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The Future of Kashmir? "Seven" Possible Solutions!

because, we love Pakistan and Kashmir is rightfully ours.

but looking beyond plain powder-form nationalism --- look beyond it and realize that most Pakistanis would most likely be in favour of a UN-mandated plebicite whereby Kashmiris would exercise their inalienable right to self-determination

it is so much to ask for? Why is hindustan so scared of it?



its a disputed territory, but let the people think that if that's what they want....

if it really is an ''integral part of india'' then, BOY!!!! You really don't know how to treat ''your'' civilians exercising their right to protest

save the heavy-handedness for the naxalites, that's where your forces should be 100% focusing

In Indian system of democracy, residents of one state can not vote on whether they want to stay in the country or not. If a vote needs to happen on future of Kashmir, it will be from all of INdia and not just the residents of one state. And that vote happens every 5 years

we were one of the fastest growing WORLD economies just a few years back, and our position on Kashmir was the exact same; therefore I see little merit in what you said

civil fabric is fine, and a lot of people (myself included) are optimistic that there is something good that will come out of this difficult period we are undergoing. At such young age, Pakistan is already learning lessons that other nations took decades, centuries to learn.

It all goes down to leadership and connection with the masses. Current administration is not doing that for whatever reason.


as for our position on Kashmir, we havent moved in inch. And dont expect us ever to. Kashmir issue is indeed ingrained in the hearts and minds of every single Pakistani man, woman, child, and even the wildlife and insects.

You were fastest growing for a brief span under Musharraf and please understand that the negative impact of policies like the one Zia created takes time to manifest. Last 25 years of supporting insurgencies is resulting in the spiral that Pakistan's economy is seeing now. Hopefully I will be proven wrong, but I dont see Pakistan's economy getting back to its winning ways for next 5-10 years.

And stand on Kashmir is not detrimental to Pakistan, but the way Pakistan has been taking that stand thru use of militancy is..
 
Former CIA official urges early solution of Kashmir dispute

* Calls on US to intervene for solving the longstanding issue


By Iftikhar Gilani

NEW DELHI: Former Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) official Robert Grenier on Wednesday called for an early solution to the Kashmir dispute for promoting greater regional stability.

"Without a settlement of the Kashmir dispute, the Indo-Pak proxy battle which greatly complicates the prospects for a negotiated settlement in Afghanistan is unlikely to abate," the former CIA chief of station in Islamabad said. Grenier, writing for the al Jazeerah news network, believed that without solving the Kashmir dispute, it would be difficult to isolate the terrorists who pose an existential threat to Pakistan. He was of the view that such terrorists could effectively undermine a nuclear-armed state and provoke a nuclear face-off between Islamabad and New Delhi. The former CIA official urged the US to use India's desire for attaining 'greater power' in the South Asian region, as a diplomatic toll to encourage the settlement of the Kashmir dispute.

He said the recent violence in Indian-held Kashmir (IHK), which killed 15 civilians, had highlighted the "centrality of Kashmir and the Kashmiris" in the longstanding dispute. Urging the US to intervene for the resolution of the Kashmir dispute, Grenier observed that both India and Pakistan were not capable of solving the issue on their own. "Rather than using the Indians' desire for greater power status as an effective diplomatic tool to encourage steps leading to a settlement of Kashmir, the US policy is working assiduously to sabotage the process," he complained.

The former CIA official said that the US was undermining its own interests by encouraging India to follow the American model of dealing with terrorism solely as an illegitimate political tool without addressing the root causes of the menace.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
 
Protesters, police face off on streets of Kashmir

* Kashmiris say they have run out of patience waiting for Pakistan, India to get peace efforts back on track
* Say Kashmiris are forced to resort to stone-pelting



SRINAGAR: The capital of Indian-held Kashmir (IHK) is seething with rage.

Over the past month, crowds of young men demanding independence from India have held mass protests and pounded police with stones.

Authorities hit back with rolling curfews, large-scale arrests and a rare deployment by the army into the streets of Srinagar.

The violence, which has killed 15 protesters and bystanders, set a tense backdrop for a meeting on Thursday between the foreign ministers of India and Pakistan, nuclear-armed neighbours that fought two wars over the divided Himalayan region and have been unable to reach agreement over its future.

