The Great Game Changer: Belt and Road Intiative (BRI; OBOR)

[kalu_miah]

It just proves that the US and NATO overstretched in Ukraine. Biggest blunder of the century. They may get Ukraine minus Crimea, but they have already lost Russia to China. Bad news for US and NATO and good news for China and Asia.

But not sure how India sees this. I think they are not sure how to feel about this.

My feeling is:
One Mountain Cannot Contain Two Tigers | Chinese Idioms & Upbringing

“One Mountain Cannot Contain Two Tigers” literally means that in an area, there cannot be two very strong personality people leading. Just like in a mountain, there will only be one king, one leader. If there are 2 tigers (2 kings), you can be sure, they will fight it out. Either that or one of the tiger leaves that mountain.

O ya, there can be another outcome. It is where one of the tiger pretends to be ‘not-a-tiger’ for a while. This leads to the second part of another Chinese Idioms “Pretend to be a Pig, to eat the Tiger”. Look out for that in my other post "

So India will pretend to be a pig to eat the Tiger later, unless of course it is cut down to size early on. It is not just the US and NATO that is a long term threat for China, but I believe it is India that has population size and the will to dream on and try to challenge China and that is why they will ally with US and NATO in the long term. I believe there is no other way getting around this eventual turn of events for either India or US led West.

In the above situation, will Russia still remains an ally to India?

10-15 years from now Russian weapons tech will loose out to China's tech. If not 10-15 years, it will definitely happen in 20 years, only people who cannot see this probably believes in White supremacy nonsense. What will India do then, will they still buy Russian weapons, I think not, they are already buying Western and Japanese weapons tech. So they are diversifying and will dump Russian weapons altogether at that time and go for Western weapons tech. China must incorporate a tighter alliance with Russia, sharing some tech, so that it still have a viable weapons industry, even after when India dumps them.

China must also work with Japan and South Korea to let them know that they should think about the long term and be on the Asian side and not become a traitor to Asia like India may become one day. For now they can still be on the US camp, but they should not get too close to India and supply them with weapons tech.

 

[TheTruth]

^ I think this depends on whether or not India's neighbors all continue hating India for being an imperialist piece of shit. But that doesn't seem like it's going to happen soon. I know India acts like a fat bully to her neighbors but why aside from the water sharing issues do Bangladeshis so distrust the Indian gov't?

@kalu_miah

 

[GCTom]

It just proves that the US and NATO overstretched in Ukraine. Biggest blunder of the century. They may get Ukraine minus Crimea, but they have already lost Russia to China. Bad news for US and NATO and good news for China and Asia.

Russia was never NATO's to lose. Russia have its own independent foreign policy and was never in NATO lead adventures against other countries. Also, Russia have very good relationship with China in the last few decades. Regardless if the Ukraine mess happened or not, it was in Russia's own interest to sign this oil deal soon or later anyway.

But not sure how India sees this. I think they are not sure how to feel about this.

India is free to buy oil/gas from Russia too; as they do with weapons. I don't see China have any problem with it.

 

[kalu_miah]

^ I think this depends on whether or not India's neighbors all continue hating India for being an imperialist piece of shit. But that doesn't seem like it's going to happen soon. I know India acts like a fat bully to her neighbors but why aside from the water sharing issues do Bangladeshis so distrust the Indian gov't?

@kalu_miah

Many factors:

