The fiction of the Ideology of Pakistan: YLH

[SQ8]

Facts and truths do not matter(.) What matters is tolerance even if they are to lies and deception(.) That is what Pakistan ought to do in order for her to be successful(.) People like you are holding Pakistan from being successful(.)

Wait.. what?
So if TLP turns out to be causing all this mayhem at the behest of an external party; you believe we should tolerate it?

 

[CHACHA"G"]

The User uses this ! Sign to Post sarcastically apparently.

ohhhhhhh what ever I am out of this thread ,,,, I countered that M.sermad propaganda and defended my country , added my one cent on @Horus post and I almost had argument with TMA (without any intension) ….. Look like I am too old for this sarcastically game .

 

[El Sidd]

Look like I am too old for this sarcastically game .

Your name also does not suggest otherwise

 

[CHACHA"G"]

Your name also does not suggest otherwise

lol I am not that old , but I am not the "boy from internet or 3G" era ….. I guess that make me old ...

 

[El Sidd]

lol I am not that old , but I am not the "boy from internet or 3G" era ….. I guess that make me old ...

See Evolution works

 

[TMA]

ohhhhhhh what ever I am out of this thread ,,,, I countered that M.sermad propaganda and defended my country , added my one cent on @Horus post and I almost had argument with TMA (without any intension) ….. Look like I am too old for this sarcastically game .

You and I both know that there is no State persecution of Ahmadis and we both know there are vested interests in portraying the constitutional status of them as "persecution". Indeed most Pakistans know there is no State persecution against them...maybe some of the latter Executive orders were harsh but they were in response to the incendiary behaviour of the Ahmaddiya leadership....perhaps their leadership could go to the Courts and get the latter Executive orders voided...? But that is not enough that is the issue.....

...these vested interests don't care about facts and the takfeer of Mirza Ghulaam and co upon the rest of the Muslims.....

 

[SQ8]

NOT only prophet-hood but also the second coming of Christ/Masih is being ascribed to mirza sahib by the current leader of Ahmadi Muslims
only the half-read morons and/or india loving/arab hating iranis and their Pakistani followers

Claiming to be Mahdi is NO sin, as many have done so; but claming to be anything else is wrong.

The problem is that so many contradictory statements exist regarding what Mirza Qadiyani said or did not say that one cannot ascertain truth from fiction.

The followers of certain sufis and scholars attribute a lot of additional titles and ideals but a deeper study of those personalities reveals that the subject in question never made those claims in any cross referenced history . However, whereas Mirza Qadiyani is a recent phenomenon and a lot more documented yet such contradictions arise(from both followers and opposition) that both echo and disagree that one cannot ascertain the facts other than what their official reading states. But then it also is so contradictory over the years that only the parts claiming prophethood seem to be coherent.
But then certain sects(a small section)claim companions of the prophet as god’s son at times and then others state different. There are sects that claim the the prophet just happenstanced upon selection as the prophet and any good man could have been selected instead of him.... and so on and so forth.

This is expected in religion and you have to see the nonsense in Christianity and the horrors they did to each other a few hundred years ago when they were “undeveloped” then.

But coming back to Qadiyanis, the reason the sect draws ire is it’s propogation and ties with the British State and its relatively high degree of influence among key players. Not much different on how Hizb-ut.Tahrir likes to operate by trying to influence key personalities within a state.

Again, there really isn’t a “solution” or answer to this question of suspected loyalty versus human rights and state prerogatives.
Its just the need to pick a side, each with pros and cons. Then just say “Ya Allah madad” and hope one is on the right path.. not of history since as a Muslim that is irrelevant but in front of Allah. Where it is preached to be kind to the fellow man there is also preaching to ignore those who distort his word and to avoid sympathy with unbelievers. Just how one interprets all of these commandments is upto their life experiences and then we will ONLY know when it’s all done who was right.

I tend to use a crass joke on people who keep passing religious judgement. Which is that what if “we all died and found Ra, Zeus and Horus(not ours @Horus ) up there.. we will all feel like total idiots then wont we?”

