The future of air warfare: Bayraktar KIZILELMA

[dBSPL]

 

[That Guy]

Would love to watch how the KE maneuvers.

I wanna see how it would dog fight, I bet it could pull some insane Gs that humans aren't capable.

Now the question is, how autonomous will they make the Kizilelma? Will they write ai to allow the drone to independently make decisions during air to air contact, or will there always be a human operator in control every step of the way?

 

[dBSPL]

I wanna see how it would dog fight, I bet it could pull some insane Gs that humans aren't capable.

Now the question is, how autonomous will they make the Kizilelma? Will they write ai to allow the drone to independently make decisions during air to air contact, or will there always be a human operator in control every step of the way?

The Kizilelma programme aims to develop and produce fully autonomous fighter aircraft. In other words, the main objective is that the human factor will be the approval factor only, in the entire mission profile. Currently, the KIZILELMA prototype, which expresses the level of current technological readiness, can perform fully autonomous landing and take-off, just like other Baykar products, as well as can follow manned fighters in wing formations while commanded from other high altidude UAV systems(AKINCI) or directly with its own internal AI, and can return to base autonomously in case of any data loss. KIZILELMA and ANKA-3 actually have very long roadmaps. The lead variants aim to shorten this path.

Due to the limitations of human physiology, manned fighter jets are limited usually to +9/-3.5, but in fact current fighter jets are structurally strong enough to withstand around 50 per cent more than this. If we remove the human factor from a jet that can reach the same standards in terms of structural strength, there is the possibility of expanding the limits endurance of the air combat manoeuvring envelope to maximise up to structural limits of the aircraft. Of course, there are many factors that enable the aircraft to use these high agile features, but the biggest limiting factor, has come to the point where it can be eleminated. This is essentially one of the capability leaps expressed in the paradigm shift.

The other important issue is that AI can theoretically perform air combat manoeuvring with zero fault tolerance. Advances in deep learning have the potential to rapidly eliminate limitations in this area. The third issue is communication protocols and combat network bandwidths. This is no longer a problem. In short, the 2030s promise a real paradigm shift in combat aviation.

 

[PakAlp]

I wanna see how it would dog fight, I bet it could pull some insane Gs that humans aren't capable.

Now the question is, how autonomous will they make the Kizilelma? Will they write ai to allow the drone to independently make decisions during air to air contact, or will there always be a human operator in control every step of the way?

Certainly, what's exciting is that this is just the beginning, imagine Kilzelma and Anka 3 in a decade 2033. It would be revolutionary, they will add more AI technologies, it may even become self independent, still a long way to go. I can see Turkey targeting cutting edge technology next, lazer weapons etc.

 

[CSAW]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1659382142454071296

 

[dBSPL]

Certainly, what's exciting is that this is just the beginning, imagine Kilzelma and Anka 3 in a decade 2033. It would be revolutionary, they will add more AI technologies, it may even become self independent, still a long way to go. I can see Turkey targeting cutting edge technology next, lazer weapons etc.

ANKA-4 and KE-II will be shared with the public in the next few years. That's when the real surprise will hit.

Even if the Turkish aerospace industry has been subject to constant delays and internal conspiracies due to coups, assassinations, ambargoes, atlanticist bureaucratic barriers, political turmoils etc: After 20 years of formation and 20 years of infrastructure preparation and building manpower, it has now reached the point of spreading its wings.

The infrastructure investments of aviation clusters alone have exceeded 7 billion dollars in the last few years. And the number of active personnel of TAI alone is approaching 15K. There is a trained workforce of 100K across the sector and increasing each year. Twenty years ago, the number of whole defense and aerospace companies was around 80; today, thousands of companies are engaged in export-oriented activities in defense and aerospace. There are around 70-80 aerospace companies alone that have AS9100 certification and are suppliers to global manufacturers. The annual growth momentum in whole sector turnover is around 30-35%. The 2030s will be the years when we achieve the ideal of full independence in aviation and begin to take the lead in terms of doctrinal designs in some specific combat concepts. What you see here now is not even the tip of the iceberg. Much that is still in the shadows will come to light in the coming years. Awakening Turks security paranoia is like trying to wake a sleeping beast.

 

[altafahmed]

Does Turkiye design its own microprocessor or it relies on other? I mean design, not manufacturing.

 

[dBSPL]

Does Turkiye design its own microprocessor or it relies on other? I mean design, not manufacturing.

Yes, there is a certain built-in design capability, especially within TÜBİTAK BİLGEM/YİTAL, but the production is very limited. For example, I can give the example of the national processor ÇAKIL, which was designed as 65nm, but its production took place in Malaysia. In terms of production and machine park, the sector report as of 2021 was as follows:.

Especially in the defense sector, in addition to domestic design, production for ammunitions/sensors are also carried out domestically. Also, a new line is currently being established within Tübitak Bilgem in partnership with Qatar. The reason for the Qatari partnership is the access problem in creating the necessary machine park. So this problem will be overcome indirectly. This facility will start at 65 nanometers in the first stage within 12 months. Nevertheless, current and near term production volumes are targeted at critical sectors such as the defense industry. At the moment, 65nm meet an important part of sectoral need and according to the statement of the minister of technology, it is necessary to wait in a serious queue for the production of chips of this size, so as far as I can understand, this was chosen as the starting point.

