The Glory of the Mughal Empire

[Contrarian]

I already did actually.
Do those Indian Empires have anything close coming to this?

Yes.
There are architectural marvels galore in South India. There arent many left in North India because they were destroyed by some of the Mughals.

The Taj is more popular because of its a 'symbol of love'. The ones in South are Temples. Architecturally as amazing, but not as popular for tourists. Though that will change in a few years.

 

[Aepsilons]

@atatwolf , @mughal arslan shah mirza , @Contrarian , @hinduguy


Timurids and Mughals

The 14th century conqueror Timur , the eponymous founder of the Timurid Dynasty, was born into a noble family of the Barlas clan.One of his descendants, Zahir ud-Din Babur, later founded the Mughal Empire of Central Asia and South Asia. At the height of their power in the late 17th and early 18th centuries, they controlled much of the Indian subcontinent, extending from Bengal in the east to Kabul & Sindh in the west, Kashmir in the north to the Kaveri basin in the south. Its population at that time has been estimated as between 110 and 150 million, over a territory of more than 3.2 million square kilometres (1.2 million square miles).

Reference: Wikipedia

So yes, @mughal arslan shah mirza and @atatwolf are both correct. The first rulers of the Mughal Empire were , indeed, Central Asian. In fact, they were decendents of the Barlas Clan, which is a Mongol Clan.

 

[atatwolf]

Yes.
There are architectural marvels galore in South India. There arent many left in North India because they were destroyed by some of the Mughals.

The Taj is more popular because of its a 'symbol of love'. The ones in South are Temples. Architecturally as amazing, but not as popular for tourists. Though that will change in a few years.

Can you post pictures, because I couldn't find it

 

[Foot12]

I already did actually.


Do those Indian Empires have anything close coming to this?

Yep.
One of the Palaces of the Vijayanagar Empire

But unlike the Mughal rulers the rulers of the Vijayanagara Empire were also great patrons of science as the greatest
mathematicians of medieval India lived in the Vijayanagara Empire.

 

[Aepsilons]

REMARK: Can I saw awesome?! Mongols are truly adept at adapting into the subject culture. The Mongols (Yuan Dynasty) adopted the Chinese culture when they defeated China. When Mongols conquered present day Persia, and formed the Timurid Dynasty, they literally adopted the local culture...!

So on that note, Pakistanis and Indians who have Mughal ancestry can claim Mongol ancestry....all the way back tot he Barlas Clan.

 

[livingdead]

I already did actually.


Do those Indian Empires have anything close coming to this?

true, taj is unmatched in beauty but since when we started judging an empire by the monuments they made.

 

[mughal arslan shah mirza]

I already did actually.


Do those Indian Empires have anything close coming to this?

No hard feelings

But you should know that Ottoman and Safavid painting who were also Turkic have Asiatic looking people because that is what Turkic peoples are. Look at Turkic countries in Central Asia.

Bro, of course! I know all about it and thanks for the heads up. Actually this is why I was genuinely curious to know about these depictions of Babur etc. I know that the Safavids were Turkmen (Aq qounlu, Qara qounlu etc.) and lot's of Qizilbash etc.
And Anatolia without Turks would be a different story so of course I know about it.
You should post your picture and let the jury decide if you look like Babur Shah

 

[atatwolf]

Yep.
One of the Palaces of the Vijayanagar Empire

But unlike the Mughal rulers the rulers of the Vijayanagara Empire were also great patrons of science as the greatest
mathematicians of medieval India lived in the Vijayanagara Empire.

Meh :p

Maybe the interior is better?

true, taj is unmatched in beauty but since when we started judging an empire by the monuments they made.

Thanks for your honestly unlike others

 

[livingdead]

REMARK: Can I saw awesome?! Mongols are truly adept at adapting into the subject culture. The Mongols (Yuan Dynasty) adopted the Chinese culture when they defeated China. When Mongols conquered present day Persia, and formed the Timurid Dynasty, they literally adopted the local culture...!