The point of which is that I have a certain belief which I think is true and only god can judge me on it per my belief and human beings cannot.
What is judgment worthy is this world are my actions against other human beings. The same applies in my view to Qadiyanis or Hindus or Pastafarians..
Am I perfect in this implementation? Hardly..
But in this case my issue with YLH and the Qadiyani belief is out of my views as a Pakistani and not as a muslim.
Whether Im right or wrong in certainty??

Wallah o Alam

 

[M. Sarmad]

You're wrong about the Takfeer between Sects.

There's no authentic fatwa. Just hillaboo from extremist elements which bears no Islamic value.

I know what i am talking about ... I can post Fatwas from the very founders of various Sub Continent sects declaring each other kafirs, dogs of hell and whatnot. But keeping in view the sectarian mud-slinging that will follow I choose not to (can send you PM if you want).


However, the observation made by the Honorable Chief Justice of Pakistan, after questioning Mullahs belonging to all sects regarding definition of Islam, is more than enough to prove my point.

Keeping in view the several definitions given by the ulama, need we make any comment except that no two learned divines are agreed on this fundamental? If we attempt our own definition, as each learned divine has done, and that definition differs from that given by all others, we unanimously go out of the fold of Islam. And if we adopt the definition given by any one of the ulama, we remain Muslims according to the view of that alim, but kafirs according to the definition of everyone else.

https://archive.org/details/The1954...tOnTheAntiAhmadiRiotsOfPunjabIn1953/page/n225

Its actually that Ahmadi who's persecuting you.

Sahi hai bhai

You and I both know that there is no State persecution of Ahmadis ...

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt

 

[El Sidd]

I know what i am talking about ... I can post Fatwas from the very founders of various Sub Continent sects declaring each other kafirs, dogs of hell and whatnot. But keeping in view the sectarian mud-slinging that will follow I choose not to (can send you PM if you want).


However, the observation made by the Honorable Chief Justice of Pakistan, after questioning Mullahs belonging to all sects regarding definition of Islam, is more than enough to prove my point.

Keeping in view the several definitions given by the ulama, need we make any comment except that no two learned divines are agreed on this fundamental? If we attempt our own definition, as each learned divine has done, and that definition differs from that given by all others, we unanimously go out of the fold of Islam. And if we adopt the definition given by any one of the ulama, we remain Muslims according to the view of that alim, but kafirs according to the definition of everyone else.

https://archive.org/details/The1954...tOnTheAntiAhmadiRiotsOfPunjabIn1953/page/n225




Sahi hai bhai



Denial ain't just a river in Egypt

1954

Pakistan was a dominion back then.

 

[M. Sarmad]

1954

Pakistan was a dominion back then.

The Mullahs and the Mullah mindset has been the same for more than one thousand years now.
The history of Takfir, sectarianism and intolerance in Islam is almost as old as the history of the religion itself
Nothing has changed in the past one thousand years or so
It's unlikely that anything will change in foreseeable future
1954 was just a few decades ago
What's your point ?

 

[El Sidd]

The Mullahs and the Mullah mindset has been the same for more than one thousand years now.
The history of Takfir, sectarianism and intolerance in Islam is almost as old as the history of the religion itself
Nothing has changed in the past one thousand years or so
It's unlikely that anything will change in foreseeable future
1954 was just a few decades ago
What's your point ?

Religious discussions are Not allowed

 

[M. Sarmad]

Religious discussions are Not allowed

But the PDF management themselves have brought religion into this thread to discredit the author of the article.

 

[El Sidd]

But the PDF management themselves have brought religion into this thread to discredit the author of the article.

The author is bipins ideological soldier

 

[M. Sarmad]

The author is bipins ideological soldier

The author is not pro India ... He is a patriotic Pakistani

Instead of attacking him personally and questioning his faith and loyalty to Pakistan, why don't you guys try to bring forward counter-arguments and counter-facts ?

 

[El Sidd]

The author is not pro India ... He is a patriotic Pakistani

Instead of attacking him personally and questioning his faith and loyalty to Pakistan, why don't you guys try to bring forward counter-arguments and counter-facts ?

You do realize Pakistani Prime Minister is leading our efforts of Peace with India.