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The case against Hafiz Saeed

i will point out only one thing.
Dont think that india is always right.
India intentionally has delayed the evidence.
Intially after the bombay attacks.
than supplied all documents in hindi and marathi.
then there was DNA error.
the latest answer to Pak questions again in hindi and marathi, Pak has requested documents in english and are still waiting.
Wht do we make such silly mistakes. We are silly or it is intentional, u can make your and i will make my own conclusion.
 
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I agree with your post but this statement is not right. This exactly is what someone with a lack of spine tries to do.

Well, why else would India choose to do absolutely nothing?

Peace isn't an option its an imperative, given our history and complex regional disputes, the least we could do is assert ourselves in a manner that would discourage anyone from allowing their soil to be used in attacks against us. Once we're down to the point were peace prevails and we don't have to factor in any 'non-state actors' we will be able to make some real headway, said another way, we need to address the lingering issue of plausible deniability, once that happens, we will be able to successfully resolve all of our disputes.

Until that happens, if we need help then so be it, there's no shame in that, if we need to hire a specialist or two because there is a 20 year delay in our program then we need to do what needs to be done. I'd rather the issue be addressed sooner than later.

I'm just frustrated by India's inaction (perceived inaction of course), I'm not trying to sound like an a*s, I know the country still has a long way to go, but I feel like we could do more.

always open to a new and rational approach :D whatever it takes to float our boat!
 
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DAWN.COM | Columnists | Perception or pressure?

I DO not know what the response was to a question why the UN resolution on the detention of Hafiz Saeed should be honoured when New Delhi had not implemented the UN resolutions on Kashmir.

But I think the comparison was not in order as one resolution is related to an international issue and the other to an individual who was evading being brought to justice.

This did not appear to be the only reason why the case against Saeed was thrown out. The court said that there was not enough evidence against him. Even if it found the proof provided by New Delhi to be inadequate Islamabad should have done some homework to plug the loopholes.

The court was quite candid in telling the attorney general that it had seen the details of the investigation by India but wanted to know what Pakistan had done. Apparently, it had done very little. What was shown to the judges was not convincing enough. True, there is reportedly going to be an appeal to the Supreme Court. But if the same material is going to be produced before it, the verdict is unlikely to be different.

Pakistan may have a point that India has not given it any clinching evidence. And sending some material in Hindi, Marathi or Tamil does not say much for New Delhi’s seriousness on the matter. Yet Pakistan was expected to do more. After all, those who attacked Mumbai were from Pakistan where the attacks were plotted. What was Pakistan’s own investigation to add to the New Delhi’s dossier is not known.

In the absence of proof that Pakistan was committed to taking the issue seriously, any dialogue with it would evoke a strong anti-government opinion in India. At the risk of repeating myself, I feel that the Pakistan government and the armed forces have not yet realised how angry the Indians are. Even if New Delhi were to come around, it would not be able to carry the public along with it until Islamabad is seen to be doing something concrete.

With Pakistan’s action in the war against the terrorists, there was a perceptible change in India towards sympathising with the people across the border in their hour of crisis. Pressure had begun mounting for the resumption of talks with Islamabad. Saeed’s release by the court has pushed India back to square one.

Relations between India and Pakistan, already frozen, have become further so. The Zardari government is not seen as any different from the earlier ones. The impression that is strengthening is that Pakistan changes its tactics under pressure but not its strategy.

It may be a coincidence that the Council on Kashmir Affairs met in Islamabad on the day when Saeed was freed. But Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani did not stray from the speech prepared by the bureaucrats. Delivered after the judgment he could have said something to lessen the impact of the verdict. Was it necessary for him to reiterate that the Pakistan government would continue to give its moral, social and diplomatic support to the people of Jammu and Kashmir in their fight for self-determination?

India’s Foreign Minister S.M. Krishna was far more balanced in his reaction as he did not use harsh words which might have irritated Pakistan. Krishna said that Kashmir was part of the composite dialogue. He could have repeated that Kashmir was an integral part of India, but he did not lest he should spoil even the odd chance for reconciliation.

Those at the helm of affairs in Pakistan appear inept in handling the situation. Understandably, they are under pressure over the activities of the Taliban and the mechanisations of religious parties within the country. Still it looks as if the Zardari government has no clear-cut policy or programme to take Pakistan out of the difficulties it faces.

