The Great Game Changer: Belt and Road Intiative (BRI; OBOR)

[Raphael]

In Stalin's time, relationship was even better, I think.

No, I think Putin is right when he said relations now are the best ever. Even in Stalin's time, right after our victories over fascism, there were still some suspicions, over the lack of USSR intervention in Korea, and because Mao was so ambitious and wanted to displace the USSR as the main communist state, or at least not be subordinate to it. But now ties are predicated on strong economic links, and a mutual disgust and opposition to American imperial overreach. This is a much more solid basis for cooperation.

 

[rockstar08]

good for the region ....

 

[vostok]

We need to guard ourselves against traitorous leaders, who can do so much damage to us.

Luckily, we have good leaders now. Putin is a great Russian patriot, and Chinese leaders (the top ones anyway) are determined to return China to a place of strength in the world.

America has grown too used to having global hegemony, they cannot stand it when countries like Russia and China refuse to follow their orders. All we need to do is grow strong by ourselves, and that alone is enough to rival (and thus end) their hegemony and bring about a multi-polar world.

Also, can I ask your opinion on Russian leaders (like Khrushchev etc)? Which ones do you like, and which ones do you dislike?

Without a doubt, our relations will improve, as it should be among friends and neighbors.
My opinion about the Soviet leader ? In short. Lenin made the world's first socialist revolution. He is no doubt a great man. His main mistake was that he created the Soviet Union as a federation rather than as a unitary state. Stalin was greatest among Soviet leaders. Moreover , I believe that Stalin - one of the greatest men in the history of mankind. He picked up power in a semi-feudal war-ravaged Russia and left it as superpower. He helps to many nations in the fight against Western colonial empires and the puppet pro- Western regimes. Khrushchev destroyed much of what made Stalin . The worst that Khrushchev did - he made a criticism of Stalin than caused irreparable damage to the image of communism in the eyes of all mankind . And he destroyed the State Planning Commission - a powerful office, thanks to the hard work of which the Soviet economy reached 20 % growth.
Brezhnev partially corrected the errors of Khrushchev , but not enough. Under Brezhnev, the Soviet Union lost leadership in science . Andropov was a strong man , General . He planned cleansing ranks of Party from Western agents which in 80`s has been a lot. He was killed , as well as Stalin. About Chernenko I know nothing , except that he was very old and very sick.
Gorbachev - history rightly will put him on par with Judas and Brutus . The greatest traitor for two thousand years. Absolutely despicable person .

 

[anonymus]

Can you not refer to our country as a dog? We were in the Soviet camp yes, but later made our own camp.

That was a figure of speech epitomizing unflinching loyalty. Would change that.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Without a doubt, our relations will improve, as it should be among friends and neighbors.
My opinion about the Soviet leader ? In short. Lenin made the world's first socialist revolution. He is no doubt a great man. His main mistake was that he created the Soviet Union as a federation rather than as a unitary state. Stalin was greatest among Soviet leaders. Moreover , I believe that Stalin - one of the greatest men in the history of mankind. He picked up power in a semi-feudal war-ravaged Russia and left it as superpower. He helps to many nations in the fight against Western colonial empires and the puppet pro- Western regimes. Khrushchev destroyed much of what made Stalin . The worst that Khrushchev did - he made a criticism of Stalin than caused irreparable damage to the image of communism in the eyes of all mankind . And he destroyed the State Planning Commission - a powerful office, thanks to the hard work of which the Soviet economy reached 20 % growth.
Brezhnev partially corrected the errors of Khrushchev , but not enough. Under Brezhnev, the Soviet Union lost leadership in science . Andropov was a strong man , General . He planned cleansing ranks of Party from Western agents which in 80 years has been a lot. He was killed , as well as Stalin. About Chernenko I know nothing , except that he was very old and very sick.
Gorbachev - history rightly will put him on par with Judas and Brutus . The greatest traitor for two thousand years. Absolutely despicable person .

Thanks buddy, that was very informative.

Gorbachev - history rightly will put him on par with Judas and Brutus . The greatest traitor for two thousand years. Absolutely despicable person .

I agree with you sir, I always thought Gorbachev was for Russia what Chiang Kai-shek and Wang Jingwei were for us (greatest traitors in modern Chinese history).

My favorite Chinese leaders are Deng Xiaoping, Hu Jintao and Zhu Rongji (I greatly disliked Jiang Zemin, maybe unfairly). The current one, Xi Jinping is looking quite good as well, I think he might do very well.

As long as we can avoid bringing another Chiang Kai-shek to power in China, and prevent another Gorbachev from coming to power in Russia, then I don't think any American tricks can stop us from rising again. Internal strength is the most important kind of strength.

 

[senheiser]

In Soviet era, Relationship was one sided. Now relationship is based on equality.

