The Future of Kashmir? "Seven" Possible Solutions!

[Munir]

Kashmir related and posted by birddog on Keymag... Good reply!

This statement shows how naive, immature and prejudiced you are. I have no love for the terrorist but lets be honest here. Not all terrorist are madrassa educated and not all madrassa educated people are terrorist. In fact most terrorist are not even muslims. Sucide bombing was invented by hindu tamils. India has seen more systematic terrorism and pogroms than any other country and invariably the perpretators are fundamentalist hindus and the victims are innocent minorities either muslims skihs or christians. As recently as 2002, 3000 were massacared in Gujarat. Thousand more sikhs massacred in earlier pogroms. What about state sponsored terrorism. By some reports Indian forces are responsible for upto 60,000 death of innocent civilians in Kashmir. And how is an elected christian religious fanatic any different from a madrassa educated fanatic? Instead of using IEDs he used the military might of his country to invade a country which was not a threat and in process contributed to addtional 500,000 innocent deaths and much more. What about Israel's terrorism against the innocent palestinians. Millions have been killed, maimed and made homeless. The palestinians did not start that conflict. What about hundreds of years of terrorism by europeans. Countries like Belgium and Holland who parade around as the great torch bearer of human rights have the worst track record of terrorism in their colonies. This is not ancient history. This was happening in first half of the last century. In recent years, the root causes of the so called Islamic terrorism lies in the policies and actions of Israel and India and the problem will not go away until they are fixed.

So don't be so holier than thou. A Hindu, or Jewish or Christian fanatic is no different from a muslim fanatic. In fact, if you go by sheer brutality and number of innocents deaths, the contribution by muslim fanatics is much less than their Christian, Jewish or Hindu counterparts.

 

[Nihat]

Sure , I'm no fan of attaching Religion to terrorism either - terror is terror.

Violence achieves nothing and I find it hard to recall when an armed insurgency last helped a nation achieve independence or any other kind of solution.

Political will is the only way both parties would be satisfied , however if a terrorist fires 1 bullet the IA will fire a 100 and this cycle may well continue for another 50 years and beyond.

 

[Tefal]

best solution is to accept LOC as borders and move on.

 

[zero]

sorry for it's a long thread for me to read all but I would prefer for status quo, resulting end of dispute and hostilities among both the nation, none would desire to loose its land, so I don't find s better solution to it.

 

[Fracker]

Kashmir is a disputed region, and LOC is not international boarder. Since many critics already done, i will point about some points which helped both country in progress.

1. Because of this, India and Pakistan both has concentrated on military more then anything. & now they are among super powers of the world.
2. Because of this, both country also worked on improving (i would say, to become better then other) which helped both countries to achieve what many other countries of the region couldn't achieve.

BUT, this doesn't mean that we should continue as it is, since what we are losing could be much more then gains. India and pakistan both has loss 1000s of troops, loss piece of lands (bangladesh to pakistan, and some of siya-chin to china), both are losing resources, both are even losing business since both countries has pretty good markets in neighbor but yet their more trade does happen to other countries, central asian resource can easily reach to india. I can go on and on with the benefits. Of course pakistan is losing more then india because of this issue. since pakistan's size is smaller then india. but in term of figures india is losing more then pakistan. But fact remain same, both are losing...

So both country should go for solving this issue, obviously both countries will look for their benefits and as a pakistani, i think the best solution if whole jammu kashmir or chenab river solution. but indian might like azad kashmir with them or LOC as permanent boarder. but if you calculate in terms then LOC, azad kashmir to india, and whole jammu kashmir to pakistan are not accepted to other sides at all. I should also add, indian politics is also against solving this problem since, which ever government losses the land might not able to get up in next election (as per those political parties point of view).

The best solution i think is kashmir valley & kargil to pakistan. It will be like india is giving all spending and yet enjoying all the resources. again it might also be equal as losing the land, but if they want to solve then this is the last solution which will be acceptable to them.

In this solution, both countries are scarifying, and still solving the solution. But main problem is, "are they really want to solve this"?

 

[maverick2009]

Nobody is giving up territory.

It wud be suicide for either country.

The status quo will be maintained

 

[dabong1]

@dabong1

Dear Sir,

Your proposal seems remarkably sane and may not bring out resistance except from fanatics on either side. Have you made this condominium proposal elsewhere before? What has been the reaction?

Sincerely,

'Joe S.'

PS There are other Pakistani fora where this issue has been debated. Have you seen any of those?

'Joe'

Most people have backed the proposal as a fair solution...indian, pakistani and kashmiri.

 

[Fracker]

I agree that having a plebiscite free of terror would be difficult but based on the opinion poll conducted only recently(right after the amarnath yatra controversy Nov2008-Feb2009) the results were still decisively against joining Pakistan. This included 69% of Valley muslims against joining pakistan as well! If the Amarnath issue had not been communalised by the JKLF and the BJP for petty political gain, then it might have been even higher.