- it has to do with history, arrival of Muslims from Central Asia, first Turkics who created Delhi Sultanate and later Turkified Mongols who created Mughal empire and as a result there is today 500 million Muslims in South Asia and there is two countries called Pakistan and Bangladesh
Rise of Islam in Bengal, role of migration
- it has to do with delusional mindset that does not accept the above reality and wishes that the above never took place to begin with. So they have a policy of hostility to both Pakistan and Bangladesh and try to undermine our existence and well being in any way possible
- yet they will never accept a reunification with Muslim Bangladesh or Pakistan, because they fear that so many Muslims will end their Hindu majority and dominance, and the feeling is mutual, Pakistan separated from them in 1947, because we found that they have this delusional mindset to unreasonably assert their majority dominance in an unfair way
- since 1947 they schemed to break Pakistan and using media and cultural brainwashing specially in the Eastern part they were successful to find some useful idiots who would help them. In 1971, using these useful idiots they successfully instigated a civil war and then invaded East Pakistan to complete the job of break up. China was firmly against this breakup and did not recognize Bangladesh till the then Indian stooge Mujib was killed in 1975
- they have put dams on every international common rivers and are making Bangladesh a desert. With Pakistan they try to do it, but because Pakistan is a nuclear power state and people are little more conscious, and they have a water treaty, so they are forced to deal with Pakistan a little more fairly than they deal with Bangladesh
- we recognize that if we have to choose between China and India, we will always choose China, that is a no brainer, but that makes India more hostile and upset, because according to them, we must remain their vassal and not ally with anyone else, because we are their "backyard", the delusional mindset at work again
- Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Bhutan and Sri Lanka would like to see North East states and Kashmir valley become independent and rest of India broken up in pieces along ethno-linguistic lines, so the size advantage is no longer there and using the size advantage they can no longer threaten its neighboring states

Russia was never NATO's to lose. Russia have its own independent foreign policy and was never in NATO lead adventures against other countries. Also, Russia have very good relationship with China in the last few decades. Regardless if the Ukraine mess happened or not, it was in Russia's own interest to sign this oil deal soon or later anyway.

India is free to buy oil/gas from Russia too; as they do with weapons. I don't see China have any problem with it.

Napoleon tried it, Hitler tried it, what makes you think they do not dream of lebensraum and all the resources in this vast country?

India is free to buy through maritime route, but pipeline no, because Pakistan and Pakistan's close ally China will not support pipeline over Pakistan land to supply India. Russia itself will not supply India, when India inevitably will ally with the West.

 

[TheTruth]

I see. That makes a lot of sense. I know the Bhutanese resent Indian meddling. I can't understand where this arrogance and belligerence comes from in India. I suppose it's because they don't feel respected on the international stage.

 

[GCTom]

Napoleon tried it, Hitler tried it, what makes you think they do not dream of lebensraum and all the resources in this vast country?

M.A.D. No matter how much some countries wants to hurt Russia they are not stupid enough to invade it because of MAD.

India is free to buy through maritime route, but pipeline no, because Pakistan and Pakistan's close ally China will not support pipeline over Pakistan land to supply India. Russia itself will not supply India, when India inevitably will ally with the West.

As long as India can play fair and at the same time these pipelines bring benefit to Pakistan then I don't see any reason why Pakistand would go against it. Russia sells oil/gas to EU Nato members, then there is no reason why Russia can't/won't sell to India as long as India is willing to pay acceptable price to Russia.

 

[TaiShang]

Russia, China veto draft U.N. resolution on Syrian civil war

UNITED NATIONS, May 22 (Xinhua) -- Russia and China, two permanent members of the UN Security Council, on Thursday wielded veto power over a draft resolution which is intended to refer the Syrian civil war to the International Criminal Court (ICC).

The unadopted draft resolution, proposed by France, received 13 votes in favor and two against.

"The draft resolution has not been adopted owing to the negative votes of permanent members of the council," said Oh Joon, the South Korean permanent representative to the United Nations, who holds the rotating council presidency for the month of May.

The Thursday vote at the 15-nation UN body made it a fourth double veto by Russia and China on a West-drafted resolution on Syria.

Syria is not a state party to the Rome Statute which established the ICC, so the only way the Middle East country can be referred to The Hague-based tribunal is by the Security Council.

Under the UN Charter, the adoption of a draft resolution requires nine votes in favor and the absence of a negative vote by any of the five permanent members of the Security Council.

France, another permanent council member, circulated the draft resolution among the council members on May 12 in a bid to refer the Syrian civil war, current in its fourth year, to the ICC for review of alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity.

"The Security Council reaffirms its strong condemnation of the widespread violations of human rights law by the Syrian authorities and pro-government militias, as well as the human rights abuses and violations of international humanitarian law by non-State armed groups, all committed in the course of the ongoing conflict in the Syrian Arab Republic since March 2011," said the draft resolution.

After the council vote, Vitaly Churkin, the Russian UN ambassador, said at the Security Council that the vetoed draft resolution, if adopted, would "lay the ground for the eventual outside military intervention" in Syria.

