The DRDO Puts Out A Glowing 'Year Gone By'

[amardeep mishra]

Take the last CAG or Parliamentary standing committee reports, the statements of the last 3 DM's, or of the current PM since they all rip DRDO for the same thing, failing to deliver India what it needs!

On the other hand ,i have not only read the CAG report but also have a pdf copy of the report that critically examines DRDO's progress in naval research. I am not shying away from anything,For i have worked in one such lab and know the workings of industry!in case you want me to explain you various aspects of technology that were painstakingly developed ,i can do that as well.but your baseless rants based on CAG report "without knowing the ground realities" is utterly frustrating!
Your "loling" would not help you in any way, instead read that CAG report again and talk to someone with experience

 

[sancho]

@sancho On the other thread you were saying DRDO should go for more joint projects and here you are saying LRSAM is not DRDO's accomplishment.

Wrong, I am saying that DRDO can't sell the test done by the Israelis as DRDO's success for 2014! You should read the quoted part too, to understand the reply.

On the other hand ,i have not only read the CAG report but also have a pdf copy of the report that critically examines DRDO's progress in naval research. I am not shying away from anything,For i have worked in one such lab and know the workings of industry!in case you want me to explain you various aspects of technology that were painstakingly developed ,i can do that as well.but your baseless rants based on CAG report "without knowing the ground realities" is utterly frustrating!
Your "loling" would not help you in any way, instead read that CAG report again and talk to someone with experience

Of course you do, that's why you ran away with distractions, instead of facing the reality, that DRDO is actually responsible for the opposite of what you stated. There is no "industrial maturity in the country" as long as DRDO does not finish their projects. How can we improve industrially, when there is no product to produce, to maintain or to upgrade?
There is no ecosystem available for indigenous aviation, as long as projects like LCA, Rustom, or Saras from NAL will be finished and even with the available know how base, HAL managed to not finish the HTT40 project as well, which again shows the problem when we fail to deliver the end product. It don't has to be world class, it can have "some" delays or cost-over runs, but not several decades like in the case of LCA, with core projects within resulting into failures!
That's why it's important to finish LCA first, to properly develop the MK2, before DRDO starts dreaming about AMCA and the same goes for serval other projects, that simply are not finished.

 

[Agent_47]

How is that an accomplishment of DRDO??? The fact even is, apart that the program is still delayed and the navy is forced to buy Barak 1 missiles, that the Israelis are inducting the missile, while we can't because there are still issues on our side. So who is DRDO trying to fool here?



And still no sign of NAG, which again forces IA to procure foreign counterparts and it is still expected that Rudra and LCH will use a foreign missile.



MK1's performance not on par with Russian missiles it is meant to replace, MK2 launch was expected by the end of 2014, didn't happen though.



FOC not cleared as planned in 2014, delayed to mid 2015 and now even to the end of 2015 and they still dare to hype it as an accomplishment and talk about milestones???



NP2 was expected to be rolled out in november, didn't happend.



But was expected to be inducted by April 2014, again nothing happend!



Vs the failure to develop Kaveri engine, which ended in the biggest shame of the year 2014!



Dhanush howitzer with problems, Bhim not even possible on their own, but better a low capable howitzer on a far too big platform, than no howitzer at all right?



Are they talking about the licence production of a foreign Sonar here as a success of DRDO?



And still the tank belongs to the most heaviest in the world, so more protection, but still less mobility at least according to it's customer...
...
...

They can brag about minor achievments and tests as much as they want, but it's not worth anything, as long as they keep failing to deliver the end product into operational service to the forces, because that's what makes us the biggest arms importer of the world!

 

[sancho]

No, I am realistic based on DRDO's track record!

 

[sancho]

DRDO, the giant firing blanks

The unceremonious sacking of DRDO chief Avinash Chander on January 13 well before the end of his current tenure and the shabby and graceless manner in which it was done was further compounded by the statement of defence minister Manohar Parrikar that even he came to know of this decision only through the media although he had recommended it earlier to the Appointments Committee of the Cabinet. It was suggested that the services of the DRDO chief were being abruptly terminated since the government wanted to induct someone younger from within the organisation “with an urge for development.”...

...The DRDO had to navigate through this adversarial domain with limited fiscal, HR and technological assets and its 56-year record is mixed and muddied. The more visible success is in the strategic domain where the Indian nuclear deterrent was enabled to a large extent by the scientific and technological eco-system nurtured by the ‘trimurti’ – the atomic energy-space-DRDO combine.

