The budget in its entirety

[Viper0011.]

I just browsed through the rant....

So what you are talking about is what MULTI MILLION DOLLAR companies pay irrespective of what the law says (it says 35% - which is very high), right? At least if you have smart lawyers and IRS you could get these people....

Well, we in Pakistan are having the law WRITE it down so that no one can jiggle them ...Note the difference!

When anyone reads this they can already deduce your mentality

I am confused between calling someone dumb or dumber to be frank here. I have no clue as to what you are saying, its unclear and it just seems like you want to argue without having education or proper background in legal / taxation area. NO ONE should giggle the Taxes, period. The issue with Pakistan is that the government is trying to start to collect taxes at the most basic level so that everyone comes under the tax bracket. Once that happens, then you'll see certain changes and bracket adjustment. People like you, live in fool's paradise where IK and his cricket bat rules the world, whether he's failed to produce a dime worth of progress, it doesn't matter to you!!! Just like him his people ALSO have zero background in so many things, but they like to gossip and do propaganda without having to prove anything, just like your posts.

What you called the "Rant" was actually logic behind taxation laws. It is pretty obvious that you don't have ANY experience in this field, you don't want to learn either. So what's the result? I should just agree with you. SO here, Pakistan's Tax code was modified by NS in his home, while the entire state of Punjab's police was watching out to protect him, crimnals running free and destroying markets and all. But the entire state's police was outside of PM's home as you guys on here fool others to believe in. So one night, the ONLY taxation book with laws EVER printed, this guys NS, decided to change some papers in the book. Binded it with glue and sent it to the Parliament back to its desk. The entire country uses that ONE book every published. In those modified pages with NS's handwriting on it, he allowed his buddies to have land without taxes so they can get rich!!!

Happy? Next time, if you want to involve me into a discussion, please have some basic background in the area you are talking about. The laws and taxation isn't a casual thing like someone decided to smoke or not smoke a cigarette. You and a few of your propagandist buddies make it sound like so!!!

Your reply to a lack of taxation of the rich is go to the supreme court. You know your being from the US or not is doubtful, but your close mindedness is not. You did not answer one thing using any principle of business, or logic. Grow up

Your response was expected. When you actually graduate in Taxation Law, you should come back here and actually discuss this with me. Till then, you can write your childish posts and make statements like your leader IK, who thinks his cricket bat would rule the world one day. When you start to see beyond a cricket bat and into serious issues like taxation, and have gotten a basic clue on what tax codes are and how they are structured, we can probably have a conversation. Till then, you should get educated, instead of being a political activist, trying to bash others without having the brains or the knowledge to get into a logical and legal debate about an issue.

 

[Dubious]

giggle

you mean jiggle? I said jiggle it out of the people...God! I stopped reading there...The day you can read my post properly would prob be the day you can answer it accordingly!

The issue with Pakistan is that the government is trying to start to collect taxes at the most basic level so that everyone comes under the tax bracket. Once that happens, then you'll see certain changes and bracket adjustment.

EVERYONE should include the politicians, those getting tax relaxations...However, people are getting tax relaxation (your idea of adjustments) before everyone even comes in the bracket is proof that your theories and all the education in the world cant be applied at what is happening here!

People like you, live in fool's paradise where IK and his cricket bat rules the world, whether he's failed to produce a dime worth of progress, it doesn't matter to you!!! Just like him his people ALSO have zero background in so many things, but they like to gossip and do propaganda without having to prove anything, just like your posts.

Yea this coming from one who lives in America and tries to be an expert on Pakistani affairs with his theoretical knowledge...Child, grow up! Theory isnt always what is being practiced!

What you called the "Rant" was actually logic behind taxation laws. It is pretty obvious that you don't have ANY experience in this field, you don't want to learn either.

I want to learn but not from an experienced bashing machine with zilch knowledge of Pakistani system and accompanied with his theory thinks he can shove it where he pleases!


Do you know why people make their own tax laws or adjust it every now and then instead of using ONE MAJOR textbook?

The problem with you is you prefer to shove your theory where in practice nothing as such is happening!

a person who may own a bunch of Taxis

I talked about a taxi DRIVER and you gave me this para and cried that I didnt read it? Sorry child, I dont waste my time on things that dont apply!

 

[Viper0011.]

you mean jiggle? I said jiggle it out of the people...

EVERYONE should include the politicians, those getting tax relaxations...However, people are getting tax relaxation (your idea of adjustments)!