Hopes for the talks were further clouded after the top official in Azad Jammu and Kashmir called on thousands of members of banned militant groups on Tuesday to drive India out of all of Kashmir.

Those inside Kashmir say they have run out of patience waiting for the two countries – who each claim the entire region as its own – to get their peace efforts back on track after the 2008 Mumbai attacks. Now, they are taking matters into their own hands.

“People have lost faith,” separatist leader Mirwaiz Umar Farooq said from his home in Srinagar, where authorities are keeping him under house arrest after he led several street marches. “The constituency of peace is shrinking day by day.”

In the nearly empty alleys and warrens of Srinagar, “Go Back India” is carved into wooden doors, painted on the streets and written in careful block letters on the walls. Razor wire is uncoiled across roads as paramilitary forces in helmets and padded vests enforce curfew restrictions that have been in place on-and-off since last month.

A war between armed insurgents and government forces that began in 1989 and left 68,000 dead has ebbed, with militant violence dropping every year. The new protesters favour marches, sit-ins and rock barrages to challenge the security forces ubiquitous throughout the cities, towns and villages of IHK.

“We don’t want the world to see us as hooligans carrying guns. We want a peaceful movement, but we are forced to resort to stones,” said Ahmed, a 27-year-old coppersmith, as he drank milky tea in a bare concrete room off an alley.

Like all the protesters interviewed, Ahmed declined to give his last name for fear he would be picked up by security forces who have arrested hundreds of people in recent weeks, including the head of Kashmir’s Bar Association.

Life in the Nowshera now follows a daily rhythm. The security forces keep the area locked down during the day and when they withdraw in the evening, the residents come out of their homes and bombard them with stones, said Ahmed. Troops retaliate by smashing windows on their way out, he said.

“The harder they push, the harder we become,” said Shafat, 25, whose brother was disappeared, and presumably killed, in 1991.

Outside, a group of men sitting in front of a shop jump up and instinctively run when they hear a car turn the corner, presuming it to be paramilitary troops.

Many protest leaders have gone underground, and students Naweed, 21, and Ubaid, 20, were so concerned about being nabbed they sent Associated Press journalists to a series of destinations, where they would call with new directions, to ensure they were not being followed.

The men demanded India immediately withdraw the security forces from the cities and towns, rescind laws giving troops special powers here and release those arrested. ap

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
 
Thousands protest in IHK as curfew lifted

SRINAGAR: Thousands of protesters poured into the centre of the summer capital of Indian-held Kashmir (IHK) on Thursday after authorities lifted restrictions for the first time in five days. The region has been wracked by demonstrations since June 11 when security forces were accused of killing a 17-year-old. Since then, another 14 protesters and bystanders have been killed. As violence spread, local authorities slapped rigid curfews on most of the region, arrested activists and ordered the army onto the streets to stage flag marches in Srinagar. Kashmiris, mostly young men chanting “We Want Freedom!” and “Allah Is Great!” staged sit-in protests at several places in Srinagar on Thursday, heeding a call by separatists opposed to Indian rule in the region. “We are watching the situation closely. If need arises we may re-impose restrictions on the movement of the people,” a police officer, who asked not to be named, told AFP. Shops, schools and offices also remained closed for the fifth day running on Thursday on the call of separatists opposed to the Indian rule. Kashmir is divided between India and Pakistan, which administer it jointly but claim it in full. afp

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
 
What else to expect from Pakistani media on Kashmir... :azn:

Why doesn't India counter that. Your media should go to Kashmir and show the truth.

Banning Pakistani media only strenthen the view that some thing was wrong in Kashmir that was being reported by the Pakistani media and ignored by the Indian media.
 
Already on page 89 and still growing. I don't know how humans ever agreed on issues and formed civilizations...quite an achievement for such stubborn species.

Pakistanis want Kashmir and so do the Indians. How about we stop thinking about what we want and let the Kashmiris decide for themselves. That's right a plebiscite. This was supposed to be done years ago but never happened.