+

PRC did not existed for most of Stalin's reign.

not true, China fought against america in korean war and proved it was a communist power of its own, this all happened under stalin

 

[vostok]

Thanks buddy, that was very informative.



I agree with you sir, I always thought Gorbachev was for Russia what Chiang Kai-shek and Wang Jingwei were for us (greatest traitors in modern Chinese history).

My favorite Chinese leaders are Deng Xiaoping, Hu Jintao and Zhu Rongji (I greatly disliked Jiang Zemin, maybe unfairly). The current one, Xi Jinping is looking quite good as well, I think he might do very well.

As long as we can avoid bringing another Chiang Kai-shek to power in China, and prevent another Gorbachev from coming to power in Russia, then I don't think any American tricks can stop us from rising again. Internal strength is the most important kind of strength.

Chinese Party managed to establish a mechanism for the transfer of power to change generations. Soviet Party has failed to do it . Bring a man into space and spread socialism to half of the world they were able to , and establish a mechanism for the transfer of power - unfortunately not ...
It just so happens that most of the active men 1919-1927 years of birth were killed on the war. Therefore, the elite has been no change in the 70s and 80s . Continuity was broken , and the party bosses late 80s were already very much oriented to the West. They destroyed the country for personal enrichment, under the leadership of Michael " Judas " Gorbachev.

 

[Mao1949]

Thanks buddy, that was very informative.



I agree with you sir, I always thought Gorbachev was for Russia what Chiang Kai-shek and Wang Jingwei were for us (greatest traitors in modern Chinese history).

My favorite Chinese leaders are Deng Xiaoping, Hu Jintao and Zhu Rongji (I greatly disliked Jiang Zemin, maybe unfairly). The current one, Xi Jinping is looking quite good as well, I think he might do very well.

As long as we can avoid bringing another Chiang Kai-shek to power in China, and prevent another Gorbachev from coming to power in Russia, then I don't think any American tricks can stop us from rising again. Internal strength is the most important kind of strength.

Greatest Chinese leader in history is Mao. Other names you said came about due to Mao's hard work. Without Mao there is no modern China. Mao formed his own party, got support from the peasants and resisted the Japanese military, defeated the American puppet KMT, kicked the colonial foreigners out of China, kicked US out of North Korea, beat India, got back Xinjiang and Tibet, put satellite into space, built nuclear weapons, built missiles, increased Chinese population to give advantage we have now, gave China an independent foreign policy, protected Chinese sovereignty, etc

Mao was a revolutionary and a charismatic man. The job of others were made pretty easy due to the foundation laid by Mao. Mao made a few economic mistakes in his later years that were costly in human life and resources but never ever forget all the positives he contributed to China. Mao had to do all the hard work. What he did is 1000 times harder than doing a bunch of economic reforms like Deng Xiaoping and Zhu Rongji. China had nothing and Mao protected Chinese interests with very limited resources.

China was in the biggest mess in our history with very strong rivals and China at its weakest, yet Mao somehow strengthened Chinese power. For that, Mao is the greatest Chinese that ever lived.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Greatest Chinese leader in history is Mao. Other names you said came about due to Mao's hard work. Without Mao there is no modern China. Mao formed his own party, got support from the peasants and resisted the Japanese military, defeated the American puppet KMT, kicked the colonial foreigners out of China, kicked US out of North Korea, beat India, got back Xinjiang and Tibet, put satellite into space, built nuclear weapons, built missiles, increased Chinese population to give advantage we have now, gave China an independent foreign policy, protected Chinese sovereignty, etc

Mao was a revolutionary and a charismatic man. The job of others were made pretty easy due to the foundation laid by Mao. Mao made a few economic mistakes in his later years that were costly in human life and resources but never ever forget all the positives he contributed to China. Mao had to do all the hard work. What he did is 1000 times harder than doing a bunch of economic reforms like Deng Xiaoping and Zhu Rongji. China had nothing and Mao protected Chinese interests with very limited resources.

China was in the biggest mess in our history with very strong rivals and China at its weakest, yet Mao somehow strengthened Chinese power. For that, Mao is the greatest Chinese that ever lived.

This is true, Mao founded the PRC and ended our Century of Humiliation by kicking out all the foreign powers. That alone was one of China's best achievements in modern history.

But still I prefer Deng Xiaoping. For me, economic development is always the number one priority, since that is the thing that most affects the ordinary Chinese people on the ground.

 

[Raphael]

My favorite Chinese leaders are Deng Xiaoping, Hu Jintao and Zhu Rongji (I greatly disliked Jiang Zemin, maybe unfairly). The current one, Xi Jinping is looking quite good as well, I think he might do very well.

Don't forget Zhou Enlai. He tempered Mao's policies when Mao was at his least stable.

