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The Durand Line

Ahmad Shah Durrani - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

His ransacking of Delhi is his fourth expedition 1757, however Lahore was sacked in 1748, rest of punjab and sindh in 1949.

Abdali was born in Multan, no doubt, however immediately he went back to afghanistan, joined persian army and attached present day Pakistan from the mountains, sacked and conquered all of today's pakistan before moving further east only ain 1757 to Delhi.

So what Abdali did to Delhi is no different thatn what he did to lahore 9 years earlier.

Ok so Abdali wrested Lahore from the Mughals ( and also from the Sikhs ) , thats history ; BUT whats this got to do with the Durand Line ?!?

This thread is about the Durand Line and its significance in the present times and the milage india hopes to get out of this by colluding with afghanistan. What you got to say about this ?
 
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This has to do with the understanding current political situation juxtaposed with history. The number of times today's Durand line has been breached in history and folks from west of the line had crossed over and ruled lahore, would provide a testimony for how unstable and porus the region around the line has been.

In the past there was no country named Pakistan , now there is so quit repeating the same rubbbish again and again about who ruled Lahore and what not.

Ever since the creartion of Pakistan , Lahore has been the heart of Pakistan and none other than people of Pakistan have been its administrators.

india however has tried to use the Durand Line issue against Pakistan.

It was after all a hindu by the name of Mehr Chad Khanna , former Minister of Finance in the British NWFP, who started the UPF ( United Paktoonistan Front) in New Delhi in 1967.

And also to give you a lesson in history the FIRST time the Pahtoonistan issue was formally ignited was on 3rd Sep 1947 ( barely 3 weeks after Pakistan got independance ) in the meeting of Indian Natioanl Congress at Charsada!

I have historitcal documents , signed and relased by none other than the US of A , should you question the facts that Im giving.
 
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Okay so clearly all of you here replying do not understand ANYTHING about the durand line agreement. Firstly, let me make it clear that Afghanistan did not "sell" any land or region to pakistan. This agreement was set by Mortimer Durand (which was what the agreement was named after) of British India (which by the way included pakistan-but was called british INDIA). anyways, this agreement was set to be carried out over 100 years. Therefore, one hundred years have passed by and we should have that land of AFGHANISTAN back. Another point to state: Have you seen the citizens of the areas of NWFP? They do not look pakistani, but Afghan. Their features and CLEARLY their history states that they were Afghans because no Pashtun in the entire world can be anything but Afghan, pashtun is synonymous with Afghan. In addition, 100 years have passed and soon, we are looking for a generation to take back our Afghan land which has now been manifested with foreign invasion. paskistani government knows that there will once be the demand of the regions back to Afghanistan, which is why they pray that Afghanistan's future is doomed, so that we do not gain power to take back our land. pakistan is doing a great job in ruining our future by the way. Anyways, all this talk about that region being part of pakistan...suck balls.
 
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Okay so clearly all of you here replying do not understand ANYTHING about the durand line agreement. Firstly, let me make it clear that Afghanistan did not "sell" any land or region to pakistan. This agreement was set by Mortimer Durand (which was what the agreement was named after) of British India (which by the way included pakistan-but was called british INDIA). anyways, this agreement was set to be carried out over 100 years. Therefore, one hundred years have passed by and we should have that land of AFGHANISTAN back. Another point to state: Have you seen the citizens of the areas of NWFP? They do not look pakistani, but Afghan. Their features and CLEARLY their history states that they were Afghans because no Pashtun in the entire world can be anything but Afghan, pashtun is synonymous with Afghan. In addition, 100 years have passed and soon, we are looking for a generation to take back our Afghan land which has now been manifested with foreign invasion. paskistani government knows that there will once be the demand of the regions back to Afghanistan, which is why they pray that Afghanistan's future is doomed, so that we do not gain power to take back our land. pakistan is doing a great job in ruining our future by the way. Anyways, all this talk about that region being part of pakistan...suck balls.
Tales fo the past dont really apply here since right now , unlike in the past , india and afgoonistan in present times are in bed with each other and are busy kissing each others back sides.

watan faroosh afghans have made hindu india as their new paymaster and are happy to do india's bidding against Pakistan via the fluid border.

