The case against Hafiz Saeed

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Pakistan will not act against LeT/JuD even if India gives loads of CONCRETE proof. Reason:GoP does not want to act which truly reflects its seriousness in handling anti-India terror issues.For them and the pakistani army and the ISI, LeT/JuD is a charitable organization.

That is incorrect - I believe the main accused masterminds of the Mumbai attacks, Lakhvi and Shah, along with other collaborators, are still under arrest and being prosecuted. And most of the evidence India has provided relates to them.

 

[DILNAWAZ]

We are just reciprocating INDIAN hypocrises...any objection just cry louder. Whats the justification of 60 yrs of rape & injustice in KASHMIR...what about the UN decisions on that? And are we blind to not see why is INDIA building DAMS on our rivers & even RIVER KABUL. INDIA is no 'chum' of ours ....thats plain & simple, nor we are one , we never were. JUD is a big welfare organization, loved by many here

If LeT/JuD is a welfare organization then why the hell it is banned.

 

[ajpirzada]

If we are to rely on Pakistan and trust GoP to run an investigation, atleast give us a reason to believe that Pakistan is serious about investigation. Was the seriousness or rather lack of it not exposed when JuD, a banned organization was working along with PA in what can be easily converted into a fertile ground for future mercenaries? What addition has Pakistan made on the dossier provided by Inida? Atleast GoP has admitted to Kasab being a Pakistani, so what further investigation and findings have been unearthed in the 4 months since.

How can the seriousness be validated when LeT is operational even after 7 years of Ban and flourishing. Why does Saeed get arrested after every terror activity? Why does an open secret Like Saeed's involvement with LeT so difficult to substantiate?

seriousness??? we arrested all those whom u suspect. those who masterminded mumbai attacks are behind bars and are being prosecuted. how else can we show u our seriousness? under UN resolution we are not supposed to arrest JuD members. all we were told to do was to shut their operations, cease their bank accounts and other assets. we did all that. resolution didnt demand from us to not let these ppl ever do any charity work. and so far we havent heard any complaints from UN.
and this open secret is still a secret for us. we are still to find any evidence


Pak has no evidence to link JuD chief to Mumbai attacks: AG

Rezaul H Laskar
Islamabad, Jun 5 (PTI) Pakistan has no evidence linking the banned Jamaat-ud-Dawah chief Hafiz Mohd Saeed to the Mumbai terror attacks but was detained in the interest of "national security", a top legal official said today.

Saeed, linked to last year's Mumbai terror attacks, was set free on June 2 by the Lahore High Court, triggering an angry response from India which accused Pakistan of not being serious about fighting terror.

Attorney General Latif Khosa said that there was an "impression" in India and the world community that Saeed had a role in the Mumbai attacks but made it clear that Pakistan had no evidence linking him to the terrorist strikes.

Asked by Dawn News channel if there was any evidence linking Saeed to the Mumbai attacks, Khosa replied: "Not to my knowledge, not to my estimation and not to the government's estimation... India is wanting him, we say no, he is not involved and we (had to detain him) for national security and maintenance of public order." In reply to another question on why Saeed was detained when there was no evidence against him, Khosa said this was done because the UN Security Council had imposed restrictions on the JuD and its leaders through a resolution.

"I am not saying that they (JuD) were involved (in the Mumbai attacks)... This is what India is saying. I am not toeing India's line at all. We have our own perception," he added. PTI
Pak has no evidence to link JuD chief to Mumbai attacks: AG

 

[ajpirzada]

Pakistan will not act against LeT/JuD even if India gives loads of CONCRETE proof. Reason:GoP does not want to act which truly reflects its seriousness in handling anti-India terror issues.For them and the pakistani army and the ISI, LeT/JuD is a charitable organization.

y dont u first give it to us and then we will talk

 

[Skeptic]

Has India provided any evidence indicating Saeed's complicity in the Mumbai attacks, or is the desire to see him punished merely because of the links between JuD and LeT?

