The Flying Coffin Syndrome

[Windjammer]

.you are simply making your own facts .....mig-21 was awarded the winner by AMERICAN INSTITUTE OF DEFENSE ANALYSIS as the winner between it and f-104...

I will not use your kind of lingo, but sometimes a knock on the head is detrimental. No doubt the MIG-21 came on tops when dogfighting the F-104 on two occasions, once when F-104 guns jammed and the pilot Wing Commander Middlecoat bailed out over the sea and could not be rescued. However you need to up date on your history since the PAF started operations with Seven F-104s and still showed Four at the end of hostilities, of the three two fell to MIGs and one to ground fire,
The Indian propaganda ingenuity backfired when it was confirmed that the Ten Jordanian Starfighters arrived at the end of hostilities and not before as it was claimed.

 

[Indiarox]

Ten Jordanian Starfighters arrived at the end of hostilities and not before as it was claimed.

source please lets keep it neutral

 

[Windjammer]

source please lets keep it neutral

Albeit there is a whole article on the issue and i will try and dig it up but here is another link proving the claim is controversial if nothing else.

War between Pakistan and India broke out again on December 7, 1971. By this time the Indian MiG force was formidable, with eight squadrons operationally ready. During the 1971 war with India, No 9 Squadron of the Royal Jordanian Air Force with about 10 F-104As was transferred to Pakistan to help out. It is not certain if the Jordanian F-104As were actually used in combat and if they were, whether they were flown by Pakistani or Jordanian pilots.

F-104A/B in Combat

 

[Indiarox]

Albeit there is a whole article on the issue and i will try and dig it up but here is another link proving the claim is controversial if nothing else.

F-104A/B in Combat

I would take what both counties say with a pinch of salt
don't you agree?

 

[Windjammer]

well dont forget the cope India when su-30 mkis checked your claim when one of the USAF pilot went on you tube saying that they will need f-22 to beat su-30mki.
NOW DON'T SAY YOU NEVER WATCHED IT....I SAW THAT video in one of PDF 's thread...well i m not comparing f-22 with su-30 as f-22/35 is a better plane in all aspects ...even euro fighter is a better plane than mki....but its no doubt that su-30mki is better than f-16.

We also saw the video of a USAF Officer ridiculing the performance of the IAF during such an exercise and i have also posted the comments of an SU-30 Leader, Wing Commander W********* else where so let's not go down that way.
The MIG-21 was a top notch fighter of it's day but in the IAF, it wasn't used to it's full potential and ended up getting shot down by much older and less capable aircraft, two were shot down by the obsolete F-86s and one ironically by the older F-6 (MIG-19).

 

[third eye]

The Fairchild Packet & Dakota too earned this sobriquet.

 

[Areesh]

brother he showed a gnat surrendering in his avatar and then said its habbit of indians............

Well you lack honour unlike your name. Anyways it is my profile and it is my avatar so you should have no issues to what is my avatar. Second you started your 1971 rant whole we were talking about mig21. Where are you dear. You are lost I guess. Stay to the topic don't troll.

 

[honour]

Well you lack honour unlike your name. Anyways it is my profile and it is my avatar so you should have no issues to what is my avatar. Second you started your 1971 rant whole we were talking about mig21. Where are you dear. You are lost I guess. Stay to the topic don't troll.

Areesh try being genuine ...check the above post...who is saying what and when??????????
let me tell u ...u don't have any facts....at least Mr.windj provides some link....you cant even do that...really try something else....

 

[honour]

We also saw the video of a USAF Officer ridiculing the performance of the IAF during such an exercise and i have also posted the comments of an SU-30 Leader, Wing Commander W********* else where so let's not go down that way.
The MIG-21 was a top notch fighter of it's day but in the IAF, it wasn't used to it's full potential and ended up getting shot down by much older and less capable aircraft, two were shot down by the obsolete F-86s and one ironically by the older F-6 (MIG-19).

