The collapse of the myth of German tanks series of "Leopard-2", as the best tank of the world

[Penguin]

View attachment 370278

All that remains of the much vaunted German "cat"

Yes, any tank can be destroyed. What is your point?

The turret appear intact for the most part. But do note the turret-rear ammo area: the blow-off panel is gone > ammunition detonation occurred. What is also interesting here is the hull: the entire left-forward corner is simply gone.T his is the corner where the hull-storage for ammunition is located. In short, the image suggests detonation of the forward ammo storage. Question is how that happened: did this vehicle suffer ATGW penetration in the left forward hull corner (if so, then how did the turret storage also blow?), or is this a captured vehicle that was subsequently blown up, or was the vehicle somehow set on fire and did the ammunition cook-off eventually?

The fact that both ammo storage areas detonated suggests destruction in the turret occurred first, and the turret was subsequently blown off by the hull detonation. Which IMHO lends credence to a scenario of fire and ammunition cook-off. Question then is 'what caused the fire?'. Actual combat damage or deliberate post-combat arson

The second Leo2 in the picture is also turretless, the turret lies a bit farther away and to the right of the vehicle. What are the odds of a similar detonation of hull munition storage in combat? IMHO, further indication of post-combat explosion, possibly deliberate blown up of incapacitated/captured equipment before retreating or moving on.

So, without the actual story with the picture, the picture itself raises more questions than it provices answers?

 

[Glavcom]

Yes, any tank can be destroyed. What is your point?

My position is simple and very understandable. My position is as follows:

I stand for justice. I oppose the advertising of artificial myth that Germans created their tanks Leopard-2 series, "the best and invincible in the world of tanks" and superior to all other tanks in terms of peace - reliability, protection and firepower.

And this despite the fact that these tanks (Leopard-2) has not fought for real, that is, on an equal footing - the tank against tank, as in the Russian-Ukrainian war, a life-and-death, locked in stranglehold, Ukrainian tankmen with tanks T-64 against Russian tankmen against the tanks T-72 and T-90A.

 

[Penguin]

View attachment 370412

My position is simple and very understandable. My position is as follows:

I stand for justice. I oppose the advertising of artificial myth that Germans created their tanks Leopard-2 series, "the best and invincible in the world of tanks" and superior to all other tanks in terms of peace - reliability, protection and firepower.

And this despite the fact that these tanks (Leopard-2) has not fought for real, that is, on an equal footing - the tank against tank, as in the Russian-Ukrainian war, a life-and-death, locked in stranglehold, Ukrainian tankmen with tanks T-64 against Russian tankmen against the tanks T-72 and T-90A.

Please show where the Germans have actually used those terms to market their Leo-2s. Or how it would be not true. Or how that is in any way different from how other tank producers market their vehicles (including Ukrainian producers) Besides, they can very well be correct and still have a tank that can be destroyed. It's just flawed logic.

I don't know why you have a personal beef with Leo 2, but you do. You can't blame Leopard 2 producers or users for their political leadership being smart enough to keep their troops out of real or equal combat (that's actually a good thing!). Your T-84s rate similarly if I'm not mistaken.

What you show, with pictures, doesn't actually deflate the alledged myth, for it does not (by your own admission) involve tank to tank combat (but even if it did, someone here would be wining that the other tank was a downrated old model T-72 or something. See M1 Abrams). So, you're not even being consistent in what you say and do.

Leopard 2 was, is and in its newest versions remains a superior tank. As do e.g. Merkava IV and latest model Abrams.

 

[Glavcom]

Leopard 2 was, is and in its newest versions remains a superior tank.

Where do you see the superiority of the tank Leorard-2 on stout and reliable as a Swiss bank Ukrainian tanks T-80UD ? Best optics? Yes. But the best optics will not save Leopard-2A7+ before a deadly bite of the T-80UD.

 

[Penguin]

View attachment 370423

Where do you see the superiority of the tank Leorard-2 on stout and reliable as a Swiss bank Ukrainian tanks T-80UD ? Best optics? Yes. But the best optics will not save Leopard-2A7+ before a deadly bite of the T-80UD.

