The evolution of Civilization in North India

[Cobra Arbok]

Today, North India is one of the most densely populated regions in the world, home to over 400 million people. It is also home to many ancient civilizations and cultures, and has been the center of some of the most powerful Empires not only in South Asian but also World history, from the Mauryans to the Mughals to the British Raj. I have already started a thread of Ancient South Indian history, so I decided to start one for North India.

The first major Bronze Age Culture of Northern India was the Ochre Colored Pottery culture of the 2nd millennium BC. The OCPC was a predecessor to the north Indian Iron Age as well as the Indo-Aryan Vedic cultures of the Gangetic Plain. The OCPC spread across, Rajasthan, East Punjab, UP, Uttarakhand, and Haryana. The most ancient artifacts of this culture have been found in Rajasthan's Sikar district along the Sahibi River, and include pottery shards and complex terracotta figurines. Some of these artifacts date to the 3rd millennium BC, before the culture matured in North India. They are shown displayed in Rajasthan's Hawa Mahal Museum.

Various potshards dated between 5000-2000 Bc, though likely from the 3rd Millennium BC Some of these are believed to be parts of ancient idols.

some more pieces of Terracotta. 12 is part of a toy crat, 15 part of a bull figurine, and 2 is a piece of a terracotta bangle.
https://www.museumsofindia.org/sp/node/390
By the 2nd Millennium, the culture was established throughout the Gangetic Plains. The ASI has excavated copper axes dating to approximately 2000BC in Saharanapur District in UP.

Probably the most intricate artifact of the Culture is a detailed bronze figure of a woman riding two bulls, circa 2000 BC
To Be Continued
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[Icewolf]

Why don’t Gangoos reference Gangetic civilizations more than they reference Indus civilizations? Either way this a good thread to establish the unique history of Gangetic land.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Why don’t Gangoos reference Gangetic civilizations more than they reference Indus civilizations? Either way this a good thread to establish the unique history of Gangetic land.

To be fair he has equated North India with Gangatic plain and that is entirely right. This is line of thinking we should encourage. I read the entire post and it was interesting. The Gangatic plain is huge [much larger then Indus plain] and the damp climate mated with flat plains makes for very fertile region.

Few niggles I have with OP is I think the population of Ganga basin is over 60% of India - probably 700 million as opposed to 400 he mentions. I would agree Maurayans were entirely Ganga based civilization but Moghuls came from outside and initially were based in Lahore but then moved east into the Ganga as it offered more potential with it's huge population. And the British were always a exogenous civilization with their power centre being London.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

To be fair he has equated North India with Gangatic plain and that is entirely right. This is line of thinking we should encourage. I read the entire post and it was interesting. The Gangatic plain is huge [much larger then Indus plain] and the damp climate mated with flat plains makes for very fertile region.

Few niggles I have with OP is I think the population of Ganga basin is over 60% of India - probably 700 million as opposed to 400 he mentions. I would agree Maurayans were entirely Ganga based civilization but Moghuls came from outside and initially were based in Lahore but then moved east into the Ganga as it offered more potential with it's huge population. And the British were always a exogenous civilization with their power centre being London.

Thanks for replying. No I was not implying the Moghuls and British were indigenous Indian Empires. The Moghuls had Central Asian origins, and ruled over both modern-day India and Pakistan. I am just saying as both empires grew, they consolidated power in the Gangetic plains and made Dehli its capital. Very rarely in history has the entire subcontinent been united, but control of the Gangetic plains is necessary to do so. BTW Dehli is actually o the Fringe of the Gangetic Plains as it borders Punjab and Haryana, and has a mostly dry climate(I was there last summer, and I was barely able to cope with the dry, brual heat as I am used to the humid and comparatively mild climate of Florida). Very different climate than Mumbai and South India, but I have not been to East UP and Bihar so I cannot compare.

Anyway, I use the terminology here loosely. As I mentioned, the culture in my first post likely originated in Rajasthan before spreading North, and Rajasthan is by no means a part of the Gangetic plains. This culture also took root in East Punjab and Haryana, which are also considered distinct from the GP. There is actually a debate as to whether the OCPC is a separate culture or whether it was a part of the Late Harappan culture.(Which I disagree with). It is known that there are several pre-IVC Cities in Rajasthan and Haryana such as Kalibangan and Bhirrana, and I think the people of these cities migrated further north and East looking for more fertile soil, bringing their culture with similarities with them. But I avoided mentioning these murky debates and tried to focus on what is known
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ochre_Coloured_Pottery_culture
Anyway, thanks again for responding. I am going to add more posts to this thread, so stay tuned. It would also be great if you tagged some members to the thread to encourage more discussion.

P.S.- Maybe you and I can form a team. If you see and Indian trying to claim Pakistani history, simply refer them to my threads . That way, they'll get educated on Indian history, and you won't have to make any of your infamous "gangadeshi aboriginal threads."

 

[Cobra Arbok]

So I was originally planning on doing this thread all at once, but it took me over an hour to make the first one, so I decided to take a break. I will probably do one of these a day until I finish.

Black and Red ware Culture- Late Bronze Age and one of the first iron age cultures of North India. It developed in Eastern UP and Bihar from 1400 to 1300 bc and lasted until 700 to 400 bc. In West UP, the culture is dated to the same time but ends by 900 to 700 BC. Some of the first iron artifacts in the Gangetic Plains have been found in Uttar Pradesh dating from 1800 to 1000 BC. The iron age in North India is believed to have occurred only three centuries after Anatolia and two to three centuries before Western Europe.


Black and Red Ware Pottery shards, circa 1800 BC

(right)
Ancient iron furnace(likely around 1400 BC)

Highly corroded iron arrowhead, circa 1800 Bc

More Iron artifacts circa 1500 BC. Unclear as to what their purpose was.