Churkin blamed France, which initiated the draft resolution, for trying once again to "create a pretext for armed intervention in the Syrian conflict," while "fully aware of the failure it will meet" in the wake of the council vote.

"It is striking that there is not a single word on the political settlement and the negotiation process among the Syrians " mentioned in a communique at the end of the May 15 meeting on Syria in London, he said.

Citing the case of Libya, Churkin said the referral to the ICC would not help resolve the crisis.

The Security Council has previously referred Libya and Sudan's Darfur to the ICC.

"We call on our Western colleagues to abandon the futile, dead- end policy on Syria," he said.

"We share their emotions caused by the crisis in Syria, which has been dragging on for far too long," Churkin said, referring to the countries sponsoring the draft resolutions.

Russia has already voiced its opposition to the referral of Syria to the ICC. On Wednesday, Churkin called a "public stunt" the planned council vote.

The Geneva communique, issued in June 2012 on the principles of accountability and national reconciliation in Syria, will continue to serve as the basis for "the core efforts" to strive for the political solution to the Syrian crisis, he said. "We are convinced that the justice in Syria will eventually prevail."

"Those guilty of perpetrating grave crimes will be punished," he said. "But in order for this to happen, peace is first needed, first and foremost."

Also speaking at the council after his vote, Wang Min, the deputy Chinese permanent representative to the United Nations, said that China "has serious difficulties" with the draft resolution.

"What is most urgently needed now is to urge the government of Syria and opposition to immediately start a ceasefire and end violence so that the third round of the Geneva negotiations can be resumed to push forward the political process and start the political transition," Wang said.

Little progress has been achieved at the two round of peace talks between the Syrian government and opposition in Geneva in February this year. The international community is striving for the third round of negotiations in order to bring an end to the Syrian conflict, which has reportedly left some 150,000 Syrian people dead over the past more than three years.

"Under the current circumstances, to forcibly refer the situation of Syria to the ICC is neither conducive to building trust among all the parties in Syria, or to the early resumption of the negotiations in Geneva, it will only jeopardize the efforts made by the international community to push forward the political settlement," he said.

"We believe that at a time when there is a serious divergence of views concerning the draft resolution among all sides, the Security Council should continue to hold the consultations, rather than forcibly push for a vote on the draft resolution, so as not to undermine the unity in the council or obstruct the coordination and cooperation in the council in dealing with the questions such as Syria and other major serious issues," he said.

The Thursday vote came just days before international Syria mediator Lakhdar Brahimi is scheduled to step down on May 31.

"It is clear in this case that no side in this tragedy is innocent," said UN Deputy Secretary-General Jan Eliasson, who was addressing the Security Council on behalf of UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon.

 

[Pangu]

According to this graphics data, the negotiation lasted 20 yrs, beginning in 1994!

 

[terranMarine]

negotiations lasted for 2 decades and with the problematic EU - Russian relations i bet China got an offer it could not refuse.

 

[NACIONALISTA]

Russia was never NATO's to lose. Russia have its own independent foreign policy and was never in NATO lead adventures against other countries. Also, Russia have very good relationship with China in the last few decades. Regardless if the Ukraine mess happened or not, it was in Russia's own interest to sign this oil deal soon or later anyway.



India is free to buy oil/gas from Russia too; as they do with weapons. I don't see China have any problem with it.

Russia and China have a regional rivalry though. For now they are both more focused on the immediate threat posed by NATO. But Russia has always pursued a independent policy.

 

[kalu_miah]

I see. That makes a lot of sense. I know the Bhutanese resent Indian meddling. I can't understand where this arrogance and belligerence comes from in India. I suppose it's because they don't feel respected on the international stage.

I don't know either. I suspect it has to do with the resentment about the fact that they had been subjugated for so long and now finally they have a shot at imperial glory like back in the time of Ashoka. Being a large country means that they can be a nuisance for other neighbors. Being big, they can also easily get away with interfering in other countries affairs and politics. Except Pakistan, where they cannot make much headway because of Pakistan Army and Army intelligence (ISI), they interfered and continue to interfere in all their neighbors internal matters. For example they installed their puppet dictator in Bangladesh.