This is the problem we in Pakistan have to address and thats why we need to take the afghans to task to settle this issue once and for all so that it cannot be used against Pakistan as it is being used in current times.

india in cohorts with afghanistan is making use of the fluid border between Pakistan and Afghanistan to create disturbances and spread terrorism in Pakistan.

afghans have a history of watan faroshi , Amir Abdur Rehman sold off the lands to the Britsh , the Commie govt of afgoonistan invited the Soviets against their own countrymen and even now the Kharzai govt is happy to hang on to america's balls all the while trying to create trouble for Pakistan.

This situation is simply not accetable and the one reason these haramzadas ( from Daud Khan to Kharzai ) always try to push their luck is because of the fluid nature of the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan.
 
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The muslims of India are proud Indians today, like 1.3 billion of their brothers and sisters, because their forefathers never supported the creation of Pakistan 63 years ago. When both countries started off their respective trysts with destiny on a fresh slate. So now with the added wisdom of the history of the past 63 years as a backdrop to the state of the two nations and their nationals respectively, both within their own countries as well as abroad all over the world, where does the question even arise of an Indian muslim supporting Pakistan? I think it is time you wake up and smell the coffee my friend. The muslims of India made their decision a long time ago. You need to respect their decision and move on with the rest of your countrymen and women towards rebuilding your own nation, without bothering about the gonad clinging propensity and individual preferences of the nationals of another.

Your opinion is your right, but why are you guys not looking at the fact that in what context did jon had to write that reply. The debate is about Durand line and no need to drag any one else into it. And that goes for Mr. Iqbal who actually started it. So rather then conveniently looking away from it. Might as well lecture him for being stupid.
 
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Your opinion is your right, but why are you guys not looking at the fact that in what context did jon had to write that reply. The debate is about Durand line and no need to drag any one else into it. And that goes for Mr. Iqbal who actually started it. So rather then conveniently looking away from it. Might as well lecture him for being stupid.

Khalid I see your point and did even before making my post. We have had a similar discussion before also. But this sort of talk really gets to me my friend, so apologies for reacting. As an Indian who was born a hindu, it really hurts and embarrasses me to see the look on the faces of my muslim brothers when statements like this are made. It cuts deep to the very core of their loyalty and nationality to hear statements like this made by some of you from across the border. And you wonder why they have the added burden of constantly having to prove their Indian blood, not only to themselves and to thie compatriots, but to people like these who so blithely assume that being born into the same religion automatically instils the gene of treason towards the nation into thier very being. Its sad. Its shameful. And it should not be encouraged at least on a broad minded forum such as this. Just my humble two cents.
 
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Khalid I see your point and did even before making my post. We have had a similar discussion before also. But this sort of talk really gets to me my friend, so apologies for reacting. As an Indian who was born a hindu, it really hurts and embarrasses me to see the look on the faces of my muslim brothers when statements like this are made. It cuts deep to the very core of their loyalty and nationality to hear statements like this made by some of you from across the border. And you wonder why they have the added burden of constantly having to prove their Indian blood, not only to themselves and to thie compatriots, but to people like these who so blithely assume that being born into the same religion automatically instils the gene of treason towards the nation into thier very being. Its sad. Its shameful. And it should not be encouraged at least on a broad minded forum such as this. Just my humble two cents.


