The Future of Kashmir? "Seven" Possible Solutions!

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You seem to have a point here Xeric. So India is not wanted in Kashmir and should move out to save itself further painful consequences. By that token my friend, Pakistan is not wanted in Balochistan. Pakistan is not wanted in Afghanistan. And Pakistan is most definitely not wanted in Waziristan, all along your NWFP, and FATA. And now you may add your Punjab to the list also apparently. So stop fingering and save yourself broken teeth. Give in to the TTP and BLA. Respect Afghan claims on territory you hold. Leave those damn places brother. Show us unintelligent and illogical Indians how its done. Move out.

Bad analogies - all of the territories mentioned in your post became part of Pakistan through one sort of representative process or another, under the rules of partition.

The accession of Princely States was subject to plebiscite under the rules of partition, a point endorsed by the UNSC in its resolutions on Kashmir, and accepted by both India and Pakistan. India carried out a plebiscite in Junagadh after invading it despite the accession of the State to Pakistan - that plebiscite has not yet been honored in J&K, which makes the accession incomplete, and which means the rights of the people of the State remain suspended and violated.

That is the basis on which 'India should move out', not necessarily literally, but in allowing the Kashmiris to determine their own destiny.

If we are going to drag in any territory that is inflicted by violence in a nation into this discussion, then India would have to break up into a dozen or so pieces.

 

[Jade]

Guys, we have just been issued a cyber threat!

Run, before he internet-punch you.

I am dead serious. Even that is GOI official position.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

@xeric ,

There is only one solution to Kashmir Problem. End you occupation of *** and return it back to India. We can always renegotiate Indus water treaty to Pakistan’s advantage

Absolutely, under the rules of partition (plebiscite to confirm accession) and the UNSC resolutions - that is come to an agreement on the demilitarization of the region and allow the UN or some other neutral body to hold a plebiscite that complies with the rules of partition and the UNSC resolutions of sel-determination for the Kashmiris.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

@xeric ,

There is only one solution to Kashmir Problem. End you occupation of *** and return it back to India. We can always renegotiate Indus water treaty to Pakistan’s advantage

back to india??? joke of the day

learn the realities on the ground first

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I am dead serious. Even that is GOI official position.

Please raise the issue internationally to get support for it - you can't.

You know why? Because the international community has already addressed the issue under the UNSC resolutions, so if India takes the issue to the international community, of claiming all of J&K, the UNSC resolutions will come back into play.

No country, especially the Western world so enamored with human rights and democracy, is going to argue against the principle of self-determination endorsed by existing UNSC resolutions and required under the rules of partition. That is why, barring military conquest (which is unlikely for either side), India cannot really make any concerted move to claim all of J&K.

In any case, Nehru very explicitly stated that India wanted to maintain the LoC = IB when he withdrew from the UNSC resolutions unilaterally, and MMS has of late said the same thing, 'a solution to Kashmir with no re-drawing of borders'.

India's claim to all of J&K is just on paper now, no one takes it seriously given the statements and actions of India since the fifties on the issue.

 

[prodevelopment]

back to india??? joke of the day

learn the realities on the ground first

Reality on the ground is that even after your repeated attempts, 65% of J&K is still with India. And reality on the ground is that some of the part that was originally with Pakistan has been taken away by China. You want more ground realities?

What makes me laugh is that the so called sympathizers of Kashmiri sentiments refuse to hold plebiscites in ***. Sure, Indians are the oppressors. What's your excuse?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

China and India have already become economic engines of the total world economy. Pakistan is sitting the dust of the past when getting past Kashmir constructively with workable plans such as the Andorran Model and the non violent, peaceful efforts of the current JKLF leadership are available every day to proactively cross the goal line for the benefit of everyone.

You will find that it is Pakistan and Pakistanis that more than willing to explore dispute resolution models that do not convert the current LoC to the IB.

Becoming engines of the world economy does not mean those nations actions and policies are moral, correct and non-obstructionist. Indeed both China, in Tibet, and India, in Kashmir, have illustrated that both repressive Communism and a Secular Democracy can use force and violence to suppress millions and deny their rights ( in the case of J&K required under the rules of partition and the UNSC resolutions) for the sake of territorial expansion.

 

[Jade]

Absolutely, under the rules of partition (plebiscite to confirm accession) and the UNSC resolutions - that is come to an agreement on the demilitarization of the region and allow the UN or some other neutral body to hold a plebiscite that complies with the rules of partition and the UNSC resolutions of sel-determination for the Kashmiris.

As far my I know there is no such thing as “rules of partition”. Regarding UNSC resolutions, there are certain pre conditions that are to be met. If Pakistan was so serious about the UNSC resolutions, then why did it ceded a part of “disputed” land to China?

 

[Jade]

Please raise the issue internationally to get support for it - you can't.

You know why? Because the international community has already addressed the issue under the UNSC resolutions, so if India takes the issue to the international community, of claiming all of J&K, the UNSC resolutions will come back into play.

