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The Future of Kashmir? "Seven" Possible Solutions!

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Xeric rightly ‘prescribed’ that you figure out the acronyms before yapping and wailing away. The fact that you would equate FATA to occupied Kashmir is alarming.

By the way, being a disputed territory where (CLEARLY) the masses are against the occupation –it is a delusional approach to consider it part of hindustan to begin with! In FATA, there is cooperation between local tribes and the security forces.

You will pretty much never see anti-Pakistan or anti-Army graffiti or other such sentiment in FATA. Not what I can say about occupied Kashmir. Pictures do indeed speak thousands of words.


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How convenient…..what about Bosnia or Kosovo? There were HUGE array of Islamics (some whom you could label fundamentalist) who were pro freedom and pro independence. If you look at Kosovo today, they hang the U.S. flag almost as much as they hang their own national flag. Very pro-American (independent) country

Countries do not cause breeding grounds for terrorism….conditions can cause people to become angry. And in all honesty, people who ARE angry at hindustan for its inhumane treatment of Kashmiris are very much justified in being so. So as a hindustany who is scared of further terrorist attacks, perhaps you should instead introspect and ask ‘WHY’





Al Jazeera had a report last month about how a huge number of the younger generation of anti-hindustan protestors are actually college students, some even pursuing graduate studies. It is an existentialist issue, not one in which poverty or poor economic conditions are manifesting themselves (for better or for worse)




See, now you are just trolling……no need to analye or comment on dust-bin-worthy garbage.




They are free to move anywhere under Pakistani control/influence that they desire. However, keep in mind that Kashmir is their home. Their land is there, their friends/family, their livelihoods. On one hand you call them ‘’your citizens’’ (derived from hindustans delusional notion that Kashmir is an ‘’integral part’’) and on the other hand you are contemplating giving them this generous ‘’choice’’ you proposed. Basically, you are saying you don’t care at all for the people of Kashmir whom you are occupying

This ‘phenomenon’ seems to be mirrored by the callous recklessness and total unprofessionalism being exhibited by the occupational sissy forces –who seem to have wanton disregard for human life in the valley. I am of the opinion that the stakeholders of this occupation are digging themselves in even deeper cow dung.






And if they don’t behave, continue to occupy it?? :rofl:

What are you, a pre-school teacher???


(Or perhaps pre-school student) :azn:





You are merely implying that, based on the statements of a few–many of whom hail from your own country it implies that it gives a true picture on the ground. Yes there are areas in Pakistan that could do with more ‘’state presence’’ (more to do with effective governance). Using the same logic, why can’t the Karzai administration along with ISAF fully ‘’govern’’ or establish writ in Afghanistan? You would think that with all the resources spent in the past 9+ years would have made the country ‘’governed’’ and prevented the scourge of drugs, weapons-pushing, smuggling, and terrorism from spreading across the border into Pakistan.

Of course you would leave that aspect out. You would also (again) forget that the Kashmiri struggle is not necessarily a religious one per se. Though Kashmir is a majority Muslim region; one that is loath to ever accept hindustani occupation





You, for one, seem blindly fixated on ‘fundamental Islamic forces’ and you fail to simply just point out that any religious fundamentalism is wrong –if and when it leads to hatred incitement and violence.

Most of the violence in Kashmir is due to frustrated youth who express their anger at an occupation they do not (and will never) accept; as a result, they protest (which is perfectly within their right) and they get shot with (live) ammunitions.

This is no new news. This has been going on for decades. With media taking a more dominant role in this ever-globalizing world - I, for one, would advise Kashmiris to continue to cover and document the atrocities being committed against them.

It is interesting to note that the world's so-called 'largest democracy’ banned SMS services; banned facebook in the valley (protestors were uploading pictures of the protests and creating pro-Kashmir groups on the networking site); and even place political leaders such as APHC chief under constant house arrest.


A FAILED strategy for failing occupational force that have no idea what to do next; no direction at all, due to their own oblivion.

You cannot convince us about most of your arguments. The state department is clear. There are working papers in the policy institutions that talk about the issues very much the same way as I do. We Americans are pretty clear as to what we dont want Kashmir to become - another afghanistan or pakistan. There is a reason we have put pakistan on a group of nations that we consider with extreme caution. In today's world, there is about as much chance as Pakistan becoming a secular state that the US would support or recognize kashmir's freedom movement.

