The Future of Kashmir? "Seven" Possible Solutions!

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

but old questions are repeated since no mutual satisfactory consensus is reached! when some pakistanis regurgitate the old arguements, then indians regurgitate our old stand. if the posts are going to be deleted, I hope that this would be applied to both sides, otherwise the plz let the debate continue.

Old questions are repeated when answers have been given - if he wants to then question the answers that is fine, but ignoring the answers and repeating the same question is a waste of time.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You have successively shown yourself to be more and more of a troll on this forum.

And your posts on other threads show the same tendency to flame and troll.

Good bye.

 

[suresh_]

@AM
it is right that you have answered some questions(though they havent been accepted completely), but you also showed more flexibility in the traditional stand of pak. so there was some consensus reached.
but when some pakistanis start bashing india due to their over zealous emotions by taking the old stand of portraying as if the fault lies only with india, then the indians have no way but to counter those arguements by raising the old questions. this has become a cycle.
I hope that you will take strict view of some pakistanis giving the same old arguements as well.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

@AM
it is right that you have answered some questions(though they havent been accepted completely), but you also showed more flexibility in the traditional stand of pak. so there was some consensus reached.
but when some pakistanis start bashing india due to their over zealous emotions by taking the old stand of portraying as if the fault lies only with india, then the indians have no way but to counter those arguements by raising the old questions. this has become a cycle.
I hope that you will take strict view of some pakistanis giving the same old arguements as well.

IPF and I have had this discussion several times. If you look at his profile you will notice he is an old member with a few hundred posts.

My warning to him came out of that history, not just on Kashmir, but other threads as well.

Secondly, I object to your painting my arguments as 'bashing India'. If you go back through this thread, and the UNSC resolutions thread, we have constructed our arguments indicating India's responsibility out of facts, sources, quotes (Nehru, UN officials etc.).

No one questions the fact that India accepted a resolution of the dispute in the UN under the UNSC resolutions. No one questions the fact that India also agreed to the condition of plebiscite for disputed states under the rules of partition.

If India accepted all of that, then why did Nehru change India's position in the mid to late fifties?

I think Indians need to seriously think about Nehru's role in this. I am not against compromising on Kashmir, but historical fact is fact and should not be made PC for the sake of 'harmony', and backing out of an agreement is violating it!

Pakistanis are coming to terms with the fact that our government created the suffocating conditions hat allowed secessionist sentiment to exist in EP, and we refer to it often when analyzing current instability. I think Indians also need to do some soul searching and realize that India also has skeletons in her closet.

 

[nwmalik]

kashmir issue will never be resolved. This is a trump card in the great game. It will be continued to be used by USA and allies to get what they want. The recent statement by Mr miliband is an example. This was done to rock the indians. Maybe they will sent troops to afghanistan more quickly.

 

[suresh_]

^ 'bashing india' was not aimed at you but some other members, if you want me to specify them, then I will.

we already know the role of nehru and think that he was foolish to promise plebiscite, I think he realised it himself and tried to distance india from the resolution.

anyways, lets not start all over again. I understood your point. but there are still lot of difference of opinions.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

^ 'bashing india' was not aimed at you but some other members, if you want me to specify them, then I will.

we already know the role of nehru and think that he was foolish to promise plebiscite, I think he realised it himself and tried to distance india from the resolution.

anyways, lets not start all over again. I understood your point. but there are still lot of difference of opinions.

Suresh _,

I agree on the difference of opinion and that it is hard to bridge, and believe me I appreciate the fact that members such as yourself, afriend, ahmedsidd and even our resident RSS member Roopesh ( to some degree) are interested in atleast exploring long term compromise options.

It helps move away from the 'same old same old'. Even if we cannot affect the policy makers, discussing things outside of the traditional policy straitjackets is a refreshing change, and who knows, maybe more and more Indians and Pakistanis will come around to the idea.

I would encourage the Pakistani members to also think beyond traditional viewpoints and look at the possibilities offered by a ten to twenty year peace, with a plebiscite at the end, or other such options, just to change things up a bit. I think if that peace agreement is also attached with increased trade and travel between India and Pakistan, when the time comes the plebiscite will be nowhere near as apocalyptic as it seems now.

 

[Captain03]

Well omar you keep repeating the same thing again and again, Brother there are two perceptions.
1. India is killing innocent civlians and supressing voice of Kashmiries.
2. Pakistan is fueling insurgency in kashmir by bombing innocent civilians forcing indian army to take more stricter measures in the name of security.

These are both contradictary beiliefs of the two country, unless these two notions are completely wiped out of the box then only a FAIR PLEBISCITE can be talked about. India have to come down from believing kashmir is an integral part of india, and you have to also come down from defining your own areas of kashmir and believing kashmir is part of pakistan( even though your support is for plebiscite ), and make sure your part of kashmir is restored to its 1947 definition and no outsiders are there in these place. Unless compromises are made no mandate would be fair enough. So dialogue should be in that direction with a stipulated time plan.