So although Kashmiris are not happy with the Indian forces and their atrocities, they hate the militant fighters coming in from PaK much much more as they have also been involved in indiscriminate killing rapes and intimidation. So if they had to choose between India and Pakistan, they would still choose India as a lesser evil. Again this is based on the broad-based opinion poll. Again I suggest people to check out the report in its entirety at www.peacepolls.org.
The problem is that the media on both sides sensationalizes issues. Kashmiris, particularly muslims from the valley are portrayed in some Indian media as pro-pakistan, islamist and militant which is far from the truth. They see 2000-3000 people in "azadi" protests and forget that there are 9million+ people in the valleys who didnt.
Employment and corrupt administration is the number one issue for Kashmiris at the moment, lets see if Omar Abdullah can solve these problems.

I have attached tabled results of the opinion poll that shows 'unacceptable' percentage i.e. the percentage of respondents who would not accept this solution in any way. Very insightful.

ohh man, then why you are scared of polling as your government promised in 1949? do it, and finish the issue. Since you guyz are so much confidence.. If they don't want to be with us, then why should we care? But this will only happen after polling not like that where you have more then 5 lac army in the kashmir and expect they will speak the truth!!

 

[dabong1]

Nobody is giving up territory.

It wud be suicide for either country.

The status quo will be maintained

And we must carry on fighting and being enemies and buy weapons from the west........

 

[EjazR]

ohh man, then why you are scared of polling as your government promised in 1949? do it, and finish the issue. Since you guyz are so much confidence.. If they don't want to be with us, then why should we care? But this will only happen after polling not like that where you have more then 5 lac army in the kashmir and expect they will speak the truth!!

Polling is done every five years for state governments and centre governments in Kashmir with the recent polls having 60+% turnout.
Now how many polls have we seen in FANA or Karakoram valley or the part of J&K under China?

The "opinion polls" that were mentioned in my post was not Indian sponsored. It was independent polls done by an Irish peace institute. Infact, the Indian government might not even know about this. And the polls only show that what they really want is independence, not joinging India OR Pakistan. But the percentage of kashmiris against joining Pakistan is greater (by a few percentage points) than joining India. And if Omar Abdulla's government (chosen by the Kashmiris) can prove that he can provide good governance, that might increase as well.

Bottom line is, will Pakistan and China give up their parts of Kashmir if India wins the polls? I don't think so.

 

[ambijat]

The out of box solutions given, here:
1) is certainly not the south Asian approach, we do not solve our problems like that;
2) any compromise is arrived only by the mutual exchange;
3) an exchange happens only when there is desire to move on together;
4) desirousness of such a kind be seen in a manner in which there is asymmetric balance of power with ample scope to grow;
5) asymmetric balance of power is realised only by economic power first, military power, next and then the power to bring in peace, the third.
6) the time needed for such conditions is at least 5-7 years from now on;
7) by 2015 the solution is bound to arrive either way.
Things are perceivably moving in the desired direction, let's hope that all comes to final picture that satisfies all and nobody thinks of himself as a loser.
Thanks!

 

[ouiouiouiouiouioui]

has anyone seen the first page og this thread and the last page....

its so funny...that everthing on this world which will never happen has been discussed...except kasmir.....

.......u know its now about kasmiri people...niether pakistan is insane to fight india in kashmiri people who are not even part of their country presently (indian administered) and same for india...

u know one thing everbody overlooked.....it is not land...its is not kashmiri....it si "WATER"......and given the fact........the most practical solution on this earth except nuking each other is .......changing LOC into internationl border LOL

 

[Nihat]

First things first , the armed insurgency has to end , because until then India will not budge from the stated position that terrorism is no solution or means to it.

IF that ever happens then Solution no. 1 seems very viable to me although just plain conversion of LoC to IB will not work , it will need modifications.

More autonomy to the entire state from India - economic , infrastructural and political.

Opening up more transit routes to Pakistani Kashmir and easier transit for Kashmiri citizens of both sides.

Joint patrolling along sensitive areas of LoC (24*7) which are used for infiltration , this would reduce the trust deficit on both sides.

 

[sabir]

scenario 8........go back to 1947 (which is the start of problem)....merge India and Pakistan....and then ask Kashmiri people what they want.

Sorry for trolling but this problem doesnt have a solution.

 

[Omar1984]

scenario 8........go back to 1947 (which is the start of problem)....merge India and Pakistan....and then ask Kashmiri people what they want.

Sorry for trolling but this problem doesnt have a solution.

Dream on buddy! Pakistan is here to stay. I agree with one part of your nonsense post, ask the Kashmiri people what they want.