Lets leave it to this, the irony is that here many Muslims from India accuse us for all of their troubles. Any ways will see u around chill and dil pay mut lay yaar. :cheers:
 
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This situation is simply not accetable and the one reason these haramzadas ( from Daud Khan to Kharzai ) always try to push their luck is because of the fluid nature of the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

I hope our Haramzadahs(karzai, dawod etc) and your Haramzadahs(zardari, gilani, sharif etc) come to a conclusion to seal off the border completely, that will serve both nations well in terms of security, we will be better off as the flow of terrorists and weapons would stop in afghanistan from pakistan. if those guys who beat the drums of pashtoon rights(notably pakistan one of them), then can get this problem to themselves. And those guys from Afghanistan who claim that pashtoons who have relatives on the other side of the border, i can tell them to go to pakistan and live with their relitaves. By the way, as long as the pakhtuns of paksitan are loyal to pakistan, pakistanis need to fear nothing, as the call of durand issue is only coming from ethno nationalists in afghanistan and has no place among the majority of population.
 
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I am sick and tired of guys like you who have one or 2 posts talking nothing but the dead issue of Pashtonistan and then you run away like chickens, i have seen a few people like you in this forum, if you are man enough stay in the forum and defend the interests of Afghanistan.

Okay so clearly all of you here replying do not understand ANYTHING about the durand line agreement. Firstly, let me make it clear that Afghanistan did not "sell" any land or region to pakistan. This agreement was set by Mortimer Durand (which was what the agreement was named after) of British India (which by the way included pakistan-but was called british INDIA).

And the same Amir(Abdul Rahman) signed the agreement with the russians to give them historical place of Panjdeh and the Bigger pamir which is rich in water resources, why dont you ethno natinalists talk about Panjdeh and Pamir? is it because they are Tajik areas and not pashtoon? you are more concerned about your ethnic group than the interest of the whole country.

anyways, this agreement was set to be carried out over 100 years.

What bloody 100 years? I hear this from some Pashtoons of Afghanistan time to time, but when i asked them the proof they present nothing, this 100 years is nothng but a fantasy in your minds.

Therefore, one hundred years have passed by and we should have that land of AFGHANISTAN back.

Not all afghanistan want it, it is the irresponsible guys like you.

Another point to state: Have you seen the citizens of the areas of NWFP? They do not look pakistani, but Afghan. Their features and CLEARLY their history states that they were Afghans because no Pashtun in the entire world can be anything but Afghan, pashtun is synonymous with Afghan.

Racism dont have place in today's world. By the way, 60% of Afghanistan is not pashtoon, so the majority of Afghanistan consider NWFP as the integral part of pakistan.

In addition, 100 years have passed and soon, we are looking for a generation to take back our Afghan land which has now been manifested with foreign invasion.

blah blah
 
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This thread has obejctively turned into LOC, not Durand Line. Thanks to that sikh named Iqbal..wierd.
 
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Okay so clearly all of you here replying do not understand ANYTHING about the durand line agreement. Firstly, let me make it clear that Afghanistan did not "sell" any land or region to pakistan. This agreement was set by Mortimer Durand (which was what the agreement was named after) of British India (which by the way included pakistan-but was called british INDIA). anyways, this agreement was set to be carried out over 100 years. Therefore, one hundred years have passed by and we should have that land of AFGHANISTAN back. Another point to state: Have you seen the citizens of the areas of NWFP? They do not look pakistani, but Afghan. Their features and CLEARLY their history states that they were Afghans because no Pashtun in the entire world can be anything but Afghan, pashtun is synonymous with Afghan. In addition, 100 years have passed and soon, we are looking for a generation to take back our Afghan land which has now been manifested with foreign invasion. paskistani government knows that there will once be the demand of the regions back to Afghanistan, which is why they pray that Afghanistan's future is doomed, so that we do not gain power to take back our land. pakistan is doing a great job in ruining our future by the way. Anyways, all this talk about that region being part of pakistan...suck balls.


For the record.

Abdali had annexed Punjab, Sindh, Kashmir as well as parts of Baluchistan into the Afghan Kingdom carved out from the Persian and Moghal domains. However he began losing Punjab to the Sikhs soon after his last campaign in 1762 and by the time of his death in 1772 Durranis had in effect lost the control of Punjab to the Sikhs. Only their governors at Kasur and at Multan held out.