According to the US State Policy, Pakistan does not have governance and is broke to have resources to effectively collect taxes and govern. All this is there in policy documents. Maybe you should read and analyze better.

We did not want Kuwait to become part of Iraq and we would not want Kashmir to become part of Pakistan. India governs much better than Pakistan. That is a given. You just cannot keep countering that. We just dont believe in that.

Again, Kosovo's independence calls came from the top echelons of their society including doctors, successful business folks and even American Kosovars. The fundamentalistic Islamic forces' calls over there we marginal - also rans. If you want to convince us over here, the more successful American Kashmiris have to play a huge role. If they cant get that message to us, despite living here, then our policy does not change much.

By the way, is it me, or did I get called Indian? (I am assuming Hindustany - place where Hindus reside - means India - wouldnt that be technically Nepal - as per CIA Factbook, the only Hindu country in the world?)

We do have Hindustani music here at Cooper Union in NYC. But some of the musicians from other countries - a turkish guy was part of the group - so is Hindustani Indian or something else? I guess it is wikipedia time.
 
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I am sure the Americans you met have pretty much the same thoughts as I have. We and the western world are pretty much an image driven country. And we all hate fundamentalistic forces. If Kashmiris are seeking freedom because of their fundamentalistic beliefs - hmm, nada, no support from us.

Buddy, you know what, you are not at all sure.

You are Wrong!

May be i should give you the names of some yanks (also some serving US personnel especially the USAF) who say israel (the US support to it, precisely) is the cause of all ills.

And oh yes, they also supported Kashmir - their right to self determinate!

FAIL!
 
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You cannot convince us about most of your arguments. The state department is clear. There are working papers in the policy institutions that talk about the issues very much the same way as I do. We Americans are pretty clear as to what we dont want Kashmir to become - another afghanistan or pakistan. There is a reason we have put pakistan on a group of nations that we consider with extreme caution. In today's world, there is about as much chance as Pakistan becoming a secular state that the US would support or recognize kashmir's freedom movement.

According to the US State Policy, Pakistan does not have governance and is broke to have resources to effectively collect taxes and govern. All this is there in policy documents. Maybe you should read and analyze better.

We did not want Kuwait to become part of Iraq and we would not want Kashmir to become part of Pakistan. India governs much better than Pakistan. That is a given. You just cannot keep countering that. We just dont believe in that.

Again, Kosovo's independence calls came from the top echelons of their society including doctors, successful business folks and even American Kosovars. The fundamentalistic Islamic forces' calls over there we marginal - also rans. If you want to convince us over here, the more successful American Kashmiris have to play a huge role. If they cant get that message to us, despite living here, then our policy does not change much.

By the way, is it me, or did I get called Indian? (I am assuming Hindustany - place where Hindus reside - means India - wouldnt that be technically Nepal - as per CIA Factbook, the only Hindu country in the world?)

We do have Hindustani music here at Cooper Union in NYC. But some of the musicians from other countries - a turkish guy was part of the group - so is Hindustani Indian or something else? I guess it is wikipedia time.

Thank you sir for injecting a dose of sanity in :pdf:
 
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Buddy, you know what, you are not at all sure.

You are Wrong!

May be i should give you the names of some yanks (also some serving US personnel especially the USAF) who say israel (the US support to it, precisely) is the cause of all ills.

And oh yes, they also supported Kashmir - their right to self determinate!

FAIL!

My friend, nothing is happening unless India supports it. Why is it so difficult to understand?
 
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Buddy, you know what, you are not at all sure.

You are Wrong!

May be i should give you the names of some yanks (also some serving US personnel especially the USAF) who say israel (the US support to it, precisely) is the cause of all ills.

And oh yes, they also supported Kashmir - their right to self determinate!

FAIL!

