The curious case of Indian Punjabis

[GURU DUTT]

LoL, you are right. Everybody starts like that. Trust me. When you meet a Pakistani for the first time, they will always talk of these things (I am talking about the average Joe). First comes the dick measuring contest, then come the women, then come the cribbing and then comes the bitching of their own nations and then the realization that by the end there is really not such a big difference.

I can quote something interesting. Of course it is individual and hence can have no bearing on anything that matters. It is just a personal experience and should be taken that way. I met a Pathan in Dubai. We were in a restaurant. We started discussing Biryani. I said that Hyderabadi Biryani is the best. He agreed. Then he realize that I am talking about Indian Hyderabad. So then we discussed biryani flaws for some time. Then he asked me how often do I eat Hyderabadi Biryani. I told him that it is a 2:45 hrs flight from Delhi so really not that often, but I go to Paradise or one of the Hyderabad houses when I can. He was totally surprised to know that the flight from Delhi to Hyderabad is almost the same as the one from Islamabad to Dubai. Then came the discussion about the partition. I mentioned how Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan (Frontier Gandhi) had opposed it. He was immediately proud that he shares the lineage because Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan was also a Pathan. Then he wanted to know more about India. He asked me all kind of questions about north Indians and South Indians and Marathis and all that. He asked me about kind of roads and all that. It was fun later.

Like I said, this is just one odd experience, may be this does not reflect anything. Just an anecdote. But the point I was trying to make was that due to the natural pre-concieved animosity, the initial reactions (initial period is again relative ), could be different and there could be difference between the appetizer and by the time you arrive at the pudding. It could turn out quite sweet actually .

But then things cannot be just generalized on that base. But if you would have read what Nawaz said last month, it was totally different from the standard regular Pakistani discourse about the situation and existence and the origin of the two nations.

Right now the origin is relatively recent in the memory. Over time generations will have other important things to consider. UK and US were enemies someday, remember?

Your family experience needs to be respected. The difficulties that our elders faced in those traumatic times actually should make us more humble and resolute and treasure the result of their hard work = our country. Maybe someday the commercial relationship will vindicate the pain that your elders went through.

Thanks sir ,
You are a really good person your last para touched me & almost made me cry thou im not a very emotional person myself... May GOD BLESS YOU , Thanks Again .

 

[Manas]

I think thats a load of BS.

I dont know about the Bongs but we were living with them 60 years ago I see no reason why we cant do the same now if the politics allows us. And I take it that you have been fed on the pop history that Sikhs are enemies of Muslims. Read about this place Malerkotla and then tell me if Sikhs and Muslims cannot live together.

No , the sikh leaders who choose india over Pakistan knowing they are going to loose more than half punjab , did it a for some good reasons and they knew Sikh history , Sikh politics better than you .

Don't give the example of Malerkotla ,its sharpen the focus.

Just tell ion how many muslims left in indian punjab or how many sikhs left in pakistani punjab today ??


Less than 1% . Bangladesh had 12% hindus till 1971 war and now has 8% .

Currently there are more hindus who live in pakistani punjab than sikhs ,though there were more sikhs in punjab than Hindus at those places before partition.


I honestly think there is a lot of guilt among the Punjabi muslim ,sikh and lesser extent Hindus about the gruesome incidents of 1947 when they tore each other like wild animals and fed it their anger. The extra bonhomie is something to do with the desire to cast away the past sins and restore their self image in eyes of the other aggrieved party. Otherwise both knows well that they aren't coming as one nation again ever in future.

 

[Rafi]

Well considering all internet warriors, the welcome and hospitality a Jatt like me received in East Punjab was very encouraging, many offers of friendship and alliance,

 

[mayankmatador]

very strange thread from a man coming from land of punjab,,
my answer:-

India is my country. All Indians are my brothers and sisters. I love my country and I am proud of its rich and varied heritage. I shall always strive to be worthy of it.
I shall give respect to my parents, teachers and elders and treat everyone with courtesy.
To my country and my people, I pledge my devotion.In their well being and prosperity alone, lies my happiness.


this is the pledge we took in our schools and going by this we are common..
we are democratic that's common
we are secular that's common
we play holi,celbrate diwali,dance in lohri,eat siwayian in id thats common
in a thread i astonished to find that most of pakistanis give preference to their religion more than their country,so could u have adjusted to that situation

btw i also went to amritsar few years back went to golden temple(being different),jalian wala bagh(do gali angrejo ko di)(being nothing to do with),finally went to wagha to watch that awesome,chest swelling,retreat ceremony
more than 2 thousands indians and around 200 pakistani's
there were only two voice audible 1- tap of the boots and 2-"Bharat mata ki jai"(This what we have in common)

to my friend raavan
with regards

 

[Guest01]

Well considering all internet warriors, the welcome and hospitality a Jatt like me received in East Punjab was very encouraging, many offers of friendship and alliance,

And what then were your thoughts about the sikhs that are paying jiziya in Pakistan or for that matter about the blasphemy law of your constitution?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Thou a bit off topic but my grand father used to tell me story of one of his freind that when the balwaee's in lahore were breaking their doors daarji(as he used to call him) had no other choice but to kill his daughter in order to save her from those animals ,that when he used his sword to cut if her neck her thick choti or "guth" came in between the blade &her neck & that she remooved her guth & asked her dad again & this time he was sucsses ful & this was not a isolated event .

