claim about gap between India and China only in economy.Develop a formidable military need decades of investment and money.US start their military build up with advanced technology soon after WW2.66 years of investment in all military branches make them most powerful military in the world.
Chinese Navy start its movement only after 2000 and they are developing most modern weapons only recently.

Most of all experience is the real god of a Armed Forces.May be Pakistan is more experienced than china.PLAN dont get a chance to fight a real war like Indian Navy or US navy did.1971 war is one of best performance of Indian Navy.
Now submarine force is only strength of PLAN.
You are Bangladeshi .You dont know nothing about Indian Navy .My cousin is an officer in Indian Navy.From that knowledge,Indian navy select and develop weapons only based on quality.IAF and IA also like that.They will not compromised in the term of quality.
That is only reason Philipine Navy show interest in Indian stealth frigate.
US attack Iraq because US already know Iraq is not a match for US.But PRC very well know the consequences to attack a Navy of World 3rd most powerful nation in the world .If they do it,China also drag years behind in the term of development.

 

[OrionHunter]

Hahaha... Bs article... Stealthily encircled by china and pakistan... Does pakistan have comparable fleet wrt IN... Does chyna have enough fleet for Scs? And can they split its fleet to Scs n Indian ocean... Apart USN none can afford war with IN in INdian ocean..

Yep! That really cracked me up!! Pakistan can't even protect its sea lanes in the Arabian Sea around the Strait of Hormuz and this clown says that India will be encircled by the Pakistan Navy!!

And China lacks the wherewithal to operate with any strength in the Indian Ocean due to distances and the immense logistics problems that come with it. They would prefer to concentrate their PLAN in the Pacific region and the South China Sea. They will never employ their navy in small penny packets. That's a bad idea to begin with!

All in all, I lost 5 minutes of my precious life reading that article!!

 

[UKBengali]

Your claim about gap between India and China only in economy.Develop a formidable military need decades of investment and money.US start their military build up with advanced technology soon after WW2.66 years of investment in all military branches make them most powerful military in the world.
Chinese Navy start its movement only after 2000 and they are developing most modern weapons only recently.

Most of all experience is the real god of a Armed Forces.May be Pakistan is more experienced than china.PLAN dont get a chance to fight a real war like Indian Navy or US navy did.1971 war is one of best performance of Indian Navy.
Now submarine force is only strength of PLAN.
You are Bangladeshi .You dont know nothing about Indian Navy .My cousin is an officer in Indian Navy.From that knowledge,Indian navy select and develop weapons only based on quality.IAF and IA also like that.They will not compromised in the term of quality.
That is only reason Philipine Navy show interest in Indian stealth frigate.
US attack Iraq because US already know Iraq is not a match for US.But PRC very well know the consequences to attack a Navy of World 3rd most powerful nation in the world .If they do it,China also drag years behind in the term of development.

What makes you think that China Navy started movements only after the 2000?

The 2nd generation Type-093 SSN had already been developed before the year 2000 and preliminary work had started on the 3rd generation Type-095 SSN. To give you an idea of the mammoth gap in SSN technology between China and India, China is now sea trialling it's 3rd generation Type-095 SSN while India is still yet to put it's 1st generation type out to sea. Not even Russia would give India the secrets to the latest cutting edge SSN designs.

I still do not understand why people think that Chinese military arms are inferior after the Chinese FD-2000 SAM win in Turkey over competitors from US/EU and Russia. Long-range SAMs are highly advanced systems and require very advanced sensor and rocket technology to develop.

It may be worth thinking why Pakistan cut the number of Saab Erieye order when they had a look at the Chinese ZDK-03 AWACs. Pakistanis can also be quoted to have been "pleasantly surprised" at the avionics, including the radar, of the JF-17.

China is not there yet, but 2030 would be a good date for the Chinese to be able to manufacture hi-tech arms in all fields.