As I have posted elsewhere, AFAIK, the masterminds behind the Mumbai attacks were two LeT leaders, Lakhvi and Shah.

JuD is a front for LeT and is generating funds for the terror activities to be carried out. To root out terror, the money trail is extremely important. Saeed is alleged to be involved in recruiting and financing terrorists carrying out these attacks.

 

[Skeptic]

seriousness??? we arrested all those whom u suspect.

This is followed by an article saying that Saeed was not detained in relation to Mumbai attack. Does that not sound contradictory? Has any statement been issued that Lakhwi is arrested in relation with Mumbai attack or all these arrests were due to sudden increase in risk to Pakistan's safety.

 

[DILNAWAZ]

y dont u first give it to us and then we will talk

then what did India give to GoP...ticket for honeymoon??

 

[ajpirzada]

then what did India give to GoP...ticket for honeymoon??

we are talkin about hafiz saeed here. and there is not substantial evidence against him.
go read wat u gave to us.

 

[ajpirzada]

This is followed by an article saying that Saeed was not detained in relation to Mumbai attack. Does that not sound contradictory? Has any statement been issued that Lakhwi is arrested in relation with Mumbai attack or all these arrests were due to sudden increase in risk to Pakistan's safety.

again u never gave any substantial evidence linkin hafiz saed to mumbai attacks. so i am not surprised if he wasnt arrested for mumbai attacks. those against whom evidence was there are all behind bars.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

JuD is a front for LeT and is generating funds for the terror activities to be carried out. To root out terror, the money trail is extremely important. Saeed is alleged to be involved in recruiting and financing terrorists carrying out these attacks.

That may be so, but India's investigation has focused on the Mumbai attacks and those directly involved in it. I will admit that I have not seen all of the evidence India has provided, but from what I have read, there is nothing implicating the JuD or Saeed in the Mumbai attacks.

The connection has been made in the manner of a more general accusation of 'JuD is a front for LeT and funds it'.

As such, the only way to link the JuD with the Mumbai attacks would be to establish the transfer of resources from the JuD to the LeT for that purpose. And you probably realize that financial crimes and tracking the transfer of money is one of the hardest crimes to nail down - especially in South Asia where such large parts of the economy are unofficial, and Hundi and Hawala exist.

I don't think pinning the blame on the JuD and Saeed, especially in terms of the Mumbai attacks, is as easy as you guys are making it out to be.

 

[Screaming Skull]

Hi guys,

For once let us give the benefit of the doubt to Pakistan. We have no right to suspect any country's judiciary like this. Let us believe that the Pakistani judiciary was free and fair on this. They had their own problems between 2007-2009. But, now after the removal of Musharraf and the long march and all that, I think the Pak judiciary is back on track. Let us also remember that there is no room for emotions or public sentiments in a court of law. Everything is based on solid evidence. An experienced and shrewd lawyer can rip apart evidence and turn a case on its head if the case is not backed by solid proof. Remember what the maverick Ram Jethmalani did in the Indira Gandhi assasination case?

Coming to the other point that some Indian members made about the right charges not being pressed against Hafiz Saeed. Maybe this is true, maybe it isn't. But what was the Indian FO doing then? Eating Curry? Why didn't they raise this issue back then? Obviously they were aware of how things were moving to that regard. Why didn't they insist on perusing the chargsheet against Hafiz Saeed? IMO the IFO was fully aware of the proceedings and its outcome. Yet for some unknown reasons they just let the matter slip. I still find it hard to digest that all the blips on the part of the GoI were unintentional. Some thing fishy is going on and citizens of both countries are being taken for a ride.

