The diplomatic battle between China and Japan is taking a Latin American road trip

[IsaacNewton]

good for South America then.

Not everything have to be zero sum.

Japan (or China) working closer with Latin America will benefit Latin America's economy, which in turn will be a market for China (or Japan).

 

[Genesis]

 

[Aepsilons]

good for South America then.

Not everything have to be zero sum.

Japan (or China) working closer with Latin America will benefit Latin America's economy, which in turn will be a market for China (or Japan).

Precisely. In this scenario, they benefit.

 

[tranquilium]

Kanpai!





The article was written by Ms. Lily Kuo, not I. As I said in my prior post, readers (referring to you and others) are entitled to their own subjective interpretation.



Absolutely nothing. Latin American countries that are signing investment deals with Japan , as per Abe Shinzo's tour, will receive our patronage. At the same time, we have signed plethora of contracts on business outsourcing, and energy acquisition. They will benefit.

And so will Japan, of course.

That's not what your opening post said.

 

[senheiser]

so putin and xi also had a geo political battle in LA because both visited the continent at the same time?

 

[JSCh]

The Japanese is up to their usual devious duplicitous trick again.

Japan, Brazil to repeat refrain on rule of law | The Japan Times
Japan, Brazil to repeat refrain on rule of law
Kyodo
Jul 27, 2014

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff are expected to stress in a joint statement this week that they share basic values including respecting the rule of law, a Japanese delegation source said Saturday.

Their statement, to be released following their meeting Friday, reflects Beijing’s unilateral declaration of an air defense identification zone over the East China Sea last November as well as its growing assertiveness in the East and South China seas.

Aimed at countering Beijing in light of recent actions such as repeated clashes between Chinese and Vietnamese ships, a draft joint statement showed that Japan and Brazil will mention that conflicts in the South China Sea should be resolved peacefully and in line with international law without the use of force or threat, according to the source.
==========================================================================

The Brazilian retort is at post #5.

"Brazilian Press Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs Rubens told Global Times reporters on the 28th, Abe's statements during his visit to Brazil should not be released to the outside world (without confirmation of the other countries). He said that on the Japan-Brazil bilateral statements is unlikely to involve China and the Sino-Japanese territorial dispute."

==========================================================================

Now, one have to ask the question,

if the Japanese is confident that the Brazilian is willing to participate in the Japanese version of diplomacy, i.e. Japan against China game, why would the Japanese need to release such statement before the visit?

Wouldn't it be far better to release it on its right time with the host consent and score a diplomatic victory?

Why release a statement beforehand and get a face palm from Brazil? It would be quite disrespectful towards the Brazilian host to put word into their mouth without their consent, wouldn't it?

Apparent according to the Japanese mindset, whatever they expected to gain is worth the diplomatic price they pay. And is telling of how much regards the Japanese think of the Brazilian position.

 

[Aepsilons]

Good to see an active and healthy rapport between Japan and Latin American states.

Long may our partnership(s) serve our interest(s).

 

[xunzi]

Japan is such a childish diplomatic country. STOP going around the world begging for help! and putting words in other people mouth.

 

[Aepsilons]

Japan is such a childish diplomatic country. STOP going around the world begging for help! and putting words in other people mouth.

Diplomatic rapport , my darling friend. Quid pro quo made manifest.

水是水

 

[Pakistanisage]

Both US and Japanese Economies are either Static or declining slightly, while Chinese Economy is growing at a rapid pace. It is a matter of time before China will surpass these two Economies combined.

 

[Aepsilons]

Both US and Japanese Economies are either Static or declining slightly, while Chinese Economy is growing at a rapid pace. It is a matter of time before China will surpass these two Economies combined.

In capitalism, there are times when economies rise, and there are times when it busts, it is cyclic. China's system is capitalist , it cannot deny it, and it cannot escape the laws of capitalism. The recent Chinese government's plan to restructure and to focus on infrastructural orientation and policy remaking and abandoning a policy of double digit growth should be taken into consideration.

In addition, in a realist scenario, one should also take into consideration the banking policies of China, and also their policy when it comes to Yuan. But I would actually ask @LeveragedBuyout to go more into detail because of his expertise in regards in said subject.

 

[Echo_419]

When Japanese prime minister Shinzo Abe appeals to officials and business people in Central and South America this week, his hosts will be comparing him to another recent visitor: Chinese president Xi Jinping.


