What's new

The Great Game Changer: Belt and Road Intiative (BRI; OBOR)

1.Japan had once the chance during 1990s,when CHina was not so powerful and Japan had by far might economy.
But now, Japan has no chance,simplly because CHina is against it and CHina has more powerful industry now.

2. Japan and German are weak militarily and can not turn their industry might into military might.

3. EU has two vetos now, it is not reasonable to give another veto to EU. So, German has little chance.


4. a better reform plan of UNSC is to decrease P5 to P4,that is USA, China ,EU and Russia,instead of increaseing vetos.
such a P4 can reflect the new power balance in the world and increase the efficency of UN.
Of course ,it will be vetoed by France and UK....
Thus such a plan is not feasible.



UN was set up not for maintaining peace,but as a police tools of P5.
P5 are satisfied with it, so it does its job well.

For high-tech industries japan still the leader..When china becomes part of P5, they are not a major economy,military or industrial might, other than part of those countries to win world war.Reality is that no P5 wants their power to get diluted and they make all kinds of excuses to justify their self interest.After cold war, UN becomes more irrelevant.
 
US backs China & Russia, blow to Indian UNSC dream

Aug 11, 2015, TOI

NEW DELHI: India's official dream of getting a permanent seat in the UN Security Council was dealt a decisive blow with the US teaming up with China and Russia to oppose negotiations for changes in the body.

After a long and laborious process of discussions, countries have finally come out with a framework text which could be the basis of negotiations to reform the Security Council — not only to admit more countries as permanent members, but also to make its working more transparent. The text was the result of inter-governmental negotiations (IGN) and was introduced in the UN General Assembly by its president Sam Kutesa on August 1.

The text, which may continue to be debated, however, has a short effective life after three biggies —US, China and Russia — came out against it, making any negotiations little more than an academic exercise.

The US stand was a blow largely because its has been what New Delhi believed the most recent and important voice supporting India's permanent UNSC membership. In a letter, the US said, "The IGN is the most appropriate forum for these discussions. It is critical that any reform proposal enjoy broad consensus among member states." Sources said it's just diplomatese for pushing the can down the road.

Indian officials say the IGN was really not going anywhere, but it has become the flavour of the season with all the nay-sayers like US, Russia and China. Washington is willing to consider specific countries for entry into the UNSC but only after they have proved their credentials in their "ability and willingness to contribute to the maintenance of international peace and security and to other purposes of the United Nations". But it will not agree to "any alteration or expansion of the veto".

While India will not stake its partnership with the US on its non-support, it does make things awkward. PM Narendra Modi has recently written a long letter to all 193-member countries of the UN pushing India's case in the UNSC. Indian diplomats believe text-based negotiations are its best chance to get into the UNSC.

Russia, India's oldest supporter for the UNSC seat, also supported the inter-governmental negotiations, rejecting the text-based one. "The intergovernmental negotiations on the UN Security Council reform should proceed in a calm, transparent and inclusive atmosphere free from artificial deadlines. If a consensus on this issue is not possible to achieve, then in any case it will be politically necessary to secure the support by the overwhelming majority of the member-states — a substantially greater number than the legally required two thirds of votes at the General Assembly," it said. That, say diplomats, will be almost impossible to achieve.

China has remained a steadfast opponent to the process of UNSC reform, and has been the unofficial sponsor of the 13-nation group UfC. So China's opposition to the negotiations is not a surprise. Beijing has used its considerable clout in Africa, Asia and Latin America to build opinion against the text process.

In its response, Beijing said it would refuse to "populate" the document. Outlining its position, China said, "Member-states are still seriously divided on the Security Council reform. No general agreement has been reached on any solution so far. Member-states still need to engage in patient consultations to find a solution that accommodates each other's interests and concerns. Any solution or reform model should enjoy general agreement among member-states.

The five clusters of key issues concerning Security Council reform are interrelated, and should not be addressed in isolation of each other. It is imperative to stick to the approach of a package solution." Indicating that it might be difficult to ever get China's support, it put out what appears to be an impossible position — "No solution on which member-states are seriously divided or approach that may cause division among member-states will have China's support."

We will take pur own time
 
Untill India has some major advantages on the military front, with leap bound progress in self grown technology, UNSC is a distant dream.

Why would existing P5 dilute their power? What benefit will they have? All these talks about democracy, human rights etc are just farce and does not hold any value in the power games.
NAM was the right choice and India should try to re-energise it.
 