So my suggestion to all the members would be to keep emotions and sentiments apart and think rationally. I also believe that we (meaning GoI) are spending far too much time on really trivial issues. We should rather concentrate on improving our homeland security. Channelize all the efforts and resources to strengthening internal security so that incidents such as Mumbai are never repeated. Think long term. The world is not going to end due to the release of one criminal in Pakistan.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

SS,

Thanks for that post, and for what it is worth, given the new Indian FM's statements on the Indo-Pak relationship, Pakistan needs to ensure that the perpetrators of the Mumbai attacks are prosecuted properly and thoroughly and hopefully punished.

I think the GoP should try and convince the GoI to get involved in the prosecution as an 'observer', if joint investigation is not an option. At least then the GoI can indicate whether or not it is satisfied with the case put together by the GoP against the perpetrators, regardless of what conclusions the judiciary arrives at.

 

[Screaming Skull]

SS,

Thanks for that post, and for what it is worth, given the new Indian FM's statements on the Indo-Pak relationship, Pakistan needs to ensure that the perpetrators of the Mumbai attacks are prosecuted properly and thoroughly and hopefully punished.

I think the GoP should try and convince the GoI to get involved in the prosecution as an 'observer', if joint investigation is not an option. At least then the GoI can indicate whether or not it is satisfied with the case put together by the GoP against the perpetrators, regardless of what conclusions the judiciary arrives at.

Hi AM,

Yes I do agree that the GoI has taken a very aggressive stand on this issue (though reluctantly and due to public pressure). I also believe that such a stand from the GoI will do more harm to both countries than good. Hopefully, better sense will prevail on both sides and hopefully both will cooperate with each other to punish the perpetrators of this heinous crime together. There can't be a bigger CBM than both countries working towards a common cause. Compassion is a virtue that only the bravest possess. I hope both these nations are brave enough!

 

[Skeptic]

Hi guys,

For once let us give the benefit of the doubt to Pakistan. We have no right to suspect any country's judiciary like this. Let us believe that the Pakistani judiciary was free and fair on this. They had their own problems between 2007-2009. But, now after the removal of Musharraf and the long march and all that, I think the Pak judiciary is back on track. Let us also remember that there is no room for emotions or public sentiments in a court of law. Everything is based on solid evidence. An experienced and shrewd lawyer can rip apart evidence and turn a case on its head if the case is not backed by solid proof. Remember what the maverick Ram Jethmalani did in the Indira Gandhi assasination case?

Coming to the other point that some Indian members made about the right charges not being pressed against Hafiz Saeed. Maybe this is true, maybe it isn't. But what was the Indian FO doing then? Eating Curry? Why didn't they raise this issue back then? Obviously they were aware of how things were moving to that regard. Why didn't they insist on perusing the chargsheet against Hafiz Saeed? IMO the IFO was fully aware of the proceedings and its outcome. Yet for some unknown reasons they just let the matter slip. I still find it hard to digest that all the blips on the part of the GoI were unintentional. Some thing fishy is going on and citizens of both countries are being taken for a ride.

So my suggestion to all the members would be to keep emotions and sentiments apart and think rationally. I also believe that we (meaning GoI) are spending far too much time on really trivial issues. We should rather concentrate on improving our homeland security. Channelize all the efforts and resources to strengthening internal security so that incidents such as Mumbai are never repeated. Think long term. The world is not going to end due to the release of one criminal in Pakistan.

I guess you are right, but this really has been disappointing. It seemed to me for once words were being backed up with actions in Pakistan and It'd have been a positive move to atlest keep him in detention till the investigation was on. JuD and LeT link is definitely there and I am not really convinced that the matter was contested properly, though sending Marathi statements was essentially a sign of lack of initiative from India. It is a bitter pill to swallow but one has to live with reality.

Although the case had nothing to do with Mumbai, I believe Saeed has a role in promoting and prospering LeT. I just hope things do get sorted out for better relations between the two countries, although friendship is a very distant possibility - a working relationship and reduction in hostility will be a good start..

 

[zombie]

again u never gave any substantial evidence linkin hafiz saed to mumbai attacks.

what do u mean by substantial evidence? give some that if provided would as per u constitue substantial evidence.