The Criminal Law (Amendment) Bill, 2012

[janon]

USA is very far sir, let us talk about India.

You are the one who earlier talked about my "place of residence". Now when I talk about it, suddenly it is very far?

Anyway, the point is this - government regulation of substances has been tried before, and has only increased crime rate - not decreased it.

And there are lots of people who drink alcohol regularly, including some of the most prolific posters here on PDF, who haven't gone and raped women. Those are straw man arguments, whipping boys, scapegoats that substitute for deeper analysis of our society.

 

[Screambowl]

You are the one who earlier talked about my "place of residence". Now when I talk about it, suddenly it is very far?

Anyway, the point is this - government regulation of substances has been tried before, and has only increased crime rate - not decreased it.

And there are lots of people who drink alcohol regularly, including some of the most prolific posters here on PDF, who haven't gone and raped women. Those are straw man arguments, whipping boys, scapegoats that substitute for deeper analysis of our society.

over all alcohol has been criticized and has been related to crime. Be it USA or India but in India you will see people being more frustrated than in USA after being drunk. I have also noted that in Germany, people laughing but in India it is in majority cases opposite.

In India regulating it has not been tried. In my state they are thinking to regulate it because it has destroyed people and made them to divert more towards criminal mind set rather productive. When you speak about rights of human, then people must not forget that they also have a duty to perform. People in India do not have limit when they consume so regulating the selling would be better.

And I am sure it can reduce crime in India!

 

[Iggy]

USA is very far sir, let us talk about India. and I did not say about Banning I said Regulating

Regulating wont help mate.. They will get bottles one way or another.. It will be helpful only to the black marketers..

 

[Screambowl]

Regulating wont help mate.. They will get bottles one way or another.. It will be helpful only to the black marketers..

there is no harm in trying. may be it might work. Finally Government can do a lot if really wants.
People used to say same about tobacco and all but Modi has showed so in uttarakhand. trying doesn't make you pay lives.

 

[janon]

over all alcohol has been criticized and has been related to crime. Be it USA or India but in India you will see people being more frustrated than in USA after being drunk. I have also noted that in Germany, people laughing but in India it is in majority cases opposite.

In India regulating it has not been tried. In my state they are thinking to regulate it because it has destroyed people and made them to divert more towards criminal mind set rather productive. When you speak about rights of human, then people must not forget that they also have a duty to perform. People in India do not have limit when they consume so regulating the selling would be better.

If they don't have any limit in consuming, then all the more better from the point of view of preventing rape. The more drunken a man is, the less likely he would be able to get an erection and the less likely he would be able to commit rape. That is a scientific fact. Men lose their urges and their sexual performance under the influence of alcohol.

I didn't really understand your first paragraph, so In won't comment on it. But understand this - the reason for so many sexual assaults in India is because of our people's mindset and complete disregard for human rights. Not because of alcohol or water or any other chemical. It is always a temptation to seek out these simple answers to difficult questions - while completely ignoring the real answers and the real problems that plague our society and our people.

We need a complete overhaul of our thinking and our mentality - and simplistic solutions like "no alcohol, no rape" is just not going to cut it.

 

[Screambowl]

If they don't have any limit in consuming, then all the more better from the point of view of preventing rape. The more drunken a man is, the less likely he would be able to get an erection and the less likely he would be able to commit rape. That is a scientific fact. Men lose their urges and their sexual performance under the influence of alcohol.

I didn't really understand your first paragraph, so In won't comment on it. But understand this - the reason for so many sexual assaults in India is because of our people's mindset and complete disregard for human rights. Not because of alcohol or water or any other chemical. It is always a temptation to seek out these simple answers to difficult questions - while completely ignoring the real answers and the real problems that plague our society and our people.

We need a complete overhaul of our thinking and our mentality - and simplistic solutions like "no alcohol, no rape" is just not going to cut it.

the last bold italic part is what I am trying to clarify that mentality of people in India is not same as in USA and little or more consumption of alcohol or any other drug calls out the frustration in lower middle class people or those living in a slum or arrogant son's of politicians, or business men in a violent way. Jessica lal murder case was an exception.

Secondly I am not only talking about rape.

Lastly, I would like to know the quantity which does not affect the muscular activity but changes the thinking power after consuming alcohol. If there exists any such limit, then can surely take that under consideration.

 

[janon]

the last bold italic part is what I am trying to clarify that mentality of people in India is not same as in USA and little or more consumption of alcohol or any other drug calls out the frustration in lower middle class people or those living in a slum or arrogant son's of politicians, or business men in a violent way. Jessica lal murder case was an exception.

Secondly I am not only talking about rape.