India has reportedly appealed to America after the verdict. Washington may be at a loss to think what to do next because it had already banned the Lashkar-i-Taiba and its front organisation, Jamaatud Dawa. The visit of Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to Delhi assumes more importance than before. The first thing Secretary Hillary Clinton has to do is to disabuse ideas that the Obama government is taking sides.

However successful Islamabad may have been in securing America’s largesse, the test is the confidence the Zardari government can build among the people to feel self-reliant and secure. It also has to plan to feed, educate and ameliorate the living conditions of millions in Pakistan.

The advantage of a democratic government is that it can depend on the support of the people. But if they remain unhappy they are bound to look elsewhere and even think of Islamic extremists as their saviours. In fact, this is the strength of the Taliban, not their weapons or the stamina to fight. The PPP is known for its liberalism. The army is engaged in a battle against the Taliban. But the party has also to work on the ground to re-educate people who have been fed on prejudices.

Saeed is going to be a problem because he is perceived as combining in himself the traits of terrorism and bigotry. His support to the Taliban would be lethal. This can tell upon Pakistan’s integrity and its democratic structure. Nawaz Sharif should not be kept at a distance. He may be a rightist but he has proved time and again that when it comes to fighting for Pakistan’s entity, he will not and cannot remain neutral. Zardari should seek his cooperation without putting prior conditions.

Maybe, the Charter of Democracy which Nawaz Sharif and the late Benazir Bhutto signed can provide the basis for cooperation. The Charter calls upon the people of Pakistan ‘to join hands to save our motherland from the clutches of military dictatorship and to defend their fundamental, social, political and economic rights and for a democratic, federal, modern and progressive Pakistan as dreamt by the founder of the nation….’

If Pakistan were to realise this, it would find India to be its best friend.

The writer is a leading journalist based in Delhi.
 
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i will point out only one thing.
Dont think that india is always right.
India intentionally has delayed the evidence.
Intially after the bombay attacks.
than supplied all documents in hindi and marathi.
then there was DNA error.
the latest answer to Pak questions again in hindi and marathi, Pak has requested documents in english and are still waiting.
Wht do we make such silly mistakes. We are silly or it is intentional, u can make your and i will make my own conclusion.

I dare say you have misread the situation. The detention and release had nothing to do with Mumbai attack and proof sent by India, It had everything to do with willingness of GoP to sustain detention and provide sufficient ground for continuing detention.
 
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Well if you really want to go down that lane, it just justifies the fear in minds of Indian diaspora. What kind of proof can India provide? It can not provide with registration papers of two organization nor can it lay down a comparative chart showing how many employees were common between LeT and JuD. It can not show that lease for the same compound was continued with after LeT was banned and the very next day JuD was running with same employees and same leaders. It can not show that monetary transaction and source of income for JuD. We don't have those resources and for the same Pakistan's assistance was required. India can tap into phones of JuD operatives and launch surveillance on their activities. India does not have access to its workers who can be grilled to expose their entire working. No Sir we can not provide those proof as these things are happening in Pakistan's territory.

India has passed over taped conversation of terrorist while they were involved in the activity. We have passed over confessional statement of Kasab stating the entire working of terror operations. What India has provided is circumstantial evidence and modus operendi. It is upto Pakistan to verify them and seal the case, which has not happened till now. The line of reasoning you are following is simply denying that any cross border infiltration is happening and no outfit in Pakistan is involved in such activities. This worked for Pakistan til 9/11 but after that under international pressure and domestic circumstances, Pakistan was bound to accept activities of organization like LeT and Ban them.

Iraqis never said that they have WMDs but here loads of Pakistanis are stating clearly that JuD is associated with LeT. You seem to be in a denial mode to pursue so strongly that JuD has nothing to do with LeT. Even Dawn editorial after the court's judgment seems to indicate otherwise. Here is a paragraph from same:



I am responding with a belief that this exchange is not just for the heck of it and you are not defending JuD as your patriotic duty and rather that you firmly believe that JuD is an absolutely clean organization. If it is just to support the official stand that GoP has taken, then there are enough of these debates happening all over the media. On forums such as these, we can speak out what we really believe in.

india can express her fears. pakistan in return has to press the charges and look for proof. my problem is that y you guys simply deny the possibility of no proof being found? y do u ppl take it for granted that wat u r tellin us is the only truth? y cant it be the other way round espacially when u urself have got no evidence which can prove him guilty in the court? i am not defending JuD here or for that matter any other organisation.
 