Your "jiggle" is my "giggles" as the logic is so stupid, coming from someone who doesn't have basic knowledge of taxation. Don't ever try to get into a court to argue this, they'll fine you and will hold you in contempt (and potentially for spreading stupidity).

Politicians aren't exempt from taxes. Whoever thinks that, is a total fool. If a politicians or Joe Shmoe qualify legal tax exemptions as a business or agriculture, there is NOTHING you can do. Have at it and use your right to the court and file a complaint against whoever these guys are in the Supreme Court. When you waste all of your dad's money, you let us know the outcome. And remember I told you to go get educated on how taxation works before writing on here as an expert on it!!! I don't think there is any reason to continue on with this discussion as you have no clue how taxation works!!!

 

[Dubious]

Your "jiggle" is my "giggles" as the logic is so stupid, coming from someone who doesn't have basic knowledge of taxation. Don't ever try to get into a court to argue this, they'll fine you and will hold you in contempt (and potentially for spreading stupidity).

Mr. Lawyer I think any judge would hold you in contempt first for falling to understand the difference between a clause "jiggle it out of them - it is from old English when people had coins as money and you could jiggle it out of them by turning them upside down and shaking them! A clause well understood by people who have met human beings

While giggles is a form of laughter! Good day dont quote me I have very little tolerance for trolls!

Politicians aren't exempt from taxes.

And here comes the theoretical bookworm

 

[Viper0011.]

Mr. Lawyer I think any judge would hold you in contempt first for falling to understand the difference between a clause "jiggle it out of them - it is from old English when people had coins as money and you could jiggle it out of them by turning them upside down and shaking them! A clause well understood by people who have met human beings
While giggles is a form of laughter! Good day dont quote me I have very little tolerance for trolls!

And here comes the theoretical bookworm

Please do me a favor, learn about a subject before posting crap. Reading your posts about taxation almost sounds like a home construction worker talking about Fluid Dynamics and Thrust Vector Controls!!! This is how FAAAAR apart you are on this subject, in terms of real legal ramifications and taxation basics!!!

 

[TankMan]

Your response was expected. When you actually graduate in Taxation Law, you should come back here and actually discuss this with me. Till then, you can write your childish posts and make statements like your leader IK, who thinks his cricket bat would rule the world one day. When you start to see beyond a cricket bat and into serious issues like taxation, and have gotten a basic clue on what tax codes are and how they are structured, we can probably have a conversation. Till then, you should get educated, instead of being a political activist, trying to bash others without having the brains or the knowledge to get into a logical and legal debate about an issue.

How about you respond to @Gufi 's well-articulated and perfectly reasonable argument with logic instead of nonsense about IK? You are obsessed with and hate Imran Khan, fine, we don't care as long as you stay on topic. He didn't make this budget and he didn't write @Gufi 's post.

I'll quote the post and give you a simplified general idea so you can comprehend and respond to it, but if your response is ''go to the Supreme Court'', don't bother.

Wow first of all you comparing us with the US..... We have no technological sector to compare to the US, we have no industry that can make up for the decreased taxes for agriculture. You see we are what you call an agricultural economy, we try and earn money from our cash crops. Business 101, tax your centre stone of earning to get highest returns.

Actually that is not true in Pakistan, there are poor farmers but we have MPAs and MNAs who own cars worth more than 100000 dollars and their income is tax free because they earn from agriculture. I would love for you to explain this. They own land encompassing several kilometres and earn more then 10 million rupees in a year. Yet a person earning 0.5 million rupees in a city is taxed. Yet some how you justify this. Party politics may be good, but basic humanity is also a requirement.

Oh yes Chaudry saab pays less then the minimum wage, and at times just the food and basic requirements of the house are met At the same time they treat these people like slaves and interfere in every aspect of their lives. Pakistan is bigger then the few villages in Punjab where things have improved for the common man, it is more then one tehsil and you forget that many people live under the poverty line in these villages while the land owners are profiteering.
Read the assets of the MPAs and MNAs from Pakistan and see how many benefit directly because they are land owners Instead of Land reforms which should have been chased being a simple majority with a amicable opposition there is a position of stale mate being seen.

Visit one of these farm houses, with their marble floors and their massive halls, the farm house you are picturing are a thing of the past This all is done in the dera, while farm houses are signs of wealth and prestige, with hardly any agricultural activities going on there. Like I said things have changed.