There are other areas such as sonars, radars and electronic warfare where the DRDO has enabled the armed forces but the disappointment is with larger platforms such as the main battle tank, the light combat aircraft and the Trishul anti-missile defence system.

In each case, the DRDO promised more than it could deliver and consequently prevented the armed forces from importing the inventory sorely needed for maintaining appropriate operational capability. While time and cost overruns in such projects are the norm in other countries as well – DRDO has not been able to win the trust and confidence of the user – the Indian military and has often played the role of a dog in the manger.

The case of the failed Trishul surface-to-air missile is particularly deplorable and reeks of deliberate obfuscation by the DRDO with fabricated aspersions leading to an FIR being filed against the political and naval apex in 2006. The trust deficit between the military leadership and the DRDO is deep and bitter and Admiral Arun Prakash, former Naval chief, charges the institution with “intellectual dishonesty.”

The strategic management of high technology is a complex managerial domain and is mediated as much by tangible scientific and technological acumen and capacity, as also by national culture and the collective effort to strive for excellence. India while blessed with considerable individual excellence in these domains has not burnished its manufacturing capability across the board.

The first gunpowder factory was established in India in Ishapore in 1787 and a gun and carriage manufacturing facility in 1801. Allied operations in southeast Asia during WW II provided a tremendous boost with the setting up of ordnance factories and aircraft-overhaul facilities in India. Instead of capitalising on this sound foundation, post 1947 and the debacle of 1962, the higher national security apparatus was unable to nurture an eco-system that would ensure something as basic as an Indian-designed personal weapon.

Nothing demonstrated this failure better than the eventual rejection of the DRDO-designed Indian Small Arms System (Insas) by the Army. Consequently more than 50 years after 1962, India, which has a uniformed constituency of almost two million (military, para-military and police), does not have appropriate indigenous design and manufacturing capacity to equip its soldiers with a modern personal weapon...

...Dramatically sacking the DRDO chief is more symbolic than substantive as regards infusing institutional vitality.

DRDO, the giant firing blanks

 

[sancho]

Over Rs 16,000 cr spent, DRDO yet to finish vital projects

Vital defence projects that have been taken up by the country's premier Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) over the last several years, do not show any signs of completion despite thousands of crores of taxpayers' money spent on them.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar, while detailing the nine major DRDO projects that have not been able to meet their deadlines, stated in Parliament that Rs 16,708 crore have been spent on these projects that were scheduled to be completed years ago.

Some of these projects, such as the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), Tejas, Phase II, which was expected to be completed by December 2008, has now been pushed to the end of this month. The government had sanctioned Rs 5,777 crore for this project. The first of the LCAs, which was conceived in 1983, was handed over to the Indian Air Force (IAF) in January this year by Parrikar, 32 years after the project started.

Similarly, the probable date of completion of the Naval Light Combat Aircraft (LCA, Navy) Phase I, which was expected to be completed by March 2010, is under revision. One of the reasons submitted by the Defence Minister for the delay is that "technology challenges have been significantly higher than originally anticipated". The sanctioned cost of this project is Rs 1,714.98 crore

The probable date of completion of another much talked about project, Aero Engine Kaveri, which was supposed to be completed by December 1996, is also under revision. Sources within DRDO claim that the project, for which the government had sanctioned Rs 2,839 crore, is likely to be shelved

The Air Borne Early Warning & Control (AEW&C) System, for which the government has sanctioned Rs 2,275 crore, is running four years behind the probable date of completion. It was supposed to be handed over to the IAF in October 2011. This has now been postponed to December 2015.

Another crucial project, Long Range Surface-to-Air Missile (LR-SAM), which was allotted Rs 2,606.02 crore is also running four years behind its completion date. It was supposed to be completed by May 2011, but the DRDO has now promised to finish it by December 2015.

The helicopter version third generation anti tank guided missile, whose promised date of completion was December 2010, is now expected to be completed by January 2018. Air-to-air missile Astra too is running four years behind its scheduled date of completion and is expected to be ready by December 2016.

The project on the dual colour missile approach warning system for fighter aircraft and advanced lightweight torpedo, which were to be completed by the DRDO in 2013, are now likely to be executed by the latter part of 2015. For the financial year 2013-14, a total of Rs 10,610.17 crore was allocated to DRDO, of which Rs 5,552.57 crore was in revenue and Rs 5,057.60 crore was in capital...

Over Rs 16,000 cr spent, DRDO yet to finish vital projects

 

[OrionHunter]

Reforms are the only solution to DRDO also why is the Army not inducting Desi ATGMS

DRDO is a cosy place for the rehabilitation of retired bureaucrats and political favorites who have no bloody clue on weapons and equipment. These buggers need to be kicked out pronto.

