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The Grand Modi illusion

So you're telling me that since a system as evil as caste discrimination is allowed in other religions I should turn a blind eye to the problem that exists in our society???
What's the logic???

same logic as above.

I think that you have a mistaken belief that I give a damn about what anyone ,including you, thinks.

I typed that post so that when some stuck-up self-righteous hypocrite try to bully you using caste system as a scaffold ,abroad; you could give him/her a reasoned reply rather than oscillating between two extremes of either mouthing obscenities or going "ji huzoor, come liberate us darkie dravidians from evil Aryan-Brahmanical tyranny".

I have a sense of noblesse-oblige towards fellow Indians especially when they are in adverse situation, like politically adverse condition every NRI would find himself in, and thus would supply them with counterpoints to reply against bullying by Islamists or missionaries. I have no desire to teach anything to anyone.


Manvan 1 talks to manvan2 and manvan 3 gives it a like. wow!!!

Neither I am @manvantratruti nor @Makaramarma . Hope that suffice.
 
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I have no evidence with me but I challenge you to prove me wrong that the term "shudra" has not been mentioned in Vedas.
The existence of the word is not being debated. That it is discriminatory is being discussed. The absence of it can be proved only by quoting the entire Vedas in original. You can not shoot a lie and then ask the audience to disprove you based on your assumptions.
Now dont drag me into a debate on hinduism. Thats not my intention.
Ok.

I am not interested in a religious debate.
Ok.

I still say that "casteism is a bane of hinduism".
Wait. :D Just before you wrote you are not interested in 'religious debate'. :hitwall: And here you vomit the same old Hindu baiting diatribe. :enjoy:
Follow a line and stick to it. It's not 'bad' to hate Hinduism, but stating otherwise and still portraying the hate covertly is unwise.

Hinduism precedes Romans and Greeks. :coffee:
So? My point is that class is not in ancient Hindu vocabulary. Varnas - yes. Jatis - yes. Not classes.
 
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you are probably right. It was the smritis that talked of violence against shudras in the name of vedas.
But I disagree that the shudras had any chance to become high caste as they were debarred from not only vedas but even basic education. Now i have seen the SC people mastering sanskrit but they can not become a brahmin. But there is an apparent a little positive change in the attitude towards them in last 30 years.

SC people are panchamas not shudras.

The farmers/artisans/shepherds/cowherds/manual workers were all called shudras and the system became rigid much later.
 
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So what do you think Jati is???
Is that not a hindi name for class division??

All Hindu strike that all religious texts are vague and fuzzy enough to provide plenty of scope for rationalization by interpretation. In case of The Dalit/Shudra question this is more-soever true because of allegorical nature of Hindu scriptures.

I don't care one iota about whether organized discrimination and exploitation of Shudras and other lower caste were sanctioned as such by Vedas. Since Brahmins were the only caste monopolizing religious text for centuries it doesn't matter what Vedas and scriptures said what matters is how were they applied in society.

I won't blame Hinduism and it's followers alone as exploitation is not exclusive to Indian society. There are many forms of class division - and no society is immune from it - not in mists of history nor today nor in future. Every society has put barriers to keep the lower strata artificially suppressed. In one way it makes sense - Not everyone can be a Royalty or modern royalty like Industrialist/Doctors/Judges/Lawyers etc. We need workers to do the dirty work which no one else want's to do - For Eg Cleaning Toilets and Streets, easiest way to make people do is to take away all their other options by denying them quality education, denying them a way to acquire necessary skill set to move up.

In modern days this denial has become very creative, you cannot openly discriminate based on pre-existing norms like color, caste, creed etc so all this has become unofficial and un-stated.

The modern day barriers are - English Proficiency, Dressing sense, Access to quality education and coaching - We all know how big a gap there is between a Village boy and a city educated boy in English fluency and pronunciation. I am sure, we all have had a smug smile when we hear broken English spoken by a village boy. Now temme given equal marks and mental dexterity, whom would an HR select - A village boy or a city boy? Of-course same would have been passed of as better personality and body language. This is not even considering how difficult it is for a Village boy to achieve same marks a City boy due to lack of coaching and quality education at primary and secondary level.

There can be some exceptions like our beloved Kalam but usually that is the norm. It takes twice as much work and time for a village boy to achieve the same status as a privileged city kid. This is just one of the examples among countless others of the divide between India of gleaming cities and decaying Villages

This modern rural - urban divide is nothing but caste system of our times, when village kids who are the majority share in their demographic are relegated to comparatively Shudra kind of work compared to modern Brahmins of Cities.

So @SarthakGanguly and others, caste system will continue in India and the whole world, there is no religious basis for it - that was just a means to enforce it in past. We will continue finding new means to keep the gap alive.

There is no egalitarian society, that is a stuff of fairy tales.
 
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So what do you think Jati is???
Is that not a hindi name for class division??
Jati is Class division? :hitwall:
Then was is ethnic division? :D


Wait. You are right. I have put on a different hat now. Will continue till I get bored.
#beingSecular
 
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Lets stop going around in circles and understand that we are finally talking about "divisions" in our society, be it jaati or varna.
Now now... :D

Which society does not have divisions?

How are Hindus unique in that case then? :azn:
 
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Brits, Dynasty/Caste based politicians and the fools responsible for the current Quota system...
And what about the ppl who follow this system???
It's the ppl who vote for such politicians.We get the leader we deserve, the onus lies on us.
 
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And what about the ppl who follow this system???
It's the ppl who vote for such politicians.We get the leader we deserve, the onus lies on us.

Can't blame illiterate people who have been brainwashed for generations.. When Caste system itself is institutionalized people don't have a choice. I have gone to the core of the problem. Fix the core issues rest will change automatically..
 
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