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The decadence of the Arab world

You speak of consultation and democracy in context of Libya. I agree. Actually those two were what was the system in Libya until 2011. Please read that political system / theory here.



Yes, some of the work was done by foreign companies but if you consult the Wiki page some of the work was also done in Libya, presumably by Libyans.
I knew this project 15 years ago. I knew the company who did the project. The pipelines was made in foreign countries, and delivered to Libya, including the cement pipeline and steels.
I don't expect anything from them.
 
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The Arab world was very short living (just about 1 century). Abbasids which came in 750 AD were more Persians than Arabs.
 
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By far the greatest cause for the current state of the Arabs is this: The feeling of inferiority against the Europeans, and their need to compensate for it by using Islam to justify their superiority over other Muslims.

This complex has left them essentially losers on both sides; on one hand, they will never be equals to the "West", because they themselves do not believe it; on the other hand, they will never earn the respect, and loyalty of other Muslims.
The only one who seems to have a complex about Arabs is you here..they have never been complexed by the Europeans..in fact they have occupied Spain and portugal and almost half of France for 8 centuries.. And Spread Islam to those Muslim countries you are talking about.. so deal with your complex and don't try to project it on Arabs..
 
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The Arab world was very short living (just about 1 century). Abbasids which came in 750 AD were more Persians than Arabs.
Are you still fabricating history? for the lack of yours!
 
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The only one who seems to have a complex about Arabs is you here..they have never been complexed by the Europeans..in fact they have occupied Spain and portugal and almost half of France for 8 centuries.. And Spread Islam to those Muslim countries you are talking about.. so deal with your complex and don't try to project it on Arabs..
I understand why what I am saying would be hard to accept, and offensive. I am certainly not saying that all Arabs have this complex. Many Arabs are confident, humble, enlightened people, who embody the essence of the Islamic character. Unfortunately, they do not wield much influence in the places that matter - government, media, even religious circles.

It has not always been this way. This inferiority complex only goes back to European colonization (maybe even dating back to the ascent of the Turks), not before. Spain, Portugal, and France were a long time ago, so they are not relevant. Moreover, it can be argued that non-Arab Berbers, Kurds, Persians, and even the natives had a large role in the conquest and the development of the rich Islamic culture of Southern Europe. So Arabs cannot take sole credit for that.

The fact is that Arabs derive their strength from Islam and its institutions. But the European colonizers, with the help of their local enablers, systematically dismantled and discredited these institutions. The Arabs, in the absence of a strong base in Islamic knowledge and wisdom, lost confidence and started to believe that their lost glory could only be regained by adopting Western models of progress.

The main victim of this complex was the generation born in the 1930s, and 1940s. Their children, who were born in the 1960's and 1970s were raised by parents of that mindset. It is only in the millennial generation that we are seeing real change, and growing confidence. So there is every reason to be hopeful.

As for the spread of Islam, yes, Arabs did spread Islam to non-Arab countries. Although, again, it was not just the Arabs who deserve credit. For example, while it is true that the Arabs were the first to reach erstwhile India, Islam really spread, and took root as a result of the invasions from the Northeast i.e. Central Asia.

The amount of credit that the Arabs deserve for spreading Islam is debatable. But that is not relevant. The fact is that many Arabs believe themselves to be superior to non-Arabs because Arabic is the language of the Qur'an, and because the Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم) and the first Muslims were Arabs, and because they take credit for bestowing the gift of Islam on the non-Arab people.

There is a general, often implicit, notion that a non-Arab can never be as good a Muslim as an Arab. This idea is based on two assumptions: first, that a non-Arab cannot truly master the Arabic language, which is a prerequisite to understanding the true essence of Islam; second, because Arabic culture is Islamic culture, a non-Arab cannot truly embody the Islamic culture. Both of these assumptions are false.

I would advise you to be more objective in your efforts of understanding the reasons for our current state (yes, I do believe that we are one people under Islam), and refrain from giving knee-jerk reactions when you read something uncomfortable.

When I look at the Muslims of today (Arabs and non-Arabs), I am not depressed at all. We have come a long way, from a subjugated people, to where we stand now. The road has been hard, but we still have a great distance to cover. We must not pretend that we have arrived, and deny the challenges that lie ahead.
 