So on that note, Pakistanis and Indians who have Mughal ancestry can claim Mongol ancestry....all the way back tot he Barlas Clan, which was part of the Golden Horde.

mongols raped and pillaged most of asia, so huge number of people can claim mongol ancestry..

 

[Aepsilons]

mongols raped and pillaged most of asia, so huge number of people can claim mongol ancestry..

lol. Since you put it like that....

 

[Contrarian]

@Contrarian

I think that in the situations of Large Empires, constant wars are inevetible to maintain the integrity of these lands and forcibly induce the loyalty of subject peoples and tributary kings. I would draw similarity between Mughal Rulers who had to make war against Rajputr rebellions, Sikh rebellions in order to maintain imperial solidarity -- with that of the Burmese King Bayinnaug, who is referred to by modern day Burmese , Thais, and Laotians as "The Ruler of 10 Directions" due to his forays and conquest into foreign lands. King Bayinnaug conquered the Ayuthayan Empire (Thai kingdom), Lan Xang Kingdom (Laos), Lanna Kingdom, Lovek Kingdom (Cambodia), parts of Malaya, all of Present day Burma, parts of Bangladesh and parts of southern China. During his life , he had to make constant wars in order to keep in line all the tributary states. As soon as he died tho, his empire collapsed.

This was not the case for Aurangzeb. He deliberately went ahead and started wars without any need. The tributary kings were already subservient to him.
Think of it, many generations of his predecessors had already ruled.

He started wars which he could not win. Had he won those wars, it would not have been an issue. But he could not.
His greatest ancestor Akbar understood that some kingdoms just could not be conquered by force, so he used other tactics. He married the Rajput princes to keep the loyalty of the Rajputs. It worked. Rajputs became his fiercest allies.

He was driven not by the need to keep his hold on the Empire, but by religious bigotry. He started persecution against Hindus, Sikhs, to some level even Muslim Shias. I hope you understand the point now.
This was the reason he started wars he could not finish. To sustain those wars that he started needlessly, he bankrupted the treasury and gave away the lands. Ultimately that caused the end of the Mughals.

 

[atatwolf]

You should post your picture and let the jury decide if you look like Babur Shah

Middle guy.

 

[Aepsilons]

This was not the case for Aurangzeb. He deliberately went ahead and started wars without any need. The tributary kings were already subservient to him.
Think of it, many generations of his predecessors had already ruled.

He started wars which he could not win. Had he won those wars, it would not have been an issue. But he could not.
His greatest ancestor Akbar understood that some kingdoms just could not be conquered by force, so he used other tactics. He married the Rajput princes to keep the loyalty of the Rajputs. It worked. Rajputs became his fiercest allies.

He was driven not by the need to keep his hold on the Empire, but by religious bigotry. He started persecution against Hindus, Sikhs, to some level even Muslim Shias. I hope you understand the point now.
This was the reason he started wars he could not finish. To sustain those wars that he started needlessly, he bankrupted the treasury and gave away the lands. Ultimately that caused the end of the Mughals.

Thanks for that input @Contrarian . Yes, he shouldn't have projected uncessary zealotry, but should have modeled his rule after his ancestor, Emperor Jahangir the Great, who was a true spiritualist and fostered understanding and cooperation between Hindus, Muslims, Jains, Buddhists and Christians!

Good points bro. Thanks!

 

[atatwolf]

Younger picture of Babur for comparison

 

[livingdead]

Thanks for that input @Contrarian . Yes, he shouldn't have projected uncessary zealotry, but should have modeled his rule after his ancestor, Emperor Jahangir the Great, who was a true spiritualist and fostered understanding and cooperation between Hindus, Muslims, Jains, Buddhists and Christians!

Good points bro. Thanks!

I thought that guy was akbar?
akbar started his own religion, not many subscribed to it, and he was not a zealot to force it on others.