 

[Pangu]

Putin needs to concentrate on the Russian Far East development in view of the Ukrainian crisis, no doubt Russia is still Euro-centric, but Vladivostok is the new deal in the 21st century. Also, more Russians there will hopefully disperse the fear of Chinese invasion phobia.

Is Russia's Far East overcrowded by Chinese immigrants?
April 28, 2012 Artem Zagorodnov
One of the most common myths in Moscow is that Russia’s Far East is overrun with Chinese immigrants. Sergei Pushkarev was the head of the Vladivostok regional branch of the Federal Migration Service from 1993 until 2003. He talked to RBTH about why this myth persists and what the demographic situation really looks like in the Far East.

1

Sergei Pushkarev, the head of the Vladivostok regional branch of the Federal Migration Service from 1993 until 2003. Source: Press Photo
RBTH: Are Russian fears that the Chinese are taking over Russia’s Far East justified?

Sergei Pushkarev: Somebody has to take care of the territory and our own population is leaving the area in catastrophic numbers. Those replacing them are not Chinese, but citizens of Central Asian countries.

Investment from China is practically zero due to a lack of mechanisms to protect them from official abuse and criminals. The Chinese are happy to host joint businesses on their side of the border, taking advantage of our technological know-how and attracting our entrepreneurs.

In the mid-1990s when we first opened up Vladivostok – and China was less economically developed – we had lots of Chinese in border bazaars and sleeping in train wagons. Nowadays you have to pay around a thousand dollars monthly to attract a specialist from China.

God gave us a peaceful, hard-working neighbor eager to engage in mutually beneficial economic activity…and we live in fear of China.

RBTH: How many migrants from China are there?

S. P.: The number is in the thousands. Unlike Central Asians, Chinese citizens need a visa to cross into Russia. We have clear numbers on how many are here and what they’re doing.

Chinese, Korean, Philippine and other immigrants from faraway countries are the most controlled in Russia because all of those people need visas to enter Russia. They are easy to deport if they break the law. When the head of the Federal Migration Service talks about nine to ten million illegal immigrants in Russia, he’s referring mostly to Central Asians (who don’t need a visa).

They arrive in Russia without an invitation, without an employer and without a stated purpose or timeframe for being here. But they are granted three months to become legally employed, which is usually not enough because of bureaucratic barriers.

RBTH: Where does the myth that there are of millions of Chinese in the Far East come from?

S.P.: There are 14 border crossings, most of them on the border with China. Approximately 750 thousand border crossings are made by Chinese citizens each year. Most of these people – they include tourists headed for other regions of Russia, businesspeople, workers –eventually leave the country. One citizen from China who entered Russia 10 times over the course of the year would count as ten. Then the journalists and academics use this figure to say that 750 thousand Chinese citizens moved into the Far East in a single year. Then the nationalist politicians in Moscow pick up this number.

Most of the Chinese people don’t assimilate and don’t remain here permanently. They’ve even set up special training centers on their own territory to prepare Chinese citizens for working in foreign countries, including Russia. And we’re only talking about setting up these centers for foreigners coming to work here.

A lot of people don’t know that the Chinese government is having problems keeping its population from moving South. They are actually having the same problems of people leaving their Northern territories as we are having with the Far East.

Sergei Pushkarev headed the Federal Migration Service’s (roughly equivalent to the Immigration and Naturalization Service in the United States) office in Vladivostok from 1993 until it was made subordinate to the Ministry of Internal Affairs in 2003. He has since set up a nongovernmental organization that assists immigrants and their employers.
Source: Russia Beyond the Headlines - Is Russia's Far East overcrowded by Chinese immigrants? | Russia Beyond The Headlines)

 

[senheiser]

Putin needs to concentrate on the Russian Far East development in view of the Ukrainian crisis, no doubt Russia is still Euro-centric, but Vladivostok is the new deal in the 21st century. Also, more Russians there will hopefully disperse the fear of Chinese invasion phobia.

Is Russia's Far East overcrowded by Chinese immigrants?
April 28, 2012 Artem Zagorodnov
One of the most common myths in Moscow is that Russia’s Far East is overrun with Chinese immigrants. Sergei Pushkarev was the head of the Vladivostok regional branch of the Federal Migration Service from 1993 until 2003. He talked to RBTH about why this myth persists and what the demographic situation really looks like in the Far East.

1

Sergei Pushkarev, the head of the Vladivostok regional branch of the Federal Migration Service from 1993 until 2003. Source: Press Photo
RBTH: Are Russian fears that the Chinese are taking over Russia’s Far East justified?

Sergei Pushkarev: Somebody has to take care of the territory and our own population is leaving the area in catastrophic numbers. Those replacing them are not Chinese, but citizens of Central Asian countries.