Taxes are from net incomes, not where you live. If you live in a village and earn above 1 million in an year, and most farmers do, there should be a tax on your income. Remember 5 lac( 5 hundred thousand) is where the tax starts on salaried individuals who pay more for food, rent, and utilities. That makes salaried people worse off. And if you keep investing more money on transit systems, you can not invest in rural BHUs, schools and other basic requirements, another debate for another thread.

Taxes are applied for net income, or else rich areas would not pay taxes, we manage our own roads rather then waiting for the government to do a shoddy job, we manage our own health care rather then trusting the hospitals run by the government, we even do not use government schooling, nor can we depend on government security because we have our own neighbourhood gaurds. As for business and all, we have to have our back up generators, we need tanks to store water because it is variable at best, and we have to install cctv cameras because security is not great. We have increased expenses compared to the farmers by many fold and use less utilities.

Most MPAs and MNAs in Pakistan have agricultural land as their base income . Please justify to me the lands the Bhuttos have, the Chaudrys have, the Saiens and Wadaras have, and tell me why they own the people that live for them What is their earning if not taxable, it goes into the millions, while those salaried classes which top 45000 is taxed. If they were providing basic needs of the people we would not be seeing record migration towards the cities. Nor would there be gross human rights violations in the areas that these people live.
you have raised valid points but all of them apply to a different setting. America does not depend on its agricultural base to provide income, rather it subsidies it to run its mammoth industries in the food sector, and you mainly talk about corn which goes into everything. We sir are an agricultural economy, we need to tax our base to make sure we have money to spend for infrastructure, we have money to develop a proper healthcare system, we have money to build a proper police, and most importantly we have money to educate our youth. Remember crime and terrorism are a direct root of the injustices with the poor, the ability to buy people because they have nothing good from the state, all they know or will know is poverty . This budget has in the agricultural section, disappointed those who wanted to see real change in the budget towards a more balanced payment system, where the rich land owners are taxed with the salaried class, where even 1 million income for farmers got taxed instead of the base line of 4 lac for salaried class, where instead of massive subsidies to the rice mills they would be punished for ruining the name of Pakistani Basmati rice, for not branding and keeping proper quality checks has robbed us of the money we could have earned, where meat packaging is preferred to giving money to NACTA, that is when your nation needs a rethink.


That really sums you up, YOUR government has MNA's and MPA's who own miles of lands but do not pay taxes. IT is your government which wants reduced taxes on Tractors, you know now you just proved how big of a farce this budget is Now I would like you to condemn this policy

So, what he very rightly said here was, in a nutshell:

1)Pakistan and the US are very different. Pakistan is an agricultural economy and we depend very much on agriculture since we don't have alternatives like the US does.

2)Rich politicians and their mafias are not taxed at all because they earn their money from agriculture while they get to treat their labourers as slaves.

3)Dynasties like the Bhuttos, Saeins, Waderas and Chaudhrys have massive incomes and own very much land but they are not taxed. Pakistan can not afford to leave all this untaxed because we need money to develop a proper healthcare system, to build a proper police, and most importantly to educate our youth.

4)Rice mills are being given subsidies while people are dying at the hands of terrorists and our NACTA is being deprived of the funding it needs to do its job.

If you think you can logically justify the massive faults of this budget and somehow prove that it is infact geared towards Pakistan and not feudal dynasties or rich politicians, please attempt to do so.

Politicians aren't exempt from taxes. Whoever thinks that, is a total fool. If a politicians or Joe Shmoe qualify legal tax exemptions as a business or agriculture, there is NOTHING you can do. Have at it and use your right to the court and file a complaint against whoever these guys are in the Supreme Court. When you waste all of your dad's money, you let us know the outcome. And remember I told you to go get educated on how taxation works before writing on here as an expert on it!!! I don't think there is any reason to continue on with this discussion as you have no clue how taxation works!!!

This is what you fail to understand; that politicians in Pakistan are exempt from taxes because they are the ones managing all the budget and governing the country. This budget has ensured that the poor are squeezed by taxation while the rich landowners and politicians remain exempt.

This is not about the Supreme Court. This is about governance. To remain fixated on the Supreme Court is a myopic and ignorant approach.