Sure...there are divergent views. There are conspiracy theory nuts here beginning with the Roswell UFO incident in the 1920s (and I am sure even before that). But what does our government think? What do the majority of our people think? On what planks are our foreign policy staged on? Have you researched all that? Have you gotten a pulse on that? This is a nice forum. Lets be objective here. It is not like we are unfavorable toward Pakistanis (remember despite all this top pakistanis are eligible for hire for some of the top jobs here; we still go by merit and talent) for no reason. We have been driven to that point. The misuse of our flight schools by pakistani students who later used that training to crash into these buildings...all that rankles us and 9/11 will never fade from our memories as witnessed by the memorial service this year. Ten years ago, a lot of cabs in NYC had Pakistani drivers. Today most of them are not. Why do you think that is? You all need to get a pulse on our nation. Anywho I have typed too many posts than I wanted to. But 9/11 memorial service got the soft side ut of me, I guess. What a terrible tragedy for this nation. I hope Indian and Pakistani members will sympathize with us.
 
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You cannot convince us about most of your arguments. The state department is clear. There are working papers in the policy institutions that talk about the issues very much the same way as I do. We Americans are pretty clear as to what we dont want Kashmir to become - another afghanistan or pakistan. There is a reason we have put pakistan on a group of nations that we consider with extreme caution. In today's world, there is about as much chance as Pakistan becoming a secular state that the US would support or recognize kashmir's freedom movement.

According to the US State Policy, Pakistan does not have governance and is broke to have resources to effectively collect taxes and govern. All this is there in policy documents. Maybe you should read and analyze better.

We did not want Kuwait to become part of Iraq and we would not want Kashmir to become part of Pakistan. India governs much better than Pakistan. That is a given. You just cannot keep countering that. We just dont believe in that.

Again, Kosovo's independence calls came from the top echelons of their society including doctors, successful business folks and even American Kosovars. The fundamentalistic Islamic forces' calls over there we marginal - also rans. If you want to convince us over here, the more successful American Kashmiris have to play a huge role. If they cant get that message to us, despite living here, then our policy does not change much.
This is precisely what i have been writing about here regarding a root-cause analysis of why the Kashmir-freedom movement has a higher chance of failure ; The movement is NOT pan-Kashmiri ; It is only dominated in the Sunni-majority Kashmir valley which incidentally is dominated by the pro-Pakistani separatists, who even reject a greater Autonomy option. And given the history of Pakistan as being in the bad books of the West, is again a major concern for them supporting the Kashmir Independence movement. The only glimmer of hope that the Kashmir movement can have is making a major case of Human-rights oppression across the Entire valley which Kashmiris (one and all, including parties like NC, PDP, plus counting the Kashmiri pandits) make against the GoI ; which again is not the ground situation. Finally, arson, pillage and violence all but makes the case even worse against the Independence movement.
 
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India heading to surrender to Pakistan in IHK: Advani

NEW DELHI: Opposition Bharatiya Janata Party veteran Lal Krishna Advani expressed concern on Tuesday over what he termed India’s impending surrender to Pakistan’s proxy war in Indian-held Kashmir”, adding, “Each passing day strengthens our apprehension that the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) government is about to capitulate before Pakistan-supported secessionists.” “I would like to warn the UPA government that if they decide to bow before the secessionists’ designs in IHK, the country will not pardon them... in the name of autonomy we cannot allow the process of Kashmir’s integration to be reversed,” he said in his valedictory address at a two-day training course attended by 116 party spokespersons from 24 Indian states. “There is talk of a ‘political solution’ to the Kashmir issue. Instead of giving a fitting reply to the secessionists, the government has been demonising the security forces. There is continuing talk of diluting the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA), and withdrawal of the forces! This is nothing but a surrender before Islamabad’s strategy of breaking India’s post-1947 unity,” Advani said He added that it was exactly what the military rulers of Pakistan had been “dreaming of ever since their defeat in Bangladesh War of Liberation in 1971”, adding, “the situation in IHK was indeed alarming.” “There is no government worth to name in Jammu and Kashmir. It has completely collapsed, ceding the ground to secessionists. The mess in Kashmir is not the making of only the government in Srinagar. In New Delhi, the UPA government is totally clueless and spineless,” Advani added. “There is talk of granting ‘maximum autonomy’ to Kashmir. Decoded, it means giving it its pre-1953 status. Far from repealing Article 370, the UPA government looks all set to repeal years and decades of our collective gains in Kashmir, all because of its lack of will, vision, commitment and competence,” Advani said. He went on to remind the Indian prime minister and Congress leader Sonia Gandhi what former Indian prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru said to parliament on November 27, 1963, that Article 370, which granted special status to IHK was “ a purely temporary provision”. iftikhar gilani