Investment from China is practically zero due to a lack of mechanisms to protect them from official abuse and criminals. The Chinese are happy to host joint businesses on their side of the border, taking advantage of our technological know-how and attracting our entrepreneurs.

In the mid-1990s when we first opened up Vladivostok – and China was less economically developed – we had lots of Chinese in border bazaars and sleeping in train wagons. Nowadays you have to pay around a thousand dollars monthly to attract a specialist from China.

God gave us a peaceful, hard-working neighbor eager to engage in mutually beneficial economic activity…and we live in fear of China.

RBTH: How many migrants from China are there?

S. P.: The number is in the thousands. Unlike Central Asians, Chinese citizens need a visa to cross into Russia. We have clear numbers on how many are here and what they’re doing.

Chinese, Korean, Philippine and other immigrants from faraway countries are the most controlled in Russia because all of those people need visas to enter Russia. They are easy to deport if they break the law. When the head of the Federal Migration Service talks about nine to ten million illegal immigrants in Russia, he’s referring mostly to Central Asians (who don’t need a visa).

They arrive in Russia without an invitation, without an employer and without a stated purpose or timeframe for being here. But they are granted three months to become legally employed, which is usually not enough because of bureaucratic barriers.

RBTH: Where does the myth that there are of millions of Chinese in the Far East come from?

S.P.: There are 14 border crossings, most of them on the border with China. Approximately 750 thousand border crossings are made by Chinese citizens each year. Most of these people – they include tourists headed for other regions of Russia, businesspeople, workers –eventually leave the country. One citizen from China who entered Russia 10 times over the course of the year would count as ten. Then the journalists and academics use this figure to say that 750 thousand Chinese citizens moved into the Far East in a single year. Then the nationalist politicians in Moscow pick up this number.

Most of the Chinese people don’t assimilate and don’t remain here permanently. They’ve even set up special training centers on their own territory to prepare Chinese citizens for working in foreign countries, including Russia. And we’re only talking about setting up these centers for foreigners coming to work here.

A lot of people don’t know that the Chinese government is having problems keeping its population from moving South. They are actually having the same problems of people leaving their Northern territories as we are having with the Far East.

Sergei Pushkarev headed the Federal Migration Service’s (roughly equivalent to the Immigration and Naturalization Service in the United States) office in Vladivostok from 1993 until it was made subordinate to the Ministry of Internal Affairs in 2003. He has since set up a nongovernmental organization that assists immigrants and their employers.
Source: Russia Beyond the Headlines - Is Russia's Far East overcrowded by Chinese immigrants? | Russia Beyond The Headlines)

i prefer Chinese immigrant to Arabs like it is in Western Europe

 

[Sanchez]

In Stalin's time, relationship was even better, I think.

In Stalin's time the relationship was like "big brother/little brother" or "teacher/student", and the "brotherhood" was broken because CCP refused to criticize Stalin or to be anti-Stalinism. Stalin was and still is considered as great as Lenin in CCP though.

We now perhaps have good and equal partnerships.

One of the impressive Soviet figures was Kosygin, somewhat similar to the role of Chinese premier Zhou Enlai.

 

[Sanchez]

Greatest Chinese leader in history is Mao. Other names you said came about due to Mao's hard work. Without Mao there is no modern China. Mao formed his own party, got support from the peasants and resisted the Japanese military, defeated the American puppet KMT, kicked the colonial foreigners out of China, kicked US out of North Korea, beat India, got back Xinjiang and Tibet, put satellite into space, built nuclear weapons, built missiles, increased Chinese population to give advantage we have now, gave China an independent foreign policy, protected Chinese sovereignty, etc

Mao was a revolutionary and a charismatic man. The job of others were made pretty easy due to the foundation laid by Mao. Mao made a few economic mistakes in his later years that were costly in human life and resources but never ever forget all the positives he contributed to China. Mao had to do all the hard work. What he did is 1000 times harder than doing a bunch of economic reforms like Deng Xiaoping and Zhu Rongji. China had nothing and Mao protected Chinese interests with very limited resources.

China was in the biggest mess in our history with very strong rivals and China at its weakest, yet Mao somehow strengthened Chinese power. For that, Mao is the greatest Chinese that ever lived.

Mao wasn't an big figure in the formation of CCP. He fought his way through and later proved to be the natural leader of CCP. Mao was ruthless against foreign aggression, and yet he is remembered and respected for that by the world. We need another Mao's style leader to deal with present day US and their pet dogs in Asia.

 

[tranquilium]

In Stalin's time, relationship was even better, I think.

Stalin is a great leader, that's why sitting on the opposite side of the negotiation table to him is a big headache for pretty much anyone and no, the relationship is not better in Stalin's time from Chinese perspective.