Like on what ? Give specifics

Provides counterweight to President Ghani's Afghanistan to Pakistan. Has significant influence on Maldives and Bhutan. What else you want?

Oh it has 1,280 million people and about to overtake China.

Ps. It's influence on Iran is nothing. Iran being Iran would never do anything unless it wants to. As regards trade the Chinese carry far more leverage with Iran then India.

OEC: Iran (IRN) Profile of Exports, Imports and Trade Partners
 
Thats a deal ! :cheers:
Can we use @Star Wars as target practice though ? :tongue:
I've always wanted to know what it feels like to go Wild Wild West on an Indian ! :whistle:

And i thought you were a friend

sithLordShamingMurder.png
 
1.Japan had once the chance during 1990s,when CHina was not so powerful and Japan had by far might economy.
But now, Japan has no chance,simplly because CHina is against it and CHina has more powerful industry now.

2. Japan and German are weak militarily and can not turn their industry might into military might.

3. EU has two vetos now, it is not reasonable to give another veto to EU. So, German has little chance.


4. a better reform plan of UNSC is to decrease P5 to P4,that is USA, China ,EU and Russia,instead of increaseing vetos.
such a P4 can reflect the new power balance in the world and increase the efficency of UN.
Of course ,it will be vetoed by France and UK....
Thus such a plan is not feasible.



UN was set up not for maintaining peace,but as a police tools of P5.
P5 are satisfied with it, so it does its job well.

That police tool does not suits the events, as russia still facing sanctions outside UN and US trying to scuttle china's progress and demonstrating its military might on china's backyard.
 
A country like India deserves UNSC permanent seat and is in no need of recommendations or favors to get its deserved place.

IGN do not mean any single power can stop India's entry into UNSC. This world has many countries and it is upto them to decide.

There is absolutely no need of UNSC expansion with out veto power, Countries in UNSC are acting like fascist powers. UNSC will loose its significance if it runs like Aristocracy.




US backs China & Russia, blow to Indian UNSC dream

Aug 11, 2015, TOI

NEW DELHI: India's official dream of getting a permanent seat in the UN Security Council was dealt a decisive blow with the US teaming up with China and Russia to oppose negotiations for changes in the body.

After a long and laborious process of discussions, countries have finally come out with a framework text which could be the basis of negotiations to reform the Security Council — not only to admit more countries as permanent members, but also to make its working more transparent. The text was the result of inter-governmental negotiations (IGN) and was introduced in the UN General Assembly by its president Sam Kutesa on August 1.

The text, which may continue to be debated, however, has a short effective life after three biggies —US, China and Russia — came out against it, making any negotiations little more than an academic exercise.

The US stand was a blow largely because its has been what New Delhi believed the most recent and important voice supporting India's permanent UNSC membership. In a letter, the US said, "The IGN is the most appropriate forum for these discussions. It is critical that any reform proposal enjoy broad consensus among member states." Sources said it's just diplomatese for pushing the can down the road.

Indian officials say the IGN was really not going anywhere, but it has become the flavour of the season with all the nay-sayers like US, Russia and China. Washington is willing to consider specific countries for entry into the UNSC but only after they have proved their credentials in their "ability and willingness to contribute to the maintenance of international peace and security and to other purposes of the United Nations". But it will not agree to "any alteration or expansion of the veto".

While India will not stake its partnership with the US on its non-support, it does make things awkward. PM Narendra Modi has recently written a long letter to all 193-member countries of the UN pushing India's case in the UNSC. Indian diplomats believe text-based negotiations are its best chance to get into the UNSC.

Russia, India's oldest supporter for the UNSC seat, also supported the inter-governmental negotiations, rejecting the text-based one. "The intergovernmental negotiations on the UN Security Council reform should proceed in a calm, transparent and inclusive atmosphere free from artificial deadlines. If a consensus on this issue is not possible to achieve, then in any case it will be politically necessary to secure the support by the overwhelming majority of the member-states — a substantially greater number than the legally required two thirds of votes at the General Assembly," it said. That, say diplomats, will be almost impossible to achieve.

China has remained a steadfast opponent to the process of UNSC reform, and has been the unofficial sponsor of the 13-nation group UfC. So China's opposition to the negotiations is not a surprise. Beijing has used its considerable clout in Africa, Asia and Latin America to build opinion against the text process.