An earlier variant of the Su-30MKI, the MK, took part in war games with the United States Air Force (USAF) during Cope-India 04. The results have been widely publicized, with the Indians winning "90% of the mock combat missions" against the American force. When questioned on the capabilities of IAF pilots, Col Greg Newbech, USAF Team Leader made the following remarks: - "What we’ve seen in the last two weeks is, the IAF can stand toe-to-toe with best AF in the world. I pity the pilot who has to face the IAF and chances the day to underestimate him; because he won’t be going home. Indian hospitality from everyone has been truly overwhelming. Our counterparts were also appreciable of our planes. The greatest compliment we heard from an IAF pilot, 'You American pilots are just like us, simply down to earth people.' We depart India with great respect for the Indian Air Force. Your pilots, maint and support crew are exceptional professionals."
IAF Su-30MKI jet touches down at Mountain Home Air Force Base during Red Flag exercise.

In July 2008, the IAF sent 6 Su-30MKIs and 2 aerial-refueling tankers, the Il-78MKI, to participate in the Red Flag exercise.. The IAF again did not allow their pilots to use the radar of the MKIs during the exercise so as to protect the highly-classified N011M Bars. In October 2008, a video surfaced on the internet which featured a USAF colonel, Corkey Fornoff, criticizing Su-30MKI's high friendly kill rate and serviceability issues during the Red Flag exercise. Several of his claims were later rebutted by the Indian side, the USAF disassociated itself from his comments and it was stated that he did not even participate in the exercise.According to the spokeperson colonel was not even present at the exercise venue.

i have also got genuine link.......from Wikipedia...now don't say you didn't even saw this man being dissociated by his own USAF...tell me when your you tube is active...i will help u with the link

 

[razgriz19]

im used to Indian comics so i pick up the details easily
im going to start a thread on News paper comics (Indian)like the one above
r you interested in adding comic stuff from Pakistani papers

if i find some then sure why not!

 

[Areesh]

Areesh try being genuine ...check the above post...who is saying what and when??????????
let me tell u ...u don't have any facts....at least Mr.windj provides some link....you cant even do that...really try something else....

Honor as I said you lack honour. I can provide many links but it is of no use because it would be off topic. In fact many of myths such as Sabre Slayer have been discussed many times on this forum and I can easily refute this myth by using the Search function of this forum. But it won't be of much use because first it will be off topic and second WJ has done this job already.

As far as Mig-21 so called achievement against F-104 is concerned you can check your favorite BR to know the reality of this achievement. It had only F104 was shot down only three times in both wars and that included one of Wing Commander Mervin Middlecoat's unfortunate kill as WJ mentioned.

 

[honour]

Honor as I said you lack honour. I can provide many links but it is of no use because it would be off topic. In fact many of myths such as Sabre Slayer have been discussed many times on this forum and I can easily refute this myth by using the Search function of this forum. But it won't be of much use because first it will be off topic and second WJ has done this job already.

As far as Mig-21 so called achievement against F-104 is concerned you can check your favorite BR to know the reality of this achievement. It had only F104 was shot down only three times in both wars and that included one of Wing Commander Mervin Middlecoat's unfortunate kill as WJ mentioned.

yaaar u r damn funny....let me say all of our planes got down because our guns jammed....give me a link to counter that fully....

give me a link<non-Pak/Jordan> that says his gun jammed...

give me a link that says with certainty<non-Pak/China/Jordan/arab> link that says no Jordanian plane was used..

well i know what honour i have got and can claim easily that its more than you.....i accept there are more honored/respected/capable persons than me are here <a lot of them are of Pakistan...example:windj,frank>


maybe i use some tough words against them some time but really i respect their knowledge in this field a lot.....

 

[Areesh]

yaaar u r damn funny....let me say all of our planes got down because our guns jammed....give me a link to counter that fully....

give me a link<non-Pak/Jordan> that says his gun jammed...

give me a link that says with certainty<non-Pak/China/Jordan/arab> link that says no Jordanian plane was used..

well i know what honour i have got and can claim easily that its more than you.....i accept there are more honored/respected/capable persons than me are here <a lot of them are of Pakistan...example:windj,frank>


maybe i use some tough words against them some time but really i respect their knowledge in this field a lot.....

