The clock is ticking for USA....

[chauism]

I find it amusing that people continue to say this even though I have yet to find any American members said it was......Why do you people persist? Is it because the US is successful and protective of the right to profit, despite the fact that profiteering predate the US, that you feel compelled to point this out to minimize this accomplishment? If it is so easy to institutionalize that protection then why not the Chinese have done it? Where from this tendency to take from others the benefits of their labors and why the need to defend that seizure by the Chinese and European members here? Is that stereotyping too uncomfortable? Americans are 'burger munching idiots' yet it is America that managed to be more successful at capitalism than Chinese 'noodle slurping geniuses' despite the fact that China has been around much longer than the US.

They say "Imitation is the sincerest of flattery" after 80 years as complete and utter failure, China and Russia gave up, surrendered to the US economic system of capitalism, and with 80 years of pent up demand from an economic system that was a dismal failure, they are crowing about how well they are doing. Now the USA has moved on from the Industrial age, to a to a structure of society based on the provision of information, innovation, finance, and services leaving the Chinese and Russian to dig the ditchs and wash the dishs.

So in his word, US has the proprietary of capitalism. Otherwise, it should just be just "surrendered to capitalism" or "western capitalism" if you want to be specific. Also one thing puzzles me is that neither Russia nor China followed exactly the US economic system.

 

[gambit]

So in his word, US has the proprietary of capitalism. Otherwise, it should just be just "surrendered to capitalism" or "western capitalism" if you want to be specific. Also one thing puzzles me is that neither Russia nor China followed exactly the US economic system.

The 'system' is not the same as 'inventing' capitalism as enough have been charged at US. What the 'system' does is to protect people, their property, their exploitation of that property, and any benefits derived. In that, the 'American system' of capitalism, run by 'burger munching idiots' and not 'noodle slurping geniuses', succeeded enormously. So successful that 'noodle slurping geniuses' or 'vodka swilling savants' decided to study our system and see what fit to their societies. Some of them like the idea of enjoying the fruits of their labor and the protection thereof so much that they forsook their homes, emigrated to the US and added themselves to our group of 'burger munching idiots'.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

You have to wonder if all Chinese are rude, crude, nit pickers or just the ones we have on here.

I don't think that this racist post deserves a response.

 

[CardSharp]

You have to wonder if all Chinese are rude, crude, nit pickers or just the ones we have on here.

We have been neither rude or crude and "nit picking" is part of debate. If you are looking for people to agree with there are plenty of partisan blogs/forums out there but if you are looking for debate from varied perspectives you are welcome to stay and contribute meaningfully.

 

[Chinaownseverything]

The 'system' is not the same as 'inventing' capitalism as enough have been charged at US. What the 'system' does is to protect people, their property, their exploitation of that property, and any benefits derived. In that, the 'American system' of capitalism, run by 'burger munching idiots' and not 'noodle slurping geniuses', succeeded enormously. So successful that 'noodle slurping geniuses' or 'vodka swilling savants' decided to study our system and see what fit to their societies. Some of them like the idea of enjoying the fruits of their labor and the protection thereof so much that they forsook their homes, emigrated to the US and added themselves to our group of 'burger munching idiots'.

Umm, no China's government and economical systems were all taken straight from Singapore/Taiwan/Hong Kong. (All 4 of these governments have been accused of being currency manipulators this is possible due to dual currency system)

All of these countries practice state capitalism and NO WAY IN HELL does it have any semblance to a free market the type that the USA uses.

China mostly passed economic reforms after seeing the success of the other state capitalists.

 

[gambit]

Umm, no China's government and economical systems were all taken straight from Singapore/Taiwan/Hong Kong. (All 4 of these governments have been accused of being currency manipulators this is possible due to dual currency system)

All of these countries practice state capitalism and NO WAY IN HELL does it have any semblance to a free market the type that the USA uses.

China mostly passed economic reforms after seeing the success of the other state capitalists.