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
 
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India heading to surrender to Pakistan in IHK: Advani

NEW DELHI: Opposition Bharatiya Janata Party veteran Lal Krishna Advani expressed concern on Tuesday over what he termed India’s impending surrender to Pakistan’s proxy war in Indian-held Kashmir”, adding, “Each passing day strengthens our apprehension that the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) government is about to capitulate before Pakistan-supported secessionists.” “I would like to warn the UPA government that if they decide to bow before the secessionists’ designs in IHK, the country will not pardon them... in the name of autonomy we cannot allow the process of Kashmir’s integration to be reversed,” he said in his valedictory address at a two-day training course attended by 116 party spokespersons from 24 Indian states. “There is talk of a ‘political solution’ to the Kashmir issue. Instead of giving a fitting reply to the secessionists, the government has been demonising the security forces. There is continuing talk of diluting the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA), and withdrawal of the forces! This is nothing but a surrender before Islamabad’s strategy of breaking India’s post-1947 unity,” Advani said He added that it was exactly what the military rulers of Pakistan had been “dreaming of ever since their defeat in Bangladesh War of Liberation in 1971”, adding, “the situation in IHK was indeed alarming.” “There is no government worth to name in Jammu and Kashmir. It has completely collapsed, ceding the ground to secessionists. The mess in Kashmir is not the making of only the government in Srinagar. In New Delhi, the UPA government is totally clueless and spineless,” Advani added. “There is talk of granting ‘maximum autonomy’ to Kashmir. Decoded, it means giving it its pre-1953 status. Far from repealing Article 370, the UPA government looks all set to repeal years and decades of our collective gains in Kashmir, all because of its lack of will, vision, commitment and competence,” Advani said. He went on to remind the Indian prime minister and Congress leader Sonia Gandhi what former Indian prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru said to parliament on November 27, 1963, that Article 370, which granted special status to IHK was “ a purely temporary provision”. iftikhar gilani

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

Congratulation:cheers:

So I guess this thread must be heading for closure:undecided:
 
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I thought Kashmiries will not want for freedom/separation if India will develop more and more economically and technologically. I thought they would compromise with mighty India and their demonstration will diminish in future. But now it seems there is no correlation with India’s development. Actually, Freedom is freedom, nothing can be its complementary.

This time we are hoping for success and freedom for Kashmiries.
 
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I thought Kashmiries will not want for freedom/separation if India will develop more and more economically and technologically. I thought they would compromise with mighty India and their demonstration will diminish in future. But now it seems there is no correlation with India’s development. Actually, Freedom is freedom, nothing can be its complementary.

This time we are hoping for success and freedom for Kashmiries.

ALL THE BEST:cheers:
 
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India and Pakistan were close to a Kashmir solution: Musharraf to
NDTV Correspondent, Updated: October 09, 2010 19:30 IST


London: After the launch of his new political party, All Pakistan Muslim League (APML), this week, Pakistan's former military ruler Pervez Musharraf continues to attract global headlines.

India, has closely watched his recent statements on Kashmir, wherein he admitted to Pakistan training underground militant groups to operate in the Kashmir Valley. But today, speaking in London exclusively to NDTV, Musharraf said these groups - groups like the Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) - were not raised during his tenure, but much earlier.

While he denied the involvement of the security establishment in sending them across the Line of Control (LOC), he did concede that from Pakistan's point of view, the Lashkar was what he called a Mujahideen group, fighting for the rights of the Kashmiri people.

"From our point of view, LeT is fighting for the rights of Kashmiris and there is great public support in Pakistan for groups like the Lashkar-e-Toiba," said Musharraf.


Asked about how close India and Pakistan came during his Presidency, in signing onto Kashmir solution, he said, "We were as close as drafting a final pact for a solution. Final drafts were exchanged through the back channel and Manmohan Singh agreed with my four-point formula."

India and Pakistan were close to a Kashmir solution: Musharraf to NDTV
 
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