No country, especially the Western world so enamored with human rights and democracy, is going to argue against the principle of self-determination endorsed by existing UNSC resolutions and required under the rules of partition. That is why, barring military conquest (which is unlikely for either side), India cannot really make any concerted move to claim all of J&K.

In any case, Nehru very explicitly stated that India wanted to maintain the LoC = IB when he withdrew from the UNSC resolutions unilaterally, and MMS has of late said the same thing, 'a solution to Kashmir with no re-drawing of borders'.

India's claim to all of J&K is just on paper now, no one takes it seriously given the statements and actions of India since the fifties on the issue.

If what you claim is true, which I doubt, why no country, except maybe some OIC countries, is insisting on UNSC resolutions? Why is the international community asking Pakistan and India to solve the problems bilaterally? Why is the international community not trying to mediate?

 

[Jade]

back to india??? joke of the day

learn the realities on the ground first

Do you think the resolution passed by Indian Parliament on Jammu & Kashmir dated 22-Feb-1994 asking Pakistan to give back the occupied land is a joke? Then I cannot help.

 

[Xeric]

Reality on the ground is that even after your repeated attempts, 65% of J&K is still with India. And reality on the ground is that some of the part that was originally with Pakistan has been taken away by China. You want more ground realities?

What makes me laugh is that the so called sympathizers of Kashmiri sentiments refuse to hold plebiscites in ***. Sure, Indians are the oppressors. What's your excuse?

You missed one point here - it is india who seeks annexation of Kashmir by force against the will of the people. We did what was guud for the Kashmiri people and we dont see india doing the same.

If we keep aside the 'sponsored' polls we would know that india has no face in Kashmir and is merely carrying the stick on the basis of barbarity and nothing else.

You hold 65% of Kashmir and feel pride in it without knowing that this is blood-pride (as in blood diamonds). This is shameful!

You know what i find strange is that the largest democracy claimant not only feel justified and satisfied on occupation of a state by force but also shamelessly propagate the same. But guess what, it isnt something new, if you people can support countries like israel on incidents like raid on freedom flotilla, one can expect any level of bestiality from your likes.

 

[American Eagle]

Does anyone read what has already been posted here?

The Andorran Model makes the LOC the final boundaries within all parts of Kashmir.

Pakistan, India, and China retain foreign affairs and national security for their respective parts of Kashmir.

The difference is the Kashmiris are allowed to elect a unified, single Parliament which can meet on a rotating basis in each part of Kashmir until some day, maybe, a single capital could be agreed on, which might be generations down the road.

But it would be a start.

Several well intentioned writers on this topic keep digressing and missing the points. If you care about the people of all parts of Kashmir, and you are filled with national pride, all these factors are allowed for under the Andorran Model.

Maybe it is incomprehensiable to some that a resolution which ends secret terrorist training camps and such on all sides is sitting there to be used, a clean cut vehicle.

A single Constitution of all parts of Kashmir is a longer term goal, a non-religious Constitution guaranting rights and protections to all believers of all faiths as well as to those who may choose to believe nothing.

 

[Xeric]

As far my I know there is no such thing as “rules of partition”. Regarding UNSC resolutions, there are certain pre conditions that are to be met. If Pakistan was so serious about the UNSC resolutions, then why did it ceded a part of “disputed” land to China?

Your argument of 'disputed land' is absolutely void. It has no basis what so ever. It is an indian creation so suite its ego and to make the Kashmir issue linger. By showing the only map of kashmir would make you claims justifiable. Had you claim been legitimate we should have seen some hue and cry from the international community over Azad Kashmir and especially the 'gifting; of territory to China, but in a face-palm to india we dont see that happening.

The international mapping agencies shows NA and whatever as part of Pakistan and has no issues. You tried the same tactics in Siachen (ignored the assessments of agencies like US geological survey which showed Siachen as a Pakistani territory and created a new myth basing of which you ingressed in Siachen) but it didnt work. This time also, you have miserably failed to lay an authoritative claim over our NA and the entire world, less you ofcourse does accede to it. You can keep on harping the flawed tune of NA and 'gifts' but no one's listening.


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i would request the mods that if the indians cant prove the basis of their claim over our NAs, GB etc, they should not be allowed to unfold their self created and self sponsored wet dreams on this board.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

they won't









because they can't

 

[Xeric]

Why is the international community asking Pakistan and India to solve the problems bilaterally?

You seem to have the problem of understand the context. You would just pick anything and put it forth in a manner that suites you.Solving the problem bilaterally doesnt mean that one should forget the UN resolution, infact it implies that both the countries should honor the international decree over the issue. Moreover, we dont see this international community of yours insisting on throwing the UN resolution into the bin. No one has negated the UN resolution over Kashmir and even if you are referring to the news piece where 'reportedly' the US urged that both the countries should resolve the issue through dialogue then allow me to enlighten you that it was india who resented over the advice.

So in short, indian neither wants the plebiscite nor does it want a dialogue, thus the only thing left is use of unjustified force against civilians and that's what india is doing.