Ahmad Shah's grandson Shah Zaman appointed Ranjit Singh (circumstances forced him to do so) governor of Punjab which marked the end of Durrani rule south of Indus and rise of the Sikh rule under Ranjit Singh.

Ranjit Singh took full advantage of the quarrel between Mahamud Shah and Shuja Shah and captured Peshawar in 1818 for the first time, appointing Jahandad Khan as their governor. Jehandad was expelled by an Afghan lashkar in 1822 under Dost Mohammed Khan. Sikh general Hari Singh Nalwa recaptured Peshawar in 1823 along with Jehangira and Naushera.

In 1827 Syed Ahmed Braelvi formed an Islamic Emirates in the region. This was finally eliminated in 1831 by defeat of the Emirate forces at Balakot. Final attempt to regain Peshawar was in 1836 when Dost Mohammed Khan sent another lashkar under his son who defeated Sikh forces at Jamrud but were unable to take Peshawar and lands south Khyber were forever lost to the Afghanistan government. The whole area fell under the British rule after East India company forces ended Sikha Shahi in 1849.

Therefore without any disrespect to the Afghan members, let us be very clear that while it is true that Afghans did not sell their lands south of Khyber, they lost it in war with the Sikhs. Just as it was wrested from the Moghuls by Ahmed Shah a hundred years before. Afghan right to these lands was therefore forfeit as long ago as 1836.
 
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Therefore without any disrespect to the Afghan members, let us be very clear that while it is true that Afghans did not sell their lands south of Khyber, they lost it in war with the Sikhs. Just as it was wrested from the Moghuls by Ahmed Shah a hundred years before. Afghan right to these lands was therefore forfeit as long ago as 1836.

Dear Niaz, people in general dont give a damn about NWFP(or whatever you call it) in Afghanistan or on the cyber space. it is only the ethno nationalists who are igniting this issue. Their ethnic interests is alot more dear to them than the interests of Afghanistan. As i mentioned before, Afghanistan have lost its territory in the past, but why dont these guys talk about other parts of the lost territories? ignore these silly people, they are nothng but a bunch of confused guys. These ethno nationalists and their leaders have long f***ed afghanistan, if we see the divisions in afghanistan, it is because of these ethnic oriented policies by the rulers in the last century.
 
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^If only all the Afghans acted like you our relations with Afghanistan today would be much better.We mad absolutely horrible choice by supporting Puhstoons of Afghanistan only.That's like india having diplomatic relations with Balochis of Pakistan only.We should have good relations with all ethnicities of Afghanistan..does not matter if they are tajiks, uzbeks etc
 
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Pakistan's Ethnic Fault Line

By Selig S. Harrison
Monday, May 11, 2009

To American eyes the struggle raging in Pakistan with the Taliban is about religious fanaticism. But in Pakistan it is about an explosive fusion of Islamist zeal and simmering ethnic tensions that have been exacerbated by U.S. pressures for military action against the Taliban and its al-Qaeda allies. Understanding the ethnic dimension of the conflict is the key to a successful strategy for separating the Taliban from al-Qaeda and stabilizing multiethnic Pakistan politically.

The Pakistani army is composed mostly of Punjabis. The Taliban is entirely Pashtun. For centuries, Pashtuns living in the mountainous borderlands of Pakistan and Afghanistan have fought to keep out invading Punjabi plainsmen. So sending Punjabi soldiers into Pashtun territory to fight jihadists pushes the country ever closer to an ethnically defined civil war, strengthening Pashtun sentiment for an independent "Pashtunistan" that would embrace 41 million people in big chunks of Pakistan and Afghanistan.

This is one of the main reasons the army initially favored a peace deal with a Taliban offshoot in the Swat Valley and has resisted U.S. pressure to go all out against jihadist advances into neighboring districts. While army leaders fear the long-term dangers of a Taliban link-up with Islamist forces in the heartland of Pakistan, they are more worried about what they see as the looming danger of Pashtun separatism.