This is where you are understandably wrong. Let us take a look at the black market for now. What is it?

Black market - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The black market (sometimes known as underground or black economy) is trade, goods and services that are not part of the official economy of a country; this may be legal activities where taxes are not paid, or illegal activities, such as drug dealing and prostitution.

Basically...The idea of making a profit, meaning getting paid more than what it cost you to acquire and/or produce whatever it is, is all around us, be it in the legal economy or the illegal one.

The difference between the two are the institutions that sanctions and protects one but not the other. To sanctions and protects the legal economy, the one that allow people to create excess and enjoys those excess, we need institutions such as the Chamber of Commerce, patent laws, trade groups, etc...etc...It does not matter if those institutions are independent of state controls or free wheeling. What matter is that they must exist in order for capitalism to function. I do not care if China has a different name for 'Chamber of Commerce' but this institution, be it at the national level like the US Chamber of Commerce or at the town level, must exists to give small businesses a place to focus their interests and promote capitalism at whatever level they are. The government may control this office but it does not negate the fact that the office exists. If you examine the Chinese institutions that sanctions and protects Chinese businesses, large and small, you will find many similarities with their US equivalents. This is what 'the system' really is.

But your objections and insistence that there is 'capitalism with a Chinese' twist are understandable. After all, every pupil must go through a phase where he must do whatever he can to assert his independence from the teacher.

 

[below_freezing]

sorry, but the US's system is far different from ours because we have state owned companies willing to take a loss to provide affordable service.

for example, State Grid (8th largest company and largest electrical transmission company in the world as of 2010; it used to also control the generators until that business was spun off into another state owned corporation) provides free electricity to farmers and to do so it takes a 0.2% loss every year. despite this, it's still the biggest electrical company in the world. but don't think this is inefficiency; we are implementing the Smartgrid system and have invested more in it than the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Grid

"In the year of 2006, SGCC, in a project called "Power for All", ran electric lines to 545,000 previously unconnected households in rural areas, offering the occupants free power indefinitely. Families were able to buy their first refrigerators, televisions and radios, dishwashers, computers, washing machines, water boilers, heaters and air conditioning units. Farmers have stopped hauling water by installing automated irrigation systems. Over the 2007-2008 period, SGCC plans to spend $3 billion to do the same for 4.5 million of China's poorest people in 18 provinces."

State Grid first to set smart grid rules in China

Our state owned corporations in rail, telecom, electric, oil, chemicals and construction can take losses in order to give to comply with welfare policy, whether it be infrastructure, discounted/free things or services. There is no US corporation that will do the same; there are barely any state owned corporations in the US. Our system has nothing to do with that of the US. if we had the US system we'd end up like india or zimbabwe.

 

[mike05]

The 'system' is not the same as 'inventing' capitalism as enough have been charged at US. What the 'system' does is to protect people, their property, their exploitation of that property, and any benefits derived. In that, the 'American system' of capitalism, run by 'burger munching idiots' and not 'noodle slurping geniuses', succeeded enormously. So successful that 'noodle slurping geniuses' or 'vodka swilling savants' decided to study our system and see what fit to their societies. Some of them like the idea of enjoying the fruits of their labor and the protection thereof so much that they forsook their homes, emigrated to the US and added themselves to our group of 'burger munching idiots'.

It was so successful that it crashed the global economy, keep it up.

 

[gambit]

It was so successful that it crashed the global economy, keep it up.

So who forced you to deal with US? Keep it up.

 

[whocares]

So who forced you to deal with US? Keep it up.

gambit, the finance folks don't always understand what they're doing and i think they'll end up crashing the system irreparably some time.

criticism of financial markets is legit.

 

[mike05]

So who forced you to deal with US? Keep it up.

Lesson learnt, that's why the world is now focusing on China and India.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

Lesson learnt, that's why the world is now focusing on China and India.