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I understand why what I am saying would be hard to accept, and offensive. I am certainly not saying that all Arabs have this complex. Many Arabs are confident, humble, enlightened people, who embody the essence of the Islamic character. Unfortunately, they do not wield much influence in the places that matter - government, media, even religious circles.

It has not always been this way. This inferiority complex only goes back to European colonization (maybe even dating back to the ascent of the Turks), not before. Spain, Portugal, and France were a long time ago, so they are not relevant. Moreover, it can be argued that non-Arab Berbers, Kurds, Persians, and even the natives had a large role in the conquest and the development of the rich Islamic culture of Southern Europe. So Arabs cannot take sole credit for that.

The fact is that Arabs derive their strength from Islam and its institutions. But the European colonizers, with the help of their local enablers, systematically dismantled and discredited these institutions. The Arabs, in the absence of a strong base in Islamic knowledge and wisdom, lost confidence and started to believe that their lost glory could only be regained by adopting Western models of progress.

The main victim of this complex was the generation born in the 1930s, and 1940s. Their children, who were born in the 1960's and 1970s were raised by parents of that mindset. It is only in the millennial generation that we are seeing real change, and growing confidence. So there is every reason to be hopeful.

As for the spread of Islam, yes, Arabs did spread Islam to non-Arab countries. Although, again, it was not just the Arabs who deserve credit. For example, while it is true that the Arabs were the first to reach erstwhile India, Islam really spread, and took root as a result of the invasions from the Northeast i.e. Central Asia.

The amount of credit that the Arabs deserve for spreading Islam is debatable. But that is not relevant. The fact is that many Arabs believe themselves to be superior to non-Arabs because Arabic is the language of the Qur'an, and because the Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم) and the first Muslims were Arabs, and because they take credit for bestowing the gift of Islam on the non-Arab people.

There is a general, often implicit, notion that a non-Arab can never be as good a Muslim as an Arab. This idea is based on two assumptions: first, that a non-Arab cannot truly master the Arabic language, which is a prerequisite to understanding the true essence of Islam; second, because Arabic culture is Islamic culture, a non-Arab cannot truly embody the Islamic culture. Both of these assumptions are false.

I would advise you to be more objective in your efforts of understanding the reasons for our current state (yes, I do believe that we are one people under Islam), and refrain from giving knee-jerk reactions when you read something uncomfortable.

When I look at the Muslims of today (Arabs and non-Arabs), I am not depressed at all. We have come a long way, from a subjugated people, to where we stand now. The road has been hard, but we still have a great distance to cover. We must not pretend that we have arrived, and deny the challenges that lie ahead.
You are still showing some kind of complex towards the Arabs..eventhough you are trying to wrap it in logic.. I said the Arabs are the first to spread Islam to the rest of the world so what you said about others does not really matter much in this context because they were Muslims by then..

As for that general, implicit notion that a non-Arab can never be as good a Muslim as an Arab.. shows some complex again.. real Muslims never think that.. neither those assumptions.. The spirit of Islam to Arabs whom as you say understand Koran in their native language.. is exactly the opposite of what you are trying to insinuate..Since they were the first to catch Islam's spirit of no one is better than the other but only by the strength of his faith.. that is mostly why they were so successful in spreading Islam.. And because that is the main thing that has attracted non-Muslims at those times, since they were not used to this thought nor to its real application in life.. The Turks is a good example.. from prisoners of wars..not to say slaves, to running the Khilafat.. if that proves anything.. it proves this point exactly.. So don't tell me how to feel when you don't seem to know what you are talking about.. or telling your feelings instead of facts..
 
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I understand why what I am saying would be hard to accept, and offensive. I am certainly not saying that all Arabs have this complex. Many Arabs are confident, humble, enlightened people, who embody the essence of the Islamic character. Unfortunately, they do not wield much influence in the places that matter - government, media, even religious circles.