Xi wrapped up a nine-day visit to the region last week, and now Abe is making his own nine-day tour, seeking energy deals, markets for its consumer goods—and perhaps most importantly—geopolitical allies. That makes Latin America the latest soft power and economic battleground for China and Japan, trade partners who are also locked in a bitter and long-running rivalry. (Other regions in play include Central Asia, Africa, and Southeast Asia.)


So far, Abe has struck deals between Mexico’s state oil firm Pemex and Japan’s development bank, as well as the Japan Oil, Gas, and Metals National Corporation. He is now headed to Trinidad and Tobago where he’ll likely lobby on behalf of his country’s bid for a rotating seat on the United Nations Security Council, which Beijing vociferously opposes.


As Quartz has pointed out, few Latin American countries are eager to choose between the world’s second and third largest economies. But even if they did, one could argue that the two sides are pretty evenly matched.


The government in Tokyo lacks the raw investment and trade volume that Beijing can offer (China is the largest trading partner of Brazil, Peru, and Chile) but it also doesn’t have to carry the same negative baggage that China has accumulated after years of exporting cheap goods to the region. “While we’re all happy with one side of the story—enjoying the high price for our commodity exports—the economic impact on the currency and manufacturers can be very negative,” Colombian finance minister Mauricio Cárdenas told Bloomberg last year. Though majorities in several Latin American countries view China favorably, opinions toward the country have declined in Brazil and Argentina since 2011 and remain low in Colombia, according to recent surveys by Pew Research (pdf, p.29).


While Chinese exporters compete with local manufacturers for low-margin goods, Japan is targeting Latin American consumers with branded goods that are less seen as direct competitors, from probiotics drinks and instant noodles to Toyota, Honda, and Nissan cars. Japan’s close ties with the United States and its participation in the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which includes Mexico, Peru, and Chile, could also give it an edge. Cultural ties are important too. Some 1.78 million ethnic Japanese also live in Central and South America in areas like Liberdade, a district in Sao Paolo that has the world’s largest Japanese community outside of Japan.


While Xi’s trip was largely focused on business deals—other than a trip to China’s old ideological ally, Fidel Castro—Abe looks set to score some diplomatic points, according to his advance itinerary. Brazil is expected to sign a joint statement with Japan on the two countries’ mutual respect for rule of law and the importance of free and safe navigation in international airspace and the high seas—a statement aimed at Beijing’s actions in the East and South China Seas. Colombia is expected to sign a similar statement.


The diplomatic battle between China and Japan is taking a Latin American road trip – Quartz

That's good but japan should really try to have a Independent Foreign policy & when i say a 'Independent Foreign Policy',I don't Mean a Foreign Policy against the US but a Foreign Policy which does not compromise Japanese Interests to US Interests.That said Latin america is just a small trailer,the real battle btw China & Japan will be to bring SE Asia & India on their side in this Economic Battle.

 

[Pakistanisage]

In capitalism, there are times when economies rise, and there are times when it busts, it is cyclic. China's system is capitalist , it cannot deny it, and it cannot escape the laws of capitalism. The recent Chinese government's plan to restructure and to focus on infrastructural orientation and policy remaking and abandoning a policy of double digit growth should be taken into consideration.

In addition, in a realist scenario, one should also take into consideration the banking policies of China, and also their policy when it comes to Yuan. But I would actually ask @LeveragedBuyout to go more into detail because of his expertise in regards in said subject.

What you said is true in essence but it does not apply to this situation. Here , we are not talking about normal Business Cycles.

What I am talking about here is the fact that US and Japanese Economies grew over last 100 years and both Economies are fully developed and saturated Economies. Now these two Economies have maxed out and can only grow on a small scale. The Chinese Economy over last 20 years has grown from almost nothing to present day 15 trillion dollar Economy and still has ways to go before its GDP growth is maxed out and slows down.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

In capitalism, there are times when economies rise, and there are times when it busts, it is cyclic. China's system is capitalist , it cannot deny it, and it cannot escape the laws of capitalism. The recent Chinese government's plan to restructure and to focus on infrastructural orientation and policy remaking and abandoning a policy of double digit growth should be taken into consideration.

In addition, in a realist scenario, one should also take into consideration the banking policies of China, and also their policy when it comes to Yuan. But I would actually ask @LeveragedBuyout to go more into detail because of his expertise in regards in said subject.