Lolllzzz. Dear the super dooper Mig21 had only two kills against F 104 in both the wars. We could have easily claimed that both were shot down because of technical problems but we didn't. The reason is that only one kill was the result of an error. If you don't want to accept and want to still under the illusions of Saber Slayers or F104 killers you can live with it. We have no problem with.

WJ has also said the same thing about this kill of Mig21 against F104.

IAF past isn't very illustrious best of luck for it's future.

 

[honour]

Lolllzzz. Dear the super dooper Mig21 had only two kills against F 104 in both the wars. We could have easily claimed that both were shot down because of technical problems but we didn't. The reason is that only one kill was the result of an error. If you don't want to accept and want to still under the illusions of Saber Slayers or F104 killers you can live with it. We have no problem with.

WJ has also said the same thing about this kill of Mig21 against F104.

IAF past isn't very illustrious best of luck for it's future.

I Agree Brother......lets leave IAF out...

PAF....what a worthy organisation......

refused to defend Karachi...........
has a tag of loss in 1971

but what a illustrious/fantastic/marvelous/splendid/awesome/rocking/glorious/commendable/ past......salute to it.....

PA......what an organization.............

lost in 1965 even with much better Armour......
lost in 1971 even when IA was fighting on two fronts
first to surrender<71k soldiers in 1971> war followed by PAF and PN
lost in 1999 even when sitting on fully fortified hilltops
Refused to accept the bodies of soldiers in 1999 even after UN request.....still what a illustrious /fantastic/marvelous/splendid/awesome/rocking/glorious/commendable/ past......salute to it.....


PN.....what a dependable organization.....

the whole navy cant defend a single city
submarine loss in enemy teritory by unknown reasons
cant provide support to PAF and PA in 1971
cant destroy an unprotected city of dwarka in 1965......

still what a illustrious /fantastic/marvelous/splendid/awesome/rocking/glorious/commendable/ past......hats off to it

last but not the least....hats off to you.......

 

[Windjammer]

I Agree Brother......lets leave IAF out...

PAF....what a worthy organisation......

refused to defend Karachi...........
has a tag of loss in 1971

but what a illustrious/fantastic/marvelous/splendid/awesome/rocking/glorious/commendable/ past......salute to it.....

PA......what an organization.............

lost in 1965 even with much better Armour......
lost in 1971 even when IA was fighting on two fronts
first to surrender<71k soldiers in 1971> war followed by PAF and PN
lost in 1999 even when sitting on fully fortified hilltops
Refused to accept the bodies of soldiers in 1999 even after UN request.....still what a illustrious /fantastic/marvelous/splendid/awesome/rocking/glorious/commendable/ past......salute to it.....


PN.....what a dependable organization.....

the whole navy cant defend a single city
submarine loss in enemy teritory by unknown reasons
cant provide support to PAF and PA in 1971
cant destroy an unprotected city of dwarka in 1965......

still what a illustrious /fantastic/marvelous/splendid/awesome/rocking/glorious/commendable/ past......hats off to it

last but not the least....hats off to you.......

You are way out of line here buddy, or should i say victim of your own disastrous propaganda. Albeit the thread is about the troubled history of MIG-21 in the IAF service but like a headless Chicken you are running around digressing from your hopeless case of Sabre slayer to the supposedly Indian saving grace the SU-30 and now you stoop even further by showing your desperation in true colours.
Firstly let me enlighten you with some realities, in 2002, your mighty army shifted a million men to the border along with all brick and motor, they remained there for almost one year and ended up in a humiliating withdraw after loosing several hundred men without a shot being fired. Your airforce is also equipped with MIG-21, 23, 27 and Mirage-2000, when was the last time you witnessed these single engined fighters participating in your Republic day flypast, not for the last few years at least since it only relies on the safety of twin engine Jaguars, Mig-29s and SU-30s. More over you have been gloating about various exercises, well ever heard the term, boards don't hit back, that's what happens in an exercise and when the shooting starts, this is how the fear of PAF kills your Sabre slayer.

As for your hot shot elite, read and weep.

And this is how you breathe.



Since this thread is related to Airforce i will not include the soul destroying stories of your Army and Navy, but enough of your self praising nonsense, try to comprehend the reality and trials of life.