 

[IND151]

Answer me these simple question-
(a) Does the deployment of weapons the "ONLY" criteria of success of a project?
part (i) how do you develop systems when there is a lack of industrial maturity in the country?
part (ii)More importantly how do you create the required "ecosystem" conducive for research?
Part (i) and (ii) are vital for the design of systems
FYI: There are two separate types of projects taken up by DRDO-
1)TD/R&D project wherein the success is gauged by the flawless demostration of technology
2)MM/staff project wherein the success is gauged by acceptance by the user and post TD production activities.Please note that success of (1) leads to (2) whereas (2) leads to induction of the concerned system into armed forces.Usually (2) comes attached with stringent GSQR
But from a purely design perspective (1) bears more weight

(b)Have you ever had the opportunity to visit a lab or a seminar?
(c)Have you ever had the opportunity to interact with some of the engineers who actually worked on these projects?

I agree with you

sancho is unnecessarily harsh towards DRDO at times........................

 

[sancho]

sancho is unnecessarily harsh towards DRDO at times........................

Because I don't buy their promises until they actually deliver and as you can see, there is more than enough evidence to back that up, especially since nearly all government and forces officials say exactly the same too! Closing the eye's over DRDO's failures and "hope" that they will improve on their own simply doesn't cut it. That's why the former MoD put DRDO funding on hold, that's why the current MoD kicked the DRDO Chief and that's why even the PM is criticizing DRDO publically.
If you want DRDO and Indian defence industry to improve, you have to hold them accountable, as simple as that!

 

[IND151]

Because I don't buy their promises until they actually deliver and as you can see, there is more than enough evidence to back that up, especially since nearly all government and forces officials say exactly the same too! Closing the eye's over DRDO's failures and "hope" that they will improve on their own simply doesn't cut it. That's why the former MoD put DRDO funding on hold, that's why the current MoD kicked the DRDO Chief and that's why even the PM is criticizing DRDO publically.
If you want DRDO and Indian defence industry to improve, you have to hold them accountable, as simple as that!

DRDO has faults but challenges too.

We dont have Military Industrial Comlex as big and mature like that of Russia forget US, neither we have massive economy like China/US.

Despite this DRDO has given us Akash SAMs, PAD, PDV, K 4 and Agni 5.

They have many other successful products too.

They are not alone responsible for progarm delays.

 

[Ronin]

A glorious year topped with the unceremonious departure of drdo chief chandra

 

[amardeep mishra]

I agree with you

sancho is unnecessarily harsh towards DRDO at times........................

You see, I've said it in past and I'll repeat it now, the fundamental issue here is criminal lack of accountability in various DRDO labs- this is my own personal experience.But in spite of that they've painstakingly developed various technologies, in certain sectors they've had more success trelativelyhan the other.
Overall I'd say,MoD should reprimand or sack the directors of the lab if that lab has repeatedly failed to adhere to timelines

Baring a few critical technologies,I don't really think in other projects they should encounter such huge delays.I mean in gas turbine project it is acceptable , but in AEWCS,TRAINER,and few more projects it is, not at all acceptable

 

[sancho]

DRDO has faults but challenges too.

And their main challenge are they themselfs! Catastrophic project management and planing, illogical search of project partners, illogical choice of projects that not even the forces wants, taking up too many projects at once with poor delivery rates. These are problems within DRDO, not because of external issues and you simply can't justify the huge problems they caused in the bulk of the projects, with some fields where they do have success. They do have some success in the LCA project too, with subsystems like materials or avionics were developed with pretty good performance, but that doesn't counter the huge disaster they caused in general, with radar and engine developments failing, the overall project delayed for decades. Not the good performance in minor fields will make LCA to a success, but getting the overall project finished and according the the required performance. Just as DRDO as a whole is not successful because they have "some" fields with good performance, when the overall performance is far below the needs of the country!

 

[amardeep mishra]

with radar and engine developments failing, the overall

My friend, I've personally attended dr varadarajan's seminar, and his lab is one of those successful labs of DRDO,and productive.Radars is one of their success stories.While I agree,the kaveri should have been handled a bit differently.The biggest mistake they did was slaving LCA to kaveri.

 

[sancho]

Radars is one of their success stories.

Not fighter radars, that's why we are buying Israeli radars for LCA MK1 and upgraded Jags, which even you had admitted earlier.

The biggest mistake they did was slaving LCA to kaveri.

One mistake among many, but surely a crucial one!