It happened on both sides my brother.... people became worse than animals!

 

[livingdead]

This "I am an emotional punjabi, please hear me out" thread still running?

 

[Airboss786]

I am a Punjabi ( hindu/sikh) . I belong to a small town near Amritsar.Last year, I had the opportunity of going to Wagah Border to see the Flag ceremony. The land and people on the either side of the fence were no different.I could not help but wonder why did punjab( Indian) choose to be a part of India rather than Pakistan or Viceversa for Pakistan punjab....Punjab has its own unique culture which is very similar on either side of the fence to the best of my knowledge.

What I do not understand is why a state like Punjab has to be paired up with other places like tamil naidu or assam.I do not speak tamil,do not understand their culture and probably will never go there since we are 2000kms apart from each other.I do respect all the cultures and I think everyone should be proud of their identity.But I find it extremely weird that on one hand punjab is clubbed with Assam which is culturally so different and on the other hand a place which is 90% similar and only 50 miles away i m not allowed to visit.

It is not even a question of religious tolerance as before partition muslim,hindus and sikhs used to live together and still do in India. Even right now there is a town 10 kms away from my place where every sign post or advertisement board is written in urdu...and we live happily together( i cannot read urdu). the elders in my village elders(really old guns) always share their fond memories of pre partition days,Lahore features unequivocally in almost all of these conversations i must say. will visit lahore for sure one day.have to see what is all the hype about.after all its not made of gold.is it.lol

Two years I had to come to canada due to obvious reasons.I met so many people from Punjab(pakistan) and we get along so well.Lahoris are not very fond of Karachiites i learnt.lol

When u think about it India was most prosperous before it was India.............

I would have to agree I am a Pakistani Punjabi and after interacting with Indian Punjabi's I feel we have a lot of similarities.
i.e. Cultural, Cuisine, Language & etc.etc.

But after visiting & interacting with S. India/S. Indians. I strongly feel I have 'Absolutely NO Commonality', be it cuisine, culture & most of all language & lingua franca (Hindi/Urdu, I have to revert to English Vernacular).

Furthermore, racially I feel more similarity with a Indian Punjabi(Sikh & Hindu). But 'Absolutely Nothing' with a S.Indian.

 

[KS]

But after visiting & interacting with S. India/S. Indians. I strongly feel I have 'Absolutely NO Commonality', be it cuisine, culture & most of all language & lingua franca (Hindi/Urdu, I have to revert to English Vernacular).

Furthermore, racially I feel more similarity with a Indian Punjabi(Sikh & Hindu). But 'Absolutely Nothing' with a S.Indian.

True. I can feel the same for Pakistanis. The degree of commonality I (South Indian) have with a Pakistani is the same I have with an Estonian. No offence.

This "I am an emotional punjabi, please hear me out" thread still running?

EPIC

 

[Vinod2070]

Do the Pakistani Punjabis share anything racially or civilization wise with the Afghans of NWFP and FATA?

We have a lot in common, especially a shared civilization for thousands of years.

Despite all the cultural differences, millions of Indians are now living in places different from their native areas. Millions of South Indians in Delhi, Mumbai and other cities, millions of North Indians in the thriving South Indian cities and so on.

There is complete physical integration achieved as well now. People have much more knowledge of each other.

There is no going back.

We can be friends with people from any country, especially neighboring countries that even use our languages rather than their own provincial languages as their national language.

 

[Airboss786]

Default Re: The curious case of Indian Punjabis

But after visiting & interacting with S. India/S. Indians. I strongly feel I have 'Absolutely NO Commonality', be it cuisine, culture & most of all language & lingua franca (Hindi/Urdu, I have to revert to English Vernacular).

Furthermore, racially I feel more similarity with a Indian Punjabi(Sikh & Hindu). But 'Absolutely Nothing' with a S.Indian.
Original Post By Airboss786
True. I can feel the same for Pakistanis. The degree of commonality I (South Indian) have with a Pakistani is the same I have with an Estonian. No offence.

None Taken!!!!

