The funniest Darism till date - To beg IMF on my own terms

[Leader]

Come on man, You representing PTI. Show some class, please. I don't think our leader Imran Khan will be too pleased to see this low class attack. If Ishaq Dar was truly an orphan and he reached this status then he is worthy of respect that he beat all odds.

he was hand picked by Nawaz, and later he built himself with haramkhori with patronage of sharif family, lets call that low class and those who support such class as low class rather than hating the informer?

 

[SBD-3]

try me! plz
open up a seprte thread i will let you know the history of dam grand mansions in london,& shoe shinners of genrl jilani from lahore?

Well why didn't musharraf take action against the dam grand mansions of london if they were from "looted money"? The "pakeezgi" of his merrymen is still an example.
The jadoo of financial wizard of musharraf was that he, instead of going to IMF, borrowed from foreign commercial banks (e.g. Citibank etc) albeit expensively and told the nation that they have got rid of IMF. Moreover, the raised money through issuing bonds in international markets (which trade in junk status these days) which was always risky for a country with negative external profile so the problems on the external front were amplified covertly and the nation was kept in dark.
On domestic front, the wizard tried to implement demand model by keeping interest rates near zero and artificially inflating the incomes of people through encouraging personal,car,home lending. However, the real incomes of people didn't grow and the bubble went burst as the rising inflation prompted SBP to raise interest rates. The deliquancies increased, banks booked losses, producers postponed their expansion plans and we ended and Pakistan was back to recession just like "Jithay de se khoti, othay e aan khaloti."

& how to increase GDP growth?
its really sad that great economist like you not been selected as our finance minster , instead of Mr Dar?

By increasing development expenditure just like Dar did. There is no economic progress without investments and peace. And thanks to Musharraf Bhai for taking away both!

In other words, we are still screwed for the next 3-4 years until our growth picks up.

Even more, because debt is not the only problem, peace and security is also necessary for good economic growth. War-ridden countries don't grow at 6-7%.

 

[Pakistanisage]

he was hand picked by Nawaz, and later he built himself with haramkhori with patronage of sharif family, lets call that low class and those who support such class as low class rather than hating the informer?

So criticize his Haramkhori and I would support you but lets not ridicule his status as an Orphan as you mentioned in your post. That is below the belt attack. In Pakistan , we should not ridicule someone's status as an orphan. That's all I am saying.

 

[batmannow]

Sorry. But I couldn't help noticing this.

remember the time & stage he was refreing towards?

Well why didn't musharraf take action against the dam grand mansions of london if they were from "looted money"? The "pakeezgi" of his merrymen is still an example.
The jadoo of financial wizard of musharraf was that he, instead of going to IMF, borrowed from foreign commercial banks (e.g. Citibank etc) albeit expensively and told the nation that they have got rid of IMF. Moreover, the raised money through issuing bonds in international markets (which trade in junk status these days) which was always risky for a country with negative external profile so the problems on the external front were amplified covertly and the nation was kept in dark.
On domestic front, the wizard tried to implement demand model by keeping interest rates near zero and artificially inflating the incomes of people through encouraging personal,car,home lending. However, the real incomes of people didn't grow and the bubble went burst as the rising inflation prompted SBP to raise interest rates. The deliquancies increased, banks booked losses, producers postponed their expansion plans and we ended and Pakistan was back to recession just like "Jithay de se khoti, othay e aan khaloti."


By increasing development expenditure just like Dar did. There is no economic progress without investments and peace. And thanks to Musharraf Bhai for taking away both!


Even more, because debt is not the only problem, peace and security is also necessary for good economic growth. War-ridden countries don't grow at 6-7%.

increasing development expenditure just like NS did ?
by buying more grand manssions for rent in london?
from the gifted money given to him by great queen herself, due to his great tabla nawazi in the royal palace, at a very young age of sweet 16s?lol
plz post the bed time storries of commando on FB if can find any, but i can send you a link from a western female journalist whom , alleged mr sharif of?.. lets forget that? he is zardari,s PM for now shall i say?
nation was kept in the dark thats why dollor was constant on 62 rupees?
what was the rate of a call by a cell phone before musharaf ? & durring his times?
how much was the investment just in the telecommunication sector before musharaf in times of PMLn back in 99s?
what was after? durring musharaf times?
sorry to cut that over educated crap out?
do it whatever your PMln can bt just make dollor at 70 rupees for now? can they?

 

[SBD-3]

remember the time & stage he was refreing towards?



devlopment of pakistan by buying more grand manssions for rent in london?

Dude, if have anything more than one-liners, do come forth. I hate both the lack and excess of verbatim without any substance.