It has not always been this way. This inferiority complex only goes back to European colonization (maybe even dating back to the ascent of the Turks), not before. Spain, Portugal, and France were a long time ago, so they are not relevant. Moreover, it can be argued that non-Arab Berbers, Kurds, Persians, and even the natives had a large role in the conquest and the development of the rich Islamic culture of Southern Europe. So Arabs cannot take sole credit for that.

The fact is that Arabs derive their strength from Islam and its institutions. But the European colonizers, with the help of their local enablers, systematically dismantled and discredited these institutions. The Arabs, in the absence of a strong base in Islamic knowledge and wisdom, lost confidence and started to believe that their lost glory could only be regained by adopting Western models of progress.

The main victim of this complex was the generation born in the 1930s, and 1940s. Their children, who were born in the 1960's and 1970s were raised by parents of that mindset. It is only in the millennial generation that we are seeing real change, and growing confidence. So there is every reason to be hopeful.

As for the spread of Islam, yes, Arabs did spread Islam to non-Arab countries. Although, again, it was not just the Arabs who deserve credit. For example, while it is true that the Arabs were the first to reach erstwhile India, Islam really spread, and took root as a result of the invasions from the Northeast i.e. Central Asia.

The amount of credit that the Arabs deserve for spreading Islam is debatable. But that is not relevant. The fact is that many Arabs believe themselves to be superior to non-Arabs because Arabic is the language of the Qur'an, and because the Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم) and the first Muslims were Arabs, and because they take credit for bestowing the gift of Islam on the non-Arab people.

There is a general, often implicit, notion that a non-Arab can never be as good a Muslim as an Arab. This idea is based on two assumptions: first, that a non-Arab cannot truly master the Arabic language, which is a prerequisite to understanding the true essence of Islam; second, because Arabic culture is Islamic culture, a non-Arab cannot truly embody the Islamic culture. Both of these assumptions are false.

I would advise you to be more objective in your efforts of understanding the reasons for our current state (yes, I do believe that we are one people under Islam), and refrain from giving knee-jerk reactions when you read something uncomfortable.

When I look at the Muslims of today (Arabs and non-Arabs), I am not depressed at all. We have come a long way, from a subjugated people, to where we stand now. The road has been hard, but we still have a great distance to cover. We must not pretend that we have arrived, and deny the challenges that lie ahead.
Nice analysis.
 
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Dear all, I hope that you wil contribute to the constructive development of this thread and that you will lead the dialogue in a tolerant tone, leaving mutual differences aside. So the question is why have the Arabs lagged behind in the last 8 centuries and fell silent while other nations and civilizations have evolved and risen to unprecedented heights during that time? What are the causes of this?
We must not forget that the Islamic world as a whole lived under the auspices of European colonialism, whether it was Britain, Portugal, France, Italy, or other imperialist countries that America inherited in the modern era, and these colonial countries were the farthest thing in thinking about providing education or creating an educational or industrial renaissance In the countries they occupied, because the main goal was to plunder local wealth and enslave the citizens of these countries. Therefore, a large part, if not the entire Islamic world, was under the weight of the deliberate ignorance of the colonial forces..

For Muslims to have a role, the Islamic world needs time to regain its equilibrium..

Most of the Islamic countries gained their independence from colonialism in the twentieth century only, and some were in the fifties, sixties and seventies..

Colonialism was playing a big role in impoverishing and ignoring people so that they would not revolt against it and robbed of these lands and peoples. Everything can be stolen..

In spite of this, countries such as Iraq, Syria and Egypt presented scholars in many fields, and many of them today are in Europe and America..

Arab and Muslim scientists have a large footprint in the world of medicine, biology, industry, and even in NASA..
 
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The problem with current Arab is their mentality, not being able to accept differences among themselves. Islamist and Secularist/Nasionalis should be able to live side by side and compete in ballots instead of using guns and power to decide who will rule the country.

Democracy has zero correlation with prosperity or advancement.
 
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Democracy has zero correlation with prosperity or advancement.

It depends on the society and leadership as well. You cannot have a system that work by itself. There is always people behind the system.

The thing that is so profound in democracy is that the people have good amount of freedom and relatively we dont need to be afraid in making harsh critics to the government. The leadership can be fallen if they make big mistake since we have elections here every 5 years.
 
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