Here's an excellent article about the excavations:
http://archaeologyonline.net/artifacts/iron-ore

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[Cobra Arbok]

A later example of Black and Red Ware pottery.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

Painted Grey Ware culture- In the Western Gangetic Plains(West UP, East Haryana, East Punjab) the PGW predated the Black and Red Ware Culture and lasted from about 1200 BC to 600 BC. It was during this Period that many of the great cities of the Gangetic Plains began to rise, such as Ujjain and Mathura. It is believed the events the Mahabharata was based on occurred during this time.

Pottery from Hastinapura, Uttar Pradesh, Circa 800 BC. Hastinapur was a prominent city in the Mahabharata.

An early shard of PGW Pottery found in Sonkh, Uttar Pradesh, displayed in the Mathura Government Museum.

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[HariPrasad]

Painted Grey Ware culture- In the Western Gangetic Plains(West UP, East Haryana, East Punjab) the PGW predated the Black and Red Ware Culture and lasted from about 1200 BC to 600 BC. It was during this Period that many of the great cities of the Gangetic Plains began to rise, such as Ujjain and Mathura. It is believed the events the Mahabharata was based on occurred during this time.

Pottery from Hastinapura, Uttar Pradesh, Circa 800 BC. Hastinapur was a prominent city in the Mahabharata.

An early shard of PGW Pottery found in Sonkh, Uttar Pradesh, displayed in the Mathura Government Museum.

@Indus Pakistan @niaz @Suriya @HariPrasad @Corona @AyanRay @Taimur Khurram @Śakra @Tshering22 @Nilgiri @KAL-EL

Ancient civilization flourished around the river. The biggest river basin is Ganges river basin. So naturally civilization flourished there.
Ours is an oldes civilization and many thing we made centuries ago is even today very difficult to make. One such example is Kailash temple. A huge temple curved out of a stone mountain by curving out some 2 lakh tons of stone. Even nobody can make it today.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

Extent of the PGW

 

[Cobra Arbok]

Dehli's Purana Qila(Old Fort) has been dated as far back by the ASI as 900 BC, making it part of the latter phase of the PGW. Many archeologists believe it to be the site of the Pandava Capital Indraprastha.

Ancient civilization flourished around the river. The biggest river basin is Ganges river basin. So naturally civilization flourished there.
Ours is an oldes civilization and many thing we made centuries ago is even today very difficult to make. One such example is Kailash temple. A huge temple curved out of a stone mountain by curving out some 2 lakh tons of stone. Even nobody can make it today.

We definitely are a cradle of civilization

 

[Cobra Arbok]

I know I have not posted here for a while, and I apologize. I decided to take a break after posting the myth of 1000 years of Muslim rule thread. Plus, all the independence day threads I have posted seem to draw the trolls out of the woodwork. Anyway, happy independence day to all the Indians and Pakistanis here.

Northern Black Polished wave- the NBP was the last civilization/culture in North India(and parts of Pakistan) during the Ancient period, lasting from approximately 600-200 bc. It was during this time that Many of South Asia's oldest continuously inhabited and most historically significant cities began to develop, such as Patilputra, Mathura, and Ujjain, as well as Peshawar in modern-day Pakistan. Most archeologists believe this period marked an important period of re-urbanization in South Asia after the decline of the Indus Valley Civilization, thus allowing the region to eventually transition to the early medieval Period. The Cities that developed in this period grew to be some of the most prominent in the ancient world. It was also during this period that large, centralized empires began to consolidate power in the Gangetic plains and spread to other parts of the subcontinent. The first of these was the Shishunaga dynasty which took power in 413 ce and originated from the Magadha region with Patilputra as its capital. It was preceded by the Nandas(345 t0 321 BC), famous as the Empire whose strength ultimately forced Alexander to turn back from his India campaign. However, the Nandas did not last long as they were overthrown by a young man name Chandragupta Maurya and his mentor, Chanakya. The Mauryans grew to be the most powerful empire in South Asian history, at their height having an Empire stretching from Kalinga to parts of Afghanistan. The Mauryans are also the only SA Empire to decisively defeat the Greeks in a war when they defeated the Macedonian Emperor Seleucus 1 Nicator. Patilputra(modern day Patna), the capital of the Maurayn Empire, was described as the greatest city of the subcontinent by the Greek ambassador to the Mauryan Empire Megasthenes. It is fair to say Patilputra was SOuth Asia's version of Rome at the time. Below are some Pictures of ruins gound at modern day Patna

Ancient wooden Palissade found at the Bulandi Bagh site. It is believed to have been visited by Megasthenes
First excavated in 1912 below is another image

Remnants of Pillars from the first Patilputra Capital. Notice the obvious Greek influence. 300-100 BC

Some more Mauryan Ruins at Kumhrar site(300 to 100 BCE)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seleucid–Mauryan_war

Masarh Lion, 300 BC
To Be Continued
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[Hamza913]

We definitely are a cradle of civilization

I'd say the Middle East, Europe and South Asia are all some of the most important regions of the world in terms of history.

 

[Cobra Arbok]

I'd say the Middle East, Europe and South Asia are all some of the most important regions of the world in terms of history.

Cant argue with you there. Although by Europe I would specifically refer to the mediteranean and South Europe.

 

[HariPrasad]

This shows that people who think that we have progressed and became civilized in last few hundred years are wrong. This myth is borrowed from West.

 

[Hamza913]

Cant argue with you there. Although by Europe I would specifically refer to the mediteranean and South Europe.

I was pondering over that, but I think including all of Europe is more appropriate since the UK has also played a major role in world history (e.g worlds largest empire, we speak English, etc). Also, remember, many Americans have ancestry from northern Europe.