In its response, Beijing said it would refuse to "populate" the document. Outlining its position, China said, "Member-states are still seriously divided on the Security Council reform. No general agreement has been reached on any solution so far. Member-states still need to engage in patient consultations to find a solution that accommodates each other's interests and concerns. Any solution or reform model should enjoy general agreement among member-states.

The five clusters of key issues concerning Security Council reform are interrelated, and should not be addressed in isolation of each other. It is imperative to stick to the approach of a package solution." Indicating that it might be difficult to ever get China's support, it put out what appears to be an impossible position — "No solution on which member-states are seriously divided or approach that may cause division among member-states will have China's support."
 
Last edited:
China said, "Member-states are still seriously divided on the Security Council reform. No general agreement has been reached on any solution so far. Member-states still need to engage in patient consultations to find a solution that accommodates each other's interests and concerns. Any solution or reform model should enjoy general agreement among member-states.

As long as one of the members disagrees, any enlargement effort is destined to fail.
 
India deserves UNSC permanent seat and so it will get it in an appropriate way.
A country like India is a do not need recommendations or favors to get its deserved place.


IGN do not mean any single power can stop India's entry into UNSC. This world has many countries and it is upto them decide.

It look like you have some comprehension issues, please read again. Why Modi ji wrote long letters of 193 pages to all countries???

US backs China & Russia, blow to Indian UNSC dream

Aug 11, 2015, TOI

NEW DELHI: India's official dream of getting a permanent seat in the UN Security Council was dealt a decisive blow with the US teaming up with China and Russia to oppose negotiations for changes in the body.

After a long and laborious process of discussions, countries have finally come out with a framework text which could be the basis of negotiations to reform the Security Council — not only to admit more countries as permanent members, but also to make its working more transparent. The text was the result of inter-governmental negotiations (IGN) and was introduced in the UN General Assembly by its president Sam Kutesa on August 1.

The text, which may continue to be debated, however, has a short effective life after three biggies —US, China and Russia — came out against it, making any negotiations little more than an academic exercise.

The US stand was a blow largely because its has been what New Delhi believed the most recent and important voice supporting India's permanent UNSC membership. In a letter, the US said, "The IGN is the most appropriate forum for these discussions. It is critical that any reform proposal enjoy broad consensus among member states." Sources said it's just diplomatese for pushing the can down the road.

Indian officials say the IGN was really not going anywhere, but it has become the flavour of the season with all the nay-sayers like US, Russia and China. Washington is willing to consider specific countries for entry into the UNSC but only after they have proved their credentials in their "ability and willingness to contribute to the maintenance of international peace and security and to other purposes of the United Nations". But it will not agree to "any alteration or expansion of the veto".

While India will not stake its partnership with the US on its non-support, it does make things awkward. PM Narendra Modi has recently written a long letter to all 193-member countries of the UN pushing India's case in the UNSC. Indian diplomats believe text-based negotiations are its best chance to get into the UNSC.

Russia, India's oldest supporter for the UNSC seat, also supported the inter-governmental negotiations, rejecting the text-based one. "The intergovernmental negotiations on the UN Security Council reform should proceed in a calm, transparent and inclusive atmosphere free from artificial deadlines. If a consensus on this issue is not possible to achieve, then in any case it will be politically necessary to secure the support by the overwhelming majority of the member-states — a substantially greater number than the legally required two thirds of votes at the General Assembly," it said. That, say diplomats, will be almost impossible to achieve.

China has remained a steadfast opponent to the process of UNSC reform, and has been the unofficial sponsor of the 13-nation group UfC. So China's opposition to the negotiations is not a surprise. Beijing has used its considerable clout in Africa, Asia and Latin America to build opinion against the text process.

In its response, Beijing said it would refuse to "populate" the document. Outlining its position, China said, "Member-states are still seriously divided on the Security Council reform. No general agreement has been reached on any solution so far. Member-states still need to engage in patient consultations to find a solution that accommodates each other's interests and concerns. Any solution or reform model should enjoy general agreement among member-states.

The five clusters of key issues concerning Security Council reform are interrelated, and should not be addressed in isolation of each other. It is imperative to stick to the approach of a package solution." Indicating that it might be difficult to ever get China's support, it put out what appears to be an impossible position — "No solution on which member-states are seriously divided or approach that may cause division among member-states will have China's support."
 
Back
Top Bottom