In lots of posts that I read Indians rejected this and proposed that Pakistan should first stop insurgency because according to some geniuses on this forum a lot of Kashmiris are convinced by Pak sponsored insurgents to rebel against India and support the "Kashmir joining Pakistan scenario". If you think it's so easy to convince large groups of people like that then India should make use of the thousands of soldiers it has in Kashmir and hold a plebiscite, which will surely result in Kashmir joining India, right?

Here is a news flash...No body has the power to enforce its will on thousands of Kashmiris. So why don't we hold a plebiscite on both sides of Kashmir under UN's supervision and let the Kashmiris figure out their own future.

If there are any other geniuses out there who still disagree on a plebiscite under UN's supervision (Note: Under UN's supervision is the most important part here) here is a tip, don't post what you have to say. The most basic reason is that any solution to Kashmir would require a plebiscite...and most importantly if you are going to mention "peace first and then a plebiscite", that would never happen. Even if Pakistan stopped supporting insurgency, Kashmiri people would arm themselves or at least rebel still even if unarmed, as it can be seen on daily basis in Indian controlled Kashmir.
 
Why doesn't India counter that. Your media should go to Kashmir and show the truth.

Banning Pakistani media only strenthen the view that some thing was wrong in Kashmir that was being reported by the Pakistani media and ignored by the Indian media.

no point.. you can cure blind, but cant do much with the one who wants to keep his eyes shut...

The hate is so intense that both India and Pakistan have shut their eyes towards the positive aspects of each other..
 
Ever since the Autumn of 1947, when under the pretext of a controversial letter of accession by the last Dogra ruler of Jammu and Kashmir, to the last British Governor General of India Lord Mont Batten, followed by India's invasion on the former princely state, the history has been recording frequent street skirmishes, and bloody episodes between India and the Kashmiris.

Although every time India trumpeted her victory on the ''separatists'' in the name of fake and farce elections, but it could never think of pulling out her military and paramilitary forces from Jammu and Kashmir. Each post- 1947 decade, has its own history of turbulence very different from the law and order problem of a country.

The failure of the Indian leadership to respect the free will of the people disturbed and complicated the whole affair and led to a repressive and bloody state policy, resulting in the current quit Kashmir agitation against the armed forces of India by unarmed youth who are the product of post 1990 Indian policies, ordinances and laws in Jammu and Kashmir.
The rage of the Kashmiris is like flying sparks and fire- balls, which can't be measured in terms of simple local grievances, and hence this fire can't be easily extinguished or simmered down.

It is after every innocent killing and atrocity that people find a genuine cause to come out on the streets in huge numbers; highlight their basic demand of the right of self determination and pour scorn on the Indian army and police which enjoy immunity under some draconian laws since 1990.Nodoubt every state in the world has some internal trouble, but the turmoil in Kashmir can't be attributed to some economic or social problems; it is more than that.
We must go back to the genesis of the Kashmir dispute and the history of Indian rule in Kashmir. India broke her promises with the people not once but many times during the last several decades. Therefore, there is hate against Indian occupation of Kashmir—rooted deep in their ethos and blood.

India should not pretend to be ignorant, she should not say why. India must ask her military men in the field as to how humiliatingly they have been treating the Kashmiris, men, women and children; they have been plundering their green gold and meadows in the forests for the last two decades. India is reaping its harvest in Kashmir.
Again India's total refusal to grant the right of self determination to the Kashmiris fanned unrest and discontent in Kashmir. A young generation in every decade spearheads the movement of freedom and a retiring generation leaves space for the fresh blood. Nowadays our youth is the torch bearer of freedom. It has been experienced in every decade –before and after the death of Sheikh Abdullah.
Unfortunately India always maligned Kashmiris, and spread malice against them across the country. In her malicious propaganda, India was encouraged by the lusty politicians and rulers of the state of Jammu and Kashmir. They still enjoy reveries and wishfully think that Kashmiris patience would exhaust, to finally give in before India. But the idiom'' water off a duck's back'' is not applicable here.
Having said all this, I would caution the people on two vital points. First is the peaceful and popular character of the current political struggle. It must be maintained at all costs and further strengthened by isolating the elements of duplicity, destruction and sabotage. This will ensure support of an overwhelming majority to it.