I dont know how well these would work out, because of the mistrust we are nourishing, as you yourselves have said from childhood you have heard only about the demon called india, and i dont know how well one can co-exists with a demon , but by anlysing the siutaiton i feel this would be a fair deal for all the three parties involved.

Now please dont ask for plebiscite NOW NOW NOW.. coz it is not going to happen NOW NOW NOW . Lets talk talk talk without divising plans to backstab each other

dude
i dont think u know much about kashmiri history
india is the only one not giving kashmiris a voice to choose their fate
look it up
[and stop winking so much]

 

[Captain03]

@AM
it is right that you have answered some questions(though they havent been accepted completely), but you also showed more flexibility in the traditional stand of pak. so there was some consensus reached.
but when some pakistanis start bashing india due to their over zealous emotions by taking the old stand of portraying as if the fault lies only with india, then the indians have no way but to counter those arguements by raising the old questions. this has become a cycle.
I hope that you will take strict view of some pakistanis giving the same old arguements as well.

DUDE U SAID THE GENOCIDE IN KASHMIR DOESNT EXIST!!!!!
wat the hell is wrong with u
ur worster than the people who deny the holocaust

 

[ahmeddsid]

AM, We are talking here, but why havent these Solutions like the 10 year solution been explored by our leaders?? We thought them out instantaneously and they are simple. I believe there are entities in bot Pak and India who dont want Peace to Dawn in the valley! There is a lot more than what meets the eye! We as citizens should do something!

 

[suresh_]

DUDE U SAID THE GENOCIDE IN KASHMIR DOESNT EXIST!!!!!
wat the hell is wrong with u
ur worster than the people who deny the holocaust

now, now. as soon as you start equating kashmir with holocaust, your opinions cant be taken seriously. there has been no genocide in kashmir, but there definitely was change in demographics of kashmir.
the innocent and the original inhabitors of kashmir are kashmiri pandits, they have forcefully made to runaway from their homes and live as refugees in their own country by the terrorists who are being 'hailed' as 'freedom fighters' by pak.

 

[dave007]

Kashmir is a probably remain on the back burner for many years to come. With both sides refusing to budge, there will never be a solution to the issue.
There will be more Milibands and Kofi Annans, but the there is not much international community can do now, even little in the future. Kashmir needs to be solved bilaterally. There is no need to internationalize the issue. After all even the UN resolution has never been binding on India.

 

[suresh_]

Kashmir is a probably remain on the back burner for many years to come. With both sides refusing to budge, there will never be a solution to the issue.
There will be more Milibands and Kofi Annans, but the there is not much international community can do now, even little in the future. Kashmir needs to be solved bilaterally. There is no need to internationalize the issue. After all even the UN resolution has never been binding on India.

I personally think that if the solution is delayed, it is better for india provided we find a method to deal with terrorism or atleast if we are able to keep it under control.

kashmiri are reconciling to the fact that they have to live in india and they are coming around to accept the democratic ways of india. separatism is steadily losing support. so, in the long run, it may not be bad for us to put off solving kashmir.

 

[ahmeddsid]

No, Kashmir is an issue to be fast tracked my friend. Terrorists are born everyday due to many issues, and you do know that even if the Kashmiris dont turn terrorists, a lot of Afghans and other nationals are ready to die for Kashmir as they are promised Heaven when Kashmir is delivered! We Need peace ASAP, and for that Kashmir needs to be fastracked I believe!

 

[Contrarian]

AM, We are talking here, but why havent these Solutions like the 10 year solution been explored by our leaders?? We thought them out instantaneously and they are simple. I believe there are entities in bot Pak and India who dont want Peace to Dawn in the valley! There is a lot more than what meets the eye! We as citizens should do something!

I am a citizen of India, and i dont believe or agree with this plan-the 10 year solution. I favour status quo. The day GoI agrees to such a mindless proposal is the day i will stand up to protest.

This has nothing to do with peace in the Valley. The valley is peacefull right now, and we'v had peacefull elections. Peace does not mean plebicite or anything else for that matter. It means normal functioning in the state. It means that the people are happy. People can be happy provided the right atmosphere, right functioning, right jobs, etc. It means there should be no excesses by the security forces there among a hundred other things.

What i do want however is that there should not be any violence in the valley, and the security forces to be checked. There have been not one but many instances, when the security forces there have abused their powers. This should be stopped somehow, there should be better checks and balances there. The Army regularly meets out punishments to those found guilty, but not nearly enough get caught. Then there are local policemen(Kashmiri) who abuse the citizens there, and what happens is that the Army gets the blame for their actions as well. Either ways, it has to and should stop.

Pakistan can not and will not be allowed to dictate the tempo of the Valley again. A wide variety of extremists in the valley have been shot in COIN ops, the momentum must not be lost. Every terrorist must be shot. But there must be adequate balances to ensure no innocent gets caught. A small percentage of errors are expected, but not even near the scale of what has gone on there for a long time.

Peace in the valley does not mean a compromise with Pakistan.