This sense of entitlement, by virtue of being a big nation, which I believe is a result of their delusional tendency, is probably at the root of their arrogance. Some claim that caste system could have something to do with it. The 2 upper castes (Brahmin and Shatriya/Khatriya) look down upon all other castes and minorities and its possible that they project this sense of superiority over local people to all other nations of the world, perhaps because of the delusional mindset.

 

[TheTruth]

I don't know either. I suspect it has to do with the resentment about the fact that they had been subjugated for so long and now finally they have a shot at imperial glory like back in the time of Ashoka. Being a large country means that they can be a nuisance for other neighbors. Being big, they can also easily get away with interfering in other countries affairs and politics. Except Pakistan, where they cannot make much headway because of Pakistan Army and Army intelligence (ISI), they interfered and continue to interfere in all their neighbors internal matters. For example they installed their puppet dictator in Bangladesh.

This sense of entitlement, by virtue of being a big nation, which I believe is a result of their delusional tendency, is probably at the root of their arrogance. Some claim that caste system could have something to do with it. The 2 upper castes (Brahmin and Shatriya/Khatriya) look down upon all other castes and minorities and its possible that they project this sense of superiority over local people to all other nations of the world, perhaps because of the delusional mindset.

I get the same feeling. India wants to put all of its neighbors in its caste system below even the untouchables.

 

[kalu_miah]

M.A.D. No matter how much some countries wants to hurt Russia they are not stupid enough to invade it because of MAD.

As long as India can play fair and at the same time these pipelines bring benefit to Pakistan then I don't see any reason why Pakistand would go against it. Russia sells oil/gas to EU Nato members, then there is no reason why Russia can't/won't sell to India as long as India is willing to pay acceptable price to Russia.

MAD is not an issue here, I am not talking about war and conquest. Their hope is that they can persuade and convince Russia to become a part of EU, in the very long term. After all, Russia is majority white European and Christian. There is a question about Russian orthodox religion, but there are already orthodox countries in EU, so that should not be a big stumbling block:

The biggest stumbling block is that Russia once had its own empire. They treasure their sovereignty and independence and would hate to go under EU core countries domination.

About Russia selling oil/gas to all customers is good business, but what I doubt about is Pakistan allowing Indian pipeline over its land. I would have to see it to believe. India's relation with its neighbors will not normalize for the foreseeable future, as a neighbor of India, we know and you can ask other India's neighbors as well and it has little to do with religion, but rather everything to do with Indian sense of entitlement to interfere in neighbor country internal affairs and believing that it is their god given right to meddle in their backyard.

 

[NACIONALISTA]

MAD is not an issue here, I am not talking about war and conquest. Their hope is that they can persuade and convince Russia to become a part of EU, in the very long term. After all, Russia is majority white European and Christian. There is a question about Russian orthodox religion, but there are already orthodox countries in EU, so that should not be a big stumbling block:

The biggest stumbling block is that Russia once had its own empire. They treasure their sovereignty and independence and would hate to go under EU core countries domination.

About Russia selling oil/gas to all customers is good business, but what I doubt about is Pakistan allowing Indian pipeline over its land. I would have to see it to believe. India's relation with its neighbors will not normalize for the foreseeable future, as a neighbor of India, we know and you can ask other India's neighbors as well and it has little to do with religion, but rather everything to do with Indian sense of entitlement to interfere in neighbor country internal affairs and believing that it is their god given right to meddle in their backyard.

Historically Russia has always been viewed as a separate entity from Europe both by Russians and Europeans alike.

This whole new concept of making Russia a part of the E.U is a globalist agenda which no true European or Russian Nationalist would support.

 

[kalu_miah]

I get the same feeling. India wants to put all of its neighbors in its caste system below even the untouchables.

Indeed, that is exactly what it is. They even openly say it to us Bangladeshi's that we are dalit (untouchable) converts. You should see the abuse they heap on Bangladeshi posters in Bangladeshi subsection. Because of the same reason they treat Pakistan with more deference. A habit that is thousands of years old is hard to get rid of.

You can see tons of videos on this subject of caste discrimination. I don't want to post videos and make Indian posters more angry. I would recommend two key word searches:
"caste discrimination"
"india untouched"