But I do feel a similarity with an Estonian & Indian Punjabi's, as for this matter, cuz both 'DO NOT SHAKE THEIR HEADS' when they talk!!!!!Oh BTW, NO Offense!!!!!LOL

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

in terms of temperment though, i'd almost want to say i 'get along' better with south indians.....for some reason

they tend to be more soft-spoken, not very argumentative or overly-emotional types.....but i have little exposure, save for what i observe and interact in learning/social environment

i think as far as Punjabis are concerned, they are very proud of their language......the language aspect probably plays a big role to explain what my friend Airboss has said.

 

[KS]

they tend to be more soft-spoken, not very argumentative or overly-emotional types.....but i have little exposure, save for what i observe and interact in learning/social environment

Soft-spoken aka diplomatic - check.

Not very argumentative - depends on the context

Not very emotional - some what yeah..again depends on context.

But all these can evaporate if someone speaks ill of our state/language or culture. Especially language.

 

[GURU DUTT]

LoL, you are right. Everybody starts like that. Trust me. When you meet a Pakistani for the first time, they will always talk of these things (I am talking about the average Joe). First comes the dick measuring contest, then come the women, then come the cribbing and then comes the bitching of their own nations and then the realization that by the end there is really not such a big difference.

I can quote something interesting. Of course it is individual and hence can have no bearing on anything that matters. It is just a personal experience and should be taken that way. I met a Pathan in Dubai. We were in a restaurant. We started discussing Biryani. I said that Hyderabadi Biryani is the best. He agreed. Then he realize that I am talking about Indian Hyderabad. So then we discussed biryani flaws for some time. Then he asked me how often do I eat Hyderabadi Biryani. I told him that it is a 2:45 hrs flight from Delhi so really not that often, but I go to Paradise or one of the Hyderabad houses when I can. He was totally surprised to know that the flight from Delhi to Hyderabad is almost the same as the one from Islamabad to Dubai. Then came the discussion about the partition. I mentioned how Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan (Frontier Gandhi) had opposed it. He was immediately proud that he shares the lineage because Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan was also a Pathan. Then he wanted to know more about India. He asked me all kind of questions about north Indians and South Indians and Marathis and all that. He asked me about kind of roads and all that. It was fun later.

Like I said, this is just one odd experience, may be this does not reflect anything. Just an anecdote. But the point I was trying to make was that due to the natural pre-concieved animosity, the initial reactions (initial period is again relative ), could be different and there could be difference between the appetizer and by the time you arrive at the pudding. It could turn out quite sweet actually .

But then things cannot be just generalized on that base. But if you would have read what Nawaz said last month, it was totally different from the standard regular Pakistani discourse about the situation and existence and the origin of the two nations.

Right now the origin is relatively recent in the memory. Over time generations will have other important things to consider. UK and US were enemies someday, remember?

Your family experience needs to be respected. The difficulties that our elders faced in those traumatic times actually should make us more humble and resolute and treasure the result of their hard work = our country. Maybe someday the commercial relationship will vindicate the pain that your elders went through.

Sir ,

Yesterday i couldnt tell you my feelings properly as i was a bit emotional ,Npw sir its good to be optimistick about indo - pak freindship but sir if you talk about "the average Joe" then sir you are in for a not so good surprise , the average Joe in pakistan respects & supports only that person who spews most hatred towards india....eg.
#1 : recently when Nawaz Shareef tried to be freindly with India most of the media exept a few people like (najam sethi ,hassan nisar ,ect) went crazy against him .
#2 : when Zardaree was recently cornered & some high profile General when he was in question after May 2nd incedent inboth cases they raised Kashmeer Issue & talked about a imaginary war & suddenly all the media & publick forgot those issues & a heysteria against india was created so much so one gentle man even went ahed and said that whatever wrong is happening in pakistan its because of a secret Indian Game ....So sir in short The best policy in my view to handle pakistan is what NDA govt applied after Parliament Attack ,Thanks & kindly do answer , Thanks Again .

 

[Moorkh]

No , not at all. in all probability it did to some extent. But India probably also does it as well. The point is should innocent citizens on both side be held hostage to what establishment of either countries are doing or have done for the past 60 years. one hand we blame our leaders to be corrupt,criminals etc and on the other we expect them to take decisions keeping ordinary people's best interests at heart....that does not quite connect.... establishments will obviosly take decisions keepin their own short sighted goals (in many cases personal) in mind


---------- Post added at 01:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:22 PM ----------



I would too my friend....but that does not apply to all the pakistani punjabies

The point is that the establishment has the support of the people. had they really been against the actions of the establishment, the establishment would have had a hell of a time staying in place. Other politicians would have been elected and the military rulers working against the wishes of the people wont have lasted as long as they did.