 

[Guvera]

Besides all this budget and after budget funny one liners by Ishaq Dar i feel really sorry for the people who thought Miyan sahab wud change their fate and bring the country back to its glory days and in the process they ignored IK who kept on telling them "Jo 2 dafa kuch nahi ker sakay 3rd time kia karengay " their misery for next five years has just begun.

 

[Mav3rick]

Well I am not a supporter of NZ or zardari or a hater of Pakistan but what army gave us in their rule which is more than civil rule in pak . Just to discuss this is what army gave us despite some good things as well but look at the consequences of these major decisions all taken by generals . I would just highlight three incidents indicating lack of any long term vision and inner weakness when holding a post they were not meant to have in the first place . Remember a military ruler is the weakest during his initial years as head of state
1) 1960 indus water treaty for just a million dollar ayub khan gave ravi , sutlej and bayas to india officially instead of fighting for not allowing india to alter the course of water of any river .

2) Zia's decision to sit in US lap in 79 , what russia wanted was access to warm water gwadar port and a pro russian afghanistan . We could have let them develop gwadar for both of us and must have earned billions by now owing to transit revenues and also would have sorted out differences over afghanistan settling for a due influence in kabul something we are still longing for.

3) Musharraf peeing in his Pants when Bush called him asking are you with us or against us ?
Do you think US was in any position to bomb pakistan when all the 9/11 hijackers were arabs and OBL was in afghanistan ?
Pak had nothing to do with it whatsoever and being an independent nation we had all the rights to decide against siding that US war .

Can you see the long lasting effects of these decisions by military dictators on Pakistan ? A soldier is trained to fight at border not to run a state and if he does so he will make such decisions only . I am not getting into the royal treatment Pak army expected and was getting till recently as it will be off the thread .

My friend, you have identified 3 issues and the path chosen by Military but you have failed to identify the path/solution that would have been adopted by any democratically elected Government......especially the consequences. I am very interested in your analysed, correct, courses of action that democratically elected governments would have chosen and particularly in the outcome of the later 2 points.

He is so funny ... no wonder people call him mr bean..

I thought Ch. Nisar was Mr. Bean??

 

[batmannow]

Dude, if have anything more than one-liners, do come forth. I hate both the lack and excess of verbatim without any substance.

dude!
& i hate to write 1000 pages of bogus & false sucsess dream stories of dam damocrazy which has brought only pain to the common men in pakistan?
it was in compitent, still is?
it was without common sense, still it is?
its was croupt & still it is?

 

[batmannow]

Besides all this budget and after budget funny one liners by Ishaq Dar i feel really sorry for the people who thought Miyan sahab wud change their fate and bring the country back to its glory days and in the process they ignored IK who kept on telling them "Jo 2 dafa kuch nahi ker sakay 3rd time kia karengay " their misery for next five years has just begun.

sorry uncle!
but right now peoples of pakistan are saying "joo pehli dafa hi nahi kar saka woo agey kiya karegaa"

 

[Leader]

So criticize his Haramkhori and I would support you but lets not ridicule his status as an Orphan as you mentioned in your post. That is below the belt attack. In Pakistan , we should not ridicule someone's status as an orphan. That's all I am saying.

fair enough, my intention was not to ridicule but that he should remember those days of his own suffering as orphan.. anyway point taken !

 

[Mav3rick]

One more thing, our debt has, to a fair extent, already become unsustainable. Just a quick maths will show you how desperately we need growth.
Pakistan's current stock of debt is~ PKR 13000 Billion
Pakistan's current Real GDP stock is~ PKR 20000 Billion
Pakistan's current Debt to GDP is (13000/20000)= ~65%
Now the current budget deficit is estimated at 1600 Billion (out of with 1120 Billion is just the interest on outstanding debt)
Pakistan's debt stock next year is expected too be 14600 (13000+1600)
Now for maintaining our debt to GDP we need a real GDP growth of ~12% (Real GDP stock ~22462 Billion PKR)
Even if the Pakistan economy grows at 4.7% (budgetary estimates) our Real GDP stock is expected to end at 20920 Billion PKR
which roughly translates into 69% of Debt to GDP ratio. So in Just one year our debt to GDP will jump by 4%. This is the same situation which is prevailing in Europe (PIGS countries). Technically we call it debt-recession spiral where swelling debt drags economy into recession and with every cycle, the debt becomes more unsustainable while GDP stagnates.

Can you explain the part in bold? I thought our total foreign debt (USD 60 Billion => PKR 6000 Billion) + domestic debt (500 Billion) made up our total debt which stands roughly at PKR 6500 Billion.