Historically, the Pashtuns were politically unified before the British Raj. The Pashtun kings who founded Afghanistan ruled over 40,000 square miles of what is now Pakistan, an area containing more than half of the Pashtun population, until British forces defeated them in 1847, pushed up to the Khyber Pass and imposed a disputed boundary, the Durand Line, that Afghanistan has never accepted. Over Pashtun nationalist protests, the British gave these conquered areas to the new, Punjabi-dominated government of Pakistan created in the 1947 partition of India.

At various times since, Afghan governments have challenged Pakistan's right to rule over its Pashtun areas, alternatively pushing for an autonomous state to be created within Pakistan, an independent "Pashtunistan" or a "Greater Afghanistan" that would directly annex the lost territories.

Fears of Pashtunistan led Pakistan to support jihadist surrogates in the Afghan resistance during the Soviet occupation in the 1980s and, later, to build up the Taliban. Ironically, during its rule in Kabul the Taliban refused to endorse the Durand Line despite pressure from Islamabad. Afghan President Hamid Karzai has also resisted, calling it "a line of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers."

The British got the most rebellious Pashtun tribes to acquiesce to their rule only by giving them formal autonomous status in their own "Federally Administered Tribal Areas" (FATA). This autonomy was respected by successive Pakistani governments until the Bush administration pressured former president Pervez Musharraf into sending his army into those areas in 2002, displacing 50,000 people. Since then, Predator strikes have killed more than 700 Pashtun civilians.

So how should the Obama administration proceed?

Militarily, the United States should lower its profile by ending airstrikes. By arousing a Pashtun sense of victimization at the hands of outside forces, the conduct of the "war on terror" in FATA, where al-Qaeda is based, has strengthened the jihadist groups the U.S. seeks to defeat.

Politically, U.S. policy should be revised to demonstrate that America supports the Pashtun desire for a stronger position in relation to the Punjabi-dominated government in Islamabad.

The Pashtuns in FATA treasure their long-standing autonomy and do not like to be ruled by Islamabad. As a March 13 International Crisis Group report recognized, what they want is integration into the Pashtun Northwest Frontier Province (NWFP).

The United States should support Pashtun demands to merge the NWFP and FATA, followed by the consolidation of those areas and Pashtun enclaves in Baluchistan and the Punjab into a single unified "Pashtunkhwa" province that enjoys the autonomy envisaged in the inoperative 1973 Pakistan constitution.

In the meantime, instead of permitting Islamabad to administer the huge sums of U.S. aid going into FATA, the Obama administration should condition the aid's continuance on most of it being dispensed in conjunction with the NWFP provincial government.

Al-Qaeda and its "foreign fighters," who are mostly Arab, depend on local support from the Taliban for their FATA sanctuary. Unlike al-Qaeda, with its global terrorist agenda, most of the Taliban factions focus on local objectives in Afghanistan and FATA; they do not pose a direct threat to the United States. U.S. policy should therefore welcome any new peace initiatives by the secular Pashtun leaders of the Awami National Party, now ruling the NWFP, designed to separate Taliban and Taliban-allied Islamist factions from al-Qaeda. As in Swat, military force should be a last resort.

In the conventional wisdom, either Islamist or Pashtun identity will eventually triumph, but it is equally plausible that the result could be what Pakistani ambassador to Washington Husain Haqqani has called an "Islamic Pashtunistan." On March 1, 2007, Haqqani's Pashtun predecessor as ambassador, the retired Maj. Gen. Mahmud Ali Durrani, said at a seminar at the Pakistan Embassy, "I hope the Taliban and Pashtun nationalism don't merge. If that happens, we've had it, and we're on the verge of that."

Selig S. Harrison is the author of the report "Pakistan: The State of the Union," based on a six-month study of ethnic tensions in Pakistan issued last week by the Center for International Policy. A former Post bureau chief in South Asia, he has written five books on the region.

Selig S. Harrison - The Fault Line Between Pashtuns and Punjabis in Pakistan - washingtonpost.com
 
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