"SUN WUKONG
And the poor get poorer
By Wu Zhong, China Editor

HONG KONG - China's wealth gap, which has been expanding tremendously in the 30 years since the country turned towards a capitalist-style economy, is showing little signs of diminishing even as growth slows.

The number of people worth more than 10 million yuan (US$1.4 million) is expected to jump to 320,000 this year from an estimated 300,000 as of the end of 2008, according to a survey by China Merchants Bank and multinational consultancy Bain & Company.

At the other end of the wealth scale, more than 40 million farmers survived on 1,196 yuan or less last year, government figures
show. Officials now admit that if the internationally used poverty threshold of US$1, or 6.83 yuan, per person per day is adopted, the size of China's poor population could exceed 100 million - that is, at least one out of 13 Chinese still live in poverty."
Asia Times Online :: China News, China Business News, Taiwan and Hong Kong News and Business.

Ever wonder why China employes 75,000 people to censor the internet if every thing is so great in China, they dont want word of strikes and unrest spreading. Only time will tell if China can exist as half Capitalist and half Communist.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

By Keith B. Richburg
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, June 11, 2010

BEIJING -- A series of labor strikes continued to spread Friday across parts of China, as newly emboldened workers pressed for higher wages and better conditions, posing a fresh challenge to the government and the country's only officially sanctioned union.

This Story
Worker unrest in China signals cheap labor may be thing of past
Chinese labor dispute hits Honda plants
In China, unrest spreads as more workers rally
In Zhangshan, in southeastern China, about 1,700 workers at a Honda Lock factory, which makes locks and keys for Honda Motors, staged an unusual march through the city streets Friday morning, according to media reports and labor activists. The workers walked off the job Wednesday, demanding more pay and the right to elect their own union representatives -- a direct affront to China's official union, the All-China Federation of Trade Unions.

Two other Honda plants in Guangdong province remain idle because of work stoppages.

Meanwhile, the unrest spread to China's other main industrial base in the Yangtze River Delta, when 2,000 workers at a Taiwanese computer parts plant walked off their jobs in Shanghai's Pudong district.

In China, unrest spreads as more workers rally

The west went thru this stage of development about 70 years ago, now it looks like its China's turn.

 

[mike05]

Ever wonder why China employes 75,000 people to censor the internet if every thing is so great in China, they dont want word of strikes and unrest spreading. Only time will tell if China can exist as half Capitalist and half Communist.

China's governing system is nowhere near perfect but given that it has a country of 1.3 Billion to manage its doing pretty well, needless to say sacrifices have been made by millions for it to reach the level its at today but unfortunately it is a necessary evil.

China's censors are aimed towards inflammatory talk aimed at the communist party, if they had wanted to quell the strikes they could have easily used military / policing to stop it. I believe the government is slowly letting market forces push up the salary prices. The workers at the plant asking for reasonable increase unlike other countries bearing in mind they do not get overtime pay and literally work 12 - 15 hour days 6 days a week.

Chinese government allowing workers to strike - Jun. 10, 2010

Capitalism is typically better for an economy because it basis its foundation on greed which humans excel in, but this also drives progress which is good for its civilization on whole. But it still has to be controlled by someone at the helm which can make good impartial decisions ensuring the country moves in the right direction which creates the capitalist/communist hybrid system adopted by China.

Maybe you can shed some opinions on this from a US point of view.
US presidents are usually backed by big companies to fund their election campaign, wouldn't this cause a conflict of interest as the companies would expect his party to make decisions to help their businesses which may not be in line with the publics interest? How would this compare with China's system?

 

[gambit]

Lesson learnt, that's why the world is now focusing on China and India.

China may grow old before it gets rich, new study warns - World - www.smh.com.au

Faced with a population ageing at an unprecedented rate, China has been warned it may grow old before it has a chance of reaching widespread prosperity.

So you are going take lessons on capitalism and rely on a country who is straining to learn about capitalism and yet will probably be too old to reach the level of prosperity the US have achieved for longer than that country's modern history. Keep it up.