What happened to the model followed by Musharraf in 2007 on wards is also a chapter in economic history of Pakistan. If you want me to discuss it in details I would be glad to do so.

Oh yes, I would love to hear that. I am no expert in economics, however I can relate to the facts and figures and also how lower USD=>PKR conversion directly effects our massive imports, etc.

It is because we need FX inflows to counter IMF. And most of the expatriates are only interested in Pakistani politics. The most of the phone calls in talk shows are from expatriates.They yell, they cry but when it comes to helping Pakistan, they have their own preferences!

Actually, you are wrong again.

Expats are some of the smartest Pakistanis. They are wary of PPP and PML and rightfully too. They might have offered assistance had there been a change of faces.

Almost everybody will say this, but this is what happens in reality:

1. Save the economy by taking out a loan
2. Oops can't revive the economy because now we have to pay that previous loan, so take another loan
3. Oops we got to take another loan to pay the previous one...

When I had just started working and got credit cards, I accumulated some debt, just by keeping my lifestyle going as usual, money management wasn't my top priority. It wasn't until I decided to make a few sacrifices for a few months till I zeroed it out.

Any strategy that does not ensure net loan amount taken to decrease every year is simply not strategy.

Bottom line is this:

Itne hum kabil log hain nahi ke hum loan lein, usko invest karein and itni ROI ho ke yeh loan and pichla loan pay off hojaye.

A very important point in that post of yours is how you tightened your belt because you had taken loans to support your lifestyle. However, every time the Government takes a new loan, they tighten 'our' belts, the belts of average Pakistanis instead of reigning on massive corruption, heights of incompetence and above all the indifference of most of the political leaders.

By the way, did you notice that I used 'political leaders' to define the 3 traits above?

 

[Mav3rick]

Well mate what was musharrafs wisdom or ability had to do with all that ? It all happened due to dollars inflow owing to Pakistans complete surrender to US demands of supports in afghanistan . Had there been a civilian govt the same would have happened even with much better results ..But did you fail to notice the billions we lost in the last decade by stepping in that US war without realizing the consequences or taking proper measures to offset likely repercussions .

It is so painful to see my fellow countrymen so disillusioned that most of the times it is pointless to even read their posts. I mean, what were our options, really????

if not was his wisdom to build the required trust among dollor giving nation, he wouldnt had got a single penny?
if not tell NS or anyone of these damo-crats to push back pakistan at least at the same level, from which musharaf was gone?
no they never will, cause it all takes pakistan frist?
not london manssions & hudaybia milles frist?
its not about opportunities, its all about not to be croupt & fair with pakistan!

You forgot the many other mills and factories, steel mills, sugar foundries, qarz utaro mulk sanwaro, yellow cabs, duty free import of luxurious cars for just a month and so on....

 

[SBD-3]

Can you explain the part in bold? I thought our total foreign debt (USD 60 Billion => PKR 6000 Billion) + domestic debt (500 Billion) made up our total debt which stands roughly at PKR 6500 Billion.

500 Billion is just the circular debt that we owe to petro companies. Actual public debt is hovering around ~7000 Billion

Actually, you are wrong again. Expats are some of the smartest Pakistanis. They are wary of PPP and PML and rightfully too. They might have offered assistance had there been a change of faces.

Had they been wary of N and PPP, whats stopping them in KPK? An interesting term has been coined for Expats,"Good for remittances only."

 

[Mav3rick]

Well I dont wanna derail this thread but all these suicide attacks and chaos begins in his tenure around 2005 where was his wisdom then ? why he couldnt contain things ?

I am not saying NZ is better but i feel democracy can evolve over time allowing people to purge likes of zardari and NZ over time. And I did gave a few examples of very poor decisions taken by generals over decades while on the other ZAB was a civilian who kick started nuke program and was courageous enough to tore apart kissingers letter in general assembly of UN .

ZAB is also the pioneer of 1971 defeat, introduction and rise of corruption in Pakistan, introduction of quota system which squashed merit and ultimately competence, unnecessary and illegal powers to unions that broke the backbone of business and investment etc.

ZAB had some very very positive things and at the same time he committed some very serious crimes and intentionally weakened the system.

 

[SBD-3]

dude!
& i hate to write 1000 pages of bogus & false sucsess dream stories of dam damocrazy which has brought only pain to the common men in pakistan?
it was in compitent, still is?
it was without common sense, still it is?
its was croupt & still it is?

I made some arguments, If you have anything against them, please bring forth. Argument for argument, logic for logic and evidence for evidence is the essence of discussion.