And neither am I. Rape, or sexual assault, or other crimes of a sexual nature - where do you think these are more prevalent? In countries that have government regulations of substances, or countries that don't?

Kerala state has complete regulation of alcohol - only the government outlets can sell them. Which place is safer for women, kerala or Netherlands, where there is no such regulation? Ask any members from kerala.

Many states in India have government regulation - in fact, more states have govt regulation of alcohol than those that don't - making your earlier statement that it hasn't been tried a "lie".

HAs that decreased crimes against women? Has that done anything other than taking away people's rights and placing it in the hands of the government?

People in our country have this odd habit of believing that if government controls people's behavior, all will be rosy and peachy - as if governments know any better than individuals, in things like this.

 

[Screambowl]

And neither am I. Rape, or sexual assault, or other crimes of a sexual nature - where do you think these are more prevalent? In countries that have government regulations of substances, or countries that don't?

Kerala state has complete regulation of alcohol - only the government outlets can sell them. Which place is safer for women, kerala or Netherlands, where there is no such regulation? Ask any members from kerala.

Many states in India have government regulation - in fact, more states have govt regulation of alcohol than those that don't - making your earlier statement that it hasn't been tried a "lie".

HAs that decreased crimes against women? Has that done anything other than taking away people's rights and placing it in the hands of the government?

People in our country have this odd habit of believing that if government controls people's behavior, all will be rosy and peachy - as if governments know any better than individuals, in things like this.

to the bold part, I told you there is mentality difference so you said but alcohol works as an oxidizer for crime to happen in India. Once the mentality is changed then you can even gift 10 bottles or do what ever. But the mentality is not the same buddy. And crime rate in Kerela is too less compared to other states

Not just rape nor sexual assault but many other crimes and brutal crimes. Alcohol in India only and only contributes to crime and misbehavior unlike in your USA or netherland.

It has not been tried with sincerity. There has to be research first with satisfactory outcome how much quantity can make an already frustrated man violent and on that basis it should be regulated.

 

[Screambowl]

@janon
http://aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/proceedings/01/giddings.pdf

here In the case of dishonesty offences, the role of alcohol is usually to encourage a
person to act in an impulsive 'spur of the moment' manner. Such cases might
involve theft of some small item at a party or a hotel.

and this leads to further crimes.

 

[Gora]

I would suggest fellow forumers read up on the law relating to rape and how has the government reacted in each situation , it has always been reactive, the legislative conscience has never been prickled, this fake show of solidarity by our politicians is just disgusting. e.g
The Supreme Court has laid down the following guidelines for the trial of rape cases (Delhi Domestic Working Womens Forum Vs. UOI (1995) 1 SCC 14)

1.The complaints of sexual assault cases should be provided with legal representation. Such a person should be well acquainted. The Advocates role should not merely be of explaining to the victim the nature of the proceedings, to prepare for the case and assist her, but to provide her with guidance as to how she might obtain help of a different nature from other agencies- for e.g. psychiatric consultation or medical assistance.

2. Legal assistance should be provided at the police Station, since the victim may be in a distressed state. Guidance and support of a lawyer at this stage would be of great help.

3. The police should be under a duty to inform the victim of her right to a counsel before being interrogated.

4. A list of lawyers willing to act in these cases should be kept at the police station.

5. Advocates shall be appointed by the Court on an application by the police at the earliest, but in order that the victim is not questioned without one, the Advocate shall be authorized to act at the police Station before leave of the Court is sought or obtained.

6. In all rape trials, anonymity of the victim must be maintained

7. It is necessary to setup Criminal Injuries Compensation Board with regard to the Directive Principles contained under Article. 38(1) of the Constitution of India. As some victims also incur Substantial losses.

8. Compensation for the victims shall be awarded by the Court on the conviction of the offender and by the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board- whether or not a conviction has taken place. The Board will take into account pain, suffering, shock as well as loss of earnings due to pregnancy and child birth if this accrued as a result of rape.

The National Commission for Women be asked to frame schemes for compensation and rehabilitation to ensure justice to the victims of such crimes.

As observed by Justice Saghir Ahmad, "Unfortunately a woman in our country belongs to a class or group of society who are in an disadvantaged position on account of several social barriers and impediments and have therefore, been victims of tyranny at the hands of men with whom they, unfortunately, under the Constitution enjoy equal status."

Unfortunately none of the guidelines, has any legislative backing which means these guidelines though enumerated by the SC, has value only in the courts, which without legislative reforms is deemed to be lame duck or is of very little practical use.

Look at the date of the guidelines issued...and now they are actually talking of consolidating all the guidelines and judicial pronouncements into a consolidating act relating to sexual assault