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But all of a sudden a new found impetus for a 'free and fair' judiciary materialized overnight when it came to Saeed. What a coincidence. I doubt many in India buy these justifications based on technicalities

not over night but after two years of street fighting. u need to read on pakistan judicial crisis (2007 to 2009).

Simply put, Pakistan could have easily arrested Saeed and thrown him in jail for the rest of his life and no one would really miss the guy. I don't think anyone seriously doubts that.

r u tellin us to do wat india wants us to do without any procedure? we are not pets bro. secondly there is already an issue of missin persons in pakistan. its not easy to do such a thing anymore and that also when this guy is in focus.
 
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Hafiz Saeed's release is no surprise for India... something that was expected.But I have one thing to say-Pakistan cannot win its war on terror unless it cracks down on local terrorist groups.Releasing terrorists like hafiz saeed will only embolden them and situation in Pakistan will become even more worse.
 
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Hafiz Saeed's release is no surprise for India... something that was expected.But I have one thing to say-Pakistan cannot win its war on terror unless it cracks down on local terrorist groups.Releasing terrorists like hafiz saeed will only embolden them and situation in Pakistan will become even more worse.

Obey my desires, you are alright, against my wishes, you are a TERRORIST. Cut this non-sense, we will live & act as per our own rules.:pakistan:
 
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india can express her fears. pakistan in return has to press the charges and look for proof. my problem is that y you guys simply deny the possibility of no proof being found? y do u ppl take it for granted that wat u r tellin us is the only truth? y cant it be the other way round espacially when u urself have got no evidence which can prove him guilty in the court? i am not defending JuD here or for that matter any other organisation.

If we are to rely on Pakistan and trust GoP to run an investigation, atleast give us a reason to believe that Pakistan is serious about investigation. Was the seriousness or rather lack of it not exposed when JuD, a banned organization was working along with PA in what can be easily converted into a fertile ground for future mercenaries? What addition has Pakistan made on the dossier provided by Inida? Atleast GoP has admitted to Kasab being a Pakistani, so what further investigation and findings have been unearthed in the 4 months since.

How can the seriousness be validated when LeT is operational even after 7 years of Ban and flourishing. Why does Saeed get arrested after every terror activity? Why does an open secret Like Saeed's involvement with LeT so difficult to substantiate?
 
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If we are to rely on Pakistan and trust GoP to run an investigation, atleast give us a reason to believe that Pakistan is serious about investigation. Was the seriousness or rather lack of it not exposed when JuD, a banned organization was working along with PA in what can be easily converted into a fertile ground for future mercenaries? What addition has Pakistan made on the dossier provided by Inida? Atleast GoP has admitted to Kasab being a Pakistani, so what further investigation and findings have been unearthed in the 4 months since.

How can the seriousness be validated when LeT is operational even after 7 years of Ban and flourishing. Why does Saeed get arrested after every terror activity? Why does an open secret Like Saeed's involvement with LeT so difficult to substantiate?

We are just reciprocating INDIAN hypocrises...any objection just cry louder. Whats the justification of 60 yrs of rape & injustice in KASHMIR...what about the UN decisions on that? And are we blind to not see why is INDIA building DAMS on our rivers & even RIVER KABUL. INDIA is no 'chum' of ours ....thats plain & simple, nor we are one , we never were. JUD is a big welfare organization, loved by many here
 
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india can express her fears. pakistan in return has to press the charges and look for proof. my problem is that y you guys simply deny the possibility of no proof being found? y do u ppl take it for granted that wat u r tellin us is the only truth? y cant it be the other way round espacially when u urself have got no evidence which can prove him guilty in the court? i am not defending JuD here or for that matter any other organisation.

Pakistan will not act against LeT/JuD even if India gives loads of CONCRETE proof. Reason:GoP does not want to act which truly reflects its seriousness in handling anti-India terror issues.For them and the pakistani army and the ISI, LeT/JuD is a charitable organization.
 
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Has India provided any evidence indicating Saeed's complicity in the Mumbai attacks, or is the desire to see him punished merely because of the links between JuD and LeT?

As I have posted elsewhere, AFAIK, the masterminds behind the Mumbai attacks were two LeT leaders, Lakhvi and Shah.
 
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