Peaceful public struggle is more lasting than any mode of armed disturbance, which cripples a poor nation and ruins its socio-economic fabric more easily. Moreover, in the present scenario an armed struggle for a just and noble cause has to face the opposition of a global nature. Here India is the sole benefactor. Pakistan is our moral and diplomatic supporter. It is also an active member of the war on terror.'' Yet the country is dubbed as ''the current Al Qaeda epicenter.

'' Kashmiris must understand well that the Muslim rulers in spite of their land, population and energy potentials tremble by one statement of the US or West. In a high level meeting with the leadership of the AJK, I had suggested only one day shutter down call before the base camp Govt. to show solidarity with the people of Kashmir. But they didn't go beyond condolence messages.
My second point and I would suggest humbly that the current agitation must not deviate from its national agenda of the right of self determination. We had no global agenda, never, ever. We have no extra-territorial political and strategic ambitions. Our right to self determination has been recognized by the United Nations and this is now our national slogan. It is the duty of the torchbearers of the current awakening to plead and protect these objectives of the nation, and try to win over the world opinion.

The real leadership—vanguard of the present uprising must take all possible measures to project the voice of the people in a manner that would accord it world vide sympathy, and acceptance. It is the duty of this leading generation to protect the movement against all types of mischief by saboteurs, exploiters, and hypocrites—politically ambitious elements of the society. The goal of the freedom fighting Kashmiri must be unambiguously noble and humble—to promote the cause of the tortured humanity of Kashmir, and gain maximum support for it from the international community.
It is sad that the issue of Kashmir—the right of self determination is in the eyes of many a foredoomed and forgotten question, and the glorious sacrifices of our people are being ignored by the world. Surprisingly our own Ummah is silent over the bloodshed of the Kashmiris. The slogans of freedom, wailing cries of suffering people; the army and police operations against civilians don't find any space in the newspapers. No television channel has the time to show the tragic episodes of Kashmir to their listeners.

Yet they say that Kashmir is an international question; for Pakistan it is a national issue. As per the coverage of the national issue is concerned, we should ask our well wishers to watch the screen, judge the coverage of Kashmir and put the news stories under microscope. In this gloom how can we tell others to focus upon the current situation in Kashmir? We are in a deep slumber, not that we don't watch or read anything; but in the sense that we have developed vested interests here and there, in and out.

The time calls on us to weed out the dead wood from the forest. The freedom in the box or prison is no freedom at all. Rage in the present day Kashmir reflects a lasting message for the world.
Note: The write is Chairman Jammu and Kashmir People's Freedom League and Senior Executive member of APHC AJK/Pak
 
no possible solution without war....because india and pakistan both will never accept independent Kashmir...and both will never accept current border...
 
The point is, we have had wars in the past. But we have not consolidated on our gains then.

Every inch of enemy territory won in war is won at a high cost, paid for by the blood of your fallen soldiers who made the supreme sacrifice.

I believe that returning such land after cessation of hostilities is an act of treason against the nation.

Cheers, Doc
 
The point is, we have had wars in the past. But we have not consolidated on our gains then.

Every inch of enemy territory won in war is won at a high cost, paid for by the blood of your fallen soldiers who made the supreme sacrifice.


I believe that returning such land after cessation of hostilities is an act of treason against the nation.

Cheers, Doc

Your quote or sourced one?
 
The very survival of pakistan and millions of its farmers working in agriculture sector depends on Kashmir. Only two solutions are accecptable to Pakistan.

Scenerio 7 of dividing Kashmir across the lines of river chenab
Acceding entire Kashmir to Pakistan.
 
^^^^But thatmeans you don't want to do what the valley Kashmiris want which is independance. Plus that would require Rajouri andPoonch districts as well as Leh and Kargil to go to Pakistan which are completely hostile to even independance.

Do you want what Kashmiris want or what GoP wants?
 
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^ I hope your question is rhetorical only. The whole world knows that this Pakistani stand of "What Kashmiris want" is a lie at best. Thats why there are no takers in the world body for this stand (apart from a few inconsequential voices)
 

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