You're still barking up the wrong tree. Your pictures illustrate nothing without the accompanying story of what happened. Without context, these images are meaningless. You dislike of Leo2 is pathetic. I'll humor you nonetheless: Ukraine is the only country in the world that produces world class tanks, the rest of us produce untested crap.

G'day.

 

[Penguin]

In parallel with the Russian T-80U, the Morozov Bureau in Ukraine developed a diesel-powered version, the T-80UD. About 500 T-80UD tanks were built in the Malyshev plant between 1987 and 1991. About 300 were still at the Ukrainian factory when the Soviet Union broke up, so the T-80UD tank was welcomed into Ukrainian Military service, and therefore is more common in Ukrainian service than Russian. A further improvement of the T-80UD is the Ukrainian T-84 main battle tank. The T-84U (1999) shows many refinements. Unlike Russia, Ukraine has had much better success selling T-80s (but not T-84s) to foreign customers. The T-84 and Ukraine's older T-80s will be Ukraine's main battle tank well into the 21st century. Ukraine had 345 T-80 in service in 1995, 273 in 2000, and 271 in 2005. The Ukrainian Ground Forces has 10 T-84 Oplot in service

I suggest you google "T-80"+destroyed as well as "Leopard 2"+destroyed and compare the number of hits and pictures found. Remember how well T-80s did in Grozny.

 

[Glavcom]

I suggest you google "T-80"+destroyed as well as "Leopard 2"+destroyed and compare the number of hits and pictures found. Remember how well T-80s did in Grozny.

Excuse me, but you live in what country?

 

[Penguin]

Excuse me, but you live in what country?

Antarctica, clearly. What does that have to do with anything?

 

[Glavcom]

In parallel with the Russian T-80U, the Morozov Bureau in Ukraine developed a diesel-powered version, the T-80UD. About 500 T-80UD tanks were built in the Malyshev plant between 1987 and 1991. About 300 were still at the Ukrainian factory when the Soviet Union broke up, so the T-80UD tank was welcomed into Ukrainian Military service, and therefore is more common in Ukrainian service than Russian. A further improvement of the T-80UD is the Ukrainian T-84 main battle tank. The T-84U (1999) shows many refinements. Unlike Russia, Ukraine has had much better success selling T-80s (but not T-84s) to foreign customers. The T-84 and Ukraine's older T-80s will be Ukraine's main battle tank well into the 21st century. Ukraine had 345 T-80 in service in 1995, 273 in 2000, and 271 in 2005. The Ukrainian Ground Forces has 10 T-84 Oplot in service

In 1991 Ukraine was armed with 6,000 tanks, six models - the T-55, T-62, T-72, T-64, T-80BV / 80U and T-80UD

 

[Penguin]

In 1991 Ukraine was armed with 6,000 tanks, six models - the T-55, T-62, T-72, T-64, T-80BV / 80U and T-80UD

So, I wasn't discussing those other types, and neither were you! What's the point?

How many of those where Ukrainian built T-80 (of whatever type)?

 

[Glavcom]

Antarctica, clearly. What does that have to do with anything?

Why are you so aggressive attitude? German?

 

[Penguin]

Why are you so aggressive attitude? German?

Who's being aggressive? See post #47

 

[Glavcom]

suggest you google "T-80"+destroyed as well as "Leopard 2"+destroyed and compare the number of hits and pictures found. Remember how well T-80s did in Grozny.

The storming of Grozny participated turbine T-80 early series, and from this great loss.

Who's being aggressive? See post #47

sorry.

 

[Penguin]

The storming of Grozny participated turbine T-80 early series, and from this great loss.

All types sent into battle in Grozny unsupported and with poorly trained crews did badly. Not what they were intended for. Same can easily happen with inexperienced Turkish crews. GTu-power or diesel-power makes no difference in this equation.

 

[Penguin]

View attachment 370278

All that remains of the much vaunted German "cat"

Aren't these the same pair of tanks from page 1 and page 2? Just later, after deliberate demolition?