Apart from this, the state has a series of incentive models, and on the design side, companies are provided with incentives in excess of one billion TL. We also know that negotiations are ongoing with several electronics manufacturers like ARÇELİK etc. investment for high-volume domestic production.

 

[Paul2]

Yes, there is a certain built-in design capability, especially within TÜBİTAK BİLGEM/YİTAL, but the production is very limited. For example, I can give the example of the national processor ÇAKIL, which was designed as 65nm, but its production took place in Malaysia. In terms of production and machine park, the sector report as of 2021 was as follows:.

Especially in the defense sector, in addition to domestic design, production for ammunitions/sensors are also carried out domestically. Also, a new line is currently being established within Tübitak Bilgem in partnership with Qatar. The reason for the Qatari partnership is the access problem in creating the necessary machine park. So this problem will be overcome indirectly. This facility will start at 65 nanometers in the first stage within 12 months. Nevertheless, current and near term production volumes are targeted at critical sectors such as the defense industry. At the moment, 65nm meet an important part of sectoral need and according to the statement of the minister of technology, it is necessary to wait in a serious queue for the production of chips of this size, so as far as I can understand, this was chosen as the starting point.

Apart from this, the state has a series of incentive models, and on the design side, companies are provided with incentives in excess of one billion TL. We also know that negotiations are ongoing with several electronics manufacturers like ARÇELİK etc. investment for high-volume domestic production.

Abu Dhabi is certainly thinking hard about how it missed an opportunity to build Global Foundries fab in Abu Dhabi 10 years ago. 22/24nm would've still been few generations ahead for CMOS than what is used for US defence electronics, and perfectly suitable for commodity chips.

Too profit minded outlook strongly overlooked strategic considerations, and long term scenarios (global capacity crunch in legacy nodes.)

 

[dBSPL]

Abu Dhabi is certainly thinking hard about how it missed an opportunity to build Global Foundries fab in Abu Dhabi 10 years ago. 22/24nm would've still been few generations ahead for CMOS than what is used for US defence electronics, and perfectly suitable for commodity chips.

Too profit minded outlook strongly overlooked strategic considerations, and long term scenarios (global capacity crunch in legacy nodes.)

We need to think strategically, especially in defense and aerospace. It seems that the Gulf region has the same problem of not being able to use the window of opportunity in terms of domestic production as we how missed. Now, as you know, this production developments are purely political area, with an almost strict control regime. So far, TR has only focused on design capabilities, mostly over YİTAL, YONGATEK etc.. And there was really very limited production, which was only covered weapon systems, related sensors and electronic suites. Most recently, the microprocessor ÇAKIL for defense systems was printed in Malaysia. It is now planned to be produce in mass domestically in a slightly higher volume.

But also, there is no need to try to be competitive in the domestic industrial demand to the extent that there are only a few plants in the world that can produce and the machinery park is almost entirely politically controlled by the US. The 90-22nm range can cover more than 95% of the need in the strategic sectors I mentioned, for this period. More precisely, we don't need to start with the 7/5 nm process target in the first place, because we see how even China has been struggling in recent years. One of the misconceptions is that many people think that manufacturing is just about microprocessors that we use in phones and computers. But there are really long waiting times for the delivery of orders in the respective factories, for example for 65nm chipsets. Automotive and most of consumer electronics need are still in the 250-125nm range.

I hope that private enterprise-oriented interest will continue to grow both in the Gulf region and in my country. Because we have to. Governments can pave the way with university collaborations and various incentive packages. Something is about to happen in TR, the government tends to encourage a few companies in this regard, I hope I will have the opportunity to give much more good news in the coming years, may be in Q4 2023 or next year.

 

[altafahmed]

The reason for the Qatari partnership is the access problem in creating the necessary machine park. So this problem will be overcome indirectly. This facility will start at 65 nanometers in the first stage within 12 months.

From where would TR source the machinery, and what are the problems in accessing it?

I hope I will have the opportunity to give much more good news in the coming years, may be in Q4 2023 or next year.

Will be waiting for it.

 

[dBSPL]

From where would TR source the machinery, and what are the problems in accessing it?


Will be waiting for it.

The machines purchased by Qatar University brought to TR. In terms of production, there are 2-3 manufacturers in the world, which are directly connected to two US companies in terms of technology, so things are very difficult without the political approval of the US. China's difficulties and being forced to produce its own technology directly are also related to this.

 

[CSAW]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1660303634876231684

KIZILELMA and SoloTurk in Formation Flying

The Turks are readying a robotic army. It's like the canons and matchlocks employed during the Turkic Golden age when three Empires of Gun Powder were built: Ottoman, Safavid, and Mughal.....

defence.pk

 

[CSAW]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1661664847736471552

 

[Muhammad Saftain Anjum]

Chances are there PAF will get these birds
But with so many technologies at play here it will easily get beyond $40M per unit and with twin engine configuration beyond 50M

So only in limited numbers.
Since its actually new concept we should wait until it gets matured (may be PAF will buy Kizilelma-B) Even then it will need continuous updates especially in software domain.

@arslank03
@LeGenD i wonder why US/China/Israel are not going for standalone unmanned concepts?
All their Sixth Generation fighters are still manned having Loyal Wingmans with Limited autonomous capability.

May be b/c they don't want to risk a Jamming/EW surprise from their technologically powerful enemy.

E.g., an evolution of the Ra'ad ALCM.

Speed Racer concept?

Yep.AWC should really look at this.This thing costs only 2M US dollars and can be game changer for suppression of enemy defence systems