I can't really rehash the entire discussion we've had in the Chinese Economy thread here, but I must agree that nothing is inevitable in this world. The US is not growing as much as we would like, or as much as it would if we didn't have a professional clown running the country, but it is still growing at a comfortable pace compared to the other OECD countries. It's true that China's growth story has dominated the narrative for the last couple of decades, but while the 21st century is certain to be characterized as the Pacific Century, the US is very much a part of that. Relative economic power will largely be characterized by a rising Asia, a declining Europe, and a stable US.

As has happened time and again through history, it has been fairly easy for a rising power to catch up to the dominant power of the day, but the hand-over process, and subsequent leadership by the upstart, are not guaranteed. Germany failed to take over from Great Britain, and indeed, Great Britain's economy is projected to once again surpass Germany's in size in the next couple of decades. China itself was once the largest economy in the world, then it was not. Soon it will be again, if projections hold--but maybe they won't, if China's reform process is mishandled. All it takes is a banking crisis in China to prolong this process for decades, and in the meantime, China's demographics are less favorable than those of the US in the long run. You know what they say about assumptions.

In any case, even assuming that projections hold, the year when China's economy could potentially be larger than that of the US and Japan combined is so far off (at least 50 years), that none of us know what the world will look like at that point. 50 years ago, the US was so far ahead of the rest of the world economically, that our eclipse was unthinkable. 50 years ago, it appeared possible that the USA and USSR would be locked in a centuries-long battle for world dominance. 50 years is a long time, and the world will change radically. Perhaps Japan and China will be allied against the US, or perhaps the US will no longer exist, or perhaps a unified Korea will come into existence that will change the strategic calculations of all players. That's why speculating today about how XYZ country will eventually do ABC in half a century is not helpful to solving today's problems. We don't make decisions today based on what we think will happen 50 years from now, but rather what we know today.

China knows that today, it loses far more than it gains by igniting a war with Japan over some small islands.

What you said is true in essence but it does not apply to this situation. Here , we are not talking about normal Business Cycles.

What I am talking about here is the fact that US and Japanese Economies grew over last 100 years and both Economies are developed and saturated Economies. Now these two Economies have maxed out and can grow on a small scale. The Chinese Economy over last 20 years has grown from almost nothing to present day 15 trillion dollar Economy and still has ways to go before its GDP growth is maxed out and slows down.

The US was down and out in the 1970s. Then the successive financial revolution, re-engineering revolution, and internet revolution re-ignited American growth, and the distance between the US and other industrialized nations started growing again. In the 1970s, China was an economic dwarf. Think about how much can change in 50 years, and then examine if you can still be confident in your assumptions about the next 50.

 

[Pakistanisage]

I


The US was down and out in the 1970s. Then the successive financial revolution, re-engineering revolution, and internet revolution re-ignited American growth, and the distance between the US and other industrialized nations started growing again. In the 1970s, China was an economic dwarf. Think about how much can change in 50 years, and then examine if you can still be confident in your assumptions about the next 50.

I disagree. The US economy was not down and out in the 70's. Only some segments of the Economy were Out, specifically the Automotive Industry viz a viz Japanese Auto market. Chrysler Corporation was on life support and it became evident that at least one of the Big three Auto Industry was taking its last breath. The other two were also not too far behind. All that changed when Chrysler Corporation brought in LEE IACOCA as Chief Executive. As Chrysler revamped its production Ford followed suit and pretty soon American Auto Industry became strong enough to face stiff Japanese competition in Auto Sector. This Auto revolution was followed up by IT Sector success, especially Microsoft Revolution and Intel domination.

Also, remember that the Global Economy had taken a huge Punch in the gut in early 1970's because OIL PRICES had Quadrupled sending all Industrial Economies in a Tailspin. Of all the mightiest Industrial economies , the US Economy was better positioned to take this Four times hike in oil prices because it produced half of its oil. Especially after the OIL Price hike some wells which were not economically viable became viable at higher oil prices thereby increasing US oil Production.

Add to this the fact that US Industry had to restructure itself because it lost some of its Manufacturing base to low wage countries like China, Indonesia and others. So you have to look at the big picture to get a true sense of how the US Economy has tried to reinvent itself and adapt to the changing environment.