 

[Dubious]

Please do me a favor, learn about a subject before posting crap. Reading your posts about taxation almost sounds like a home construction worker talking about Fluid Dynamics and Thrust Vector Controls!!! This is how FAAAAR apart you are on this subject, in terms of real legal ramifications and taxation basics!!!

Ok child.....Whatever

 

[Viper0011.]

This is what you fail to understand; that politicians in Pakistan are exempt from taxes because they are the ones managing all the budget and governing the country. This budget has ensured that the poor are squeezed by taxation while the rich landowners and politicians remain exempt.

This is not about the Supreme Court. This is about governance. To remain fixated on the Supreme Court is a myopic and ignorant approach.

I cut all the other crap as it has been discussed before. To discuss legal tax code, one doesn't need to be "articulated" as you referred in your post. One needs to have LEGAL background to understand the law, why it was created and the ramifications of it. The ONLY reasoning and logic you can get out of something as complex as the Tax Code, it through an attorney who specializes in it. The internet warriors on here from IK's squad, just come up with a weekly thing to bash NS and his team, when they have NOTHING to do with it. THAT is where you'll see me coming in. If you post something real about NS and its true, TRUST ME, I'd be the first one to bitc*h slap NS or his friends. The point is, people who are working to take Pakistan and have made great strides in less then 3-4 years, even in the WORST situation you can ever find a country in, should be appreciated a little bit. You guys are still Pakistanis, when you see Metros and other things around you and you know inside your heart its good work, you should appreciate it. If anyone did corruption, the legal system is there. You guys are so negative due to your own political ramification that its sad.

On the post above, the tax code is the tax code. NS didn't write it in his house in the dark last Saturday night when he had nothing else to do and he decided to benefit his buddies through manipulation of the code. The tax code has been in place since Pakistan was built. It is THE LAW. Now instead of bit*ching and moaning on here, how about you reach out to your local legal representative and have them open a petition in the Parliament?? You are THE PEOPLE and you have a right to do so, it is your country and your system. And that's the process.

But instead of following the process, you are too busy politicizing different things every week without basis. Go follow the process, NS didn't write the code. It came into existence like 70 years ago and is a derivative of the British India's tax code. Sorry, blame the Britts may be for all these people sucking money out of land????

Ok child.....Whatever

LOL, this "child" can teach you so many things that you haven't even seen on TV, grandpa. They invented actual tablet computers, instead of disk operated Atari computers.

Today, the new cars can drive by themselves and can monitor lanes and speed limits automatically. The Russians withdrew from Afghanistan like 4 decades ago. Just making sure you are up to speed on time, its the 21st century and year 2015!!

 

[Dubious]

LOL, this "child" can teach you so many things that you haven't even seen on TV, grandpa. They invented actual tablet computers, instead of disk operated Atari computers.

And this grandpa can teach you to behave as a human being even after seeing the corruption you soo dearly bash when it pleases you and ignore when it is yelling in your face!

2ndly, theory isnt the world....Practical world teaches you more!

Today, the new cars can drive by themselves and can monitor lanes and speed limits automatically. The Russians withdrew from Afghanistan like 4 decades ago. Just making sure you are up to speed on time, its the 21st century and year 2015!!

Good joke...Bugger off go troll someone else

 

[Viper0011.]

And this grandpa can teach you to behave as a human being even after seeing the corruption you soo dearly bash when it pleases you and ignore when it is yelling in your face!

2ndly, theory isnt the world....Practical world teaches you more!

Good joke...Bugger off go troll someone else

Getting personal grandpa!!! I am sorry if I hurt your little feelings. Trolls don't talk legal and facts and the Tax Codes. Trolls just repeat statements coming out of IK's office, who also sees a Cricket Bat ruling the world. Its pretty obvious who the troll is, I am JUST correcting the lying and the propaganda as it damages people's reputation who have been doing the ACTUAL work for Pakistan. While IK....is just playing with his Bat!

 

[Dubious]

Getting personal grandpa!!! I am sorry if I hurt your little feelings. Trolls don't talk legal and facts and the Tax Codes. Trolls just repeat statements coming out of IK's office, who also sees a Cricket Bat ruling the world. Its pretty obvious who the troll is, I am JUST correcting the lying and the propaganda as it damages people's reputation who have been doing the ACTUAL work for Pakistan. While IK....is just playing with his Bat!

Telling a troll to bugger off is not getting personal...SO far you have not written a single thing that can be applicable to the thread!

You blind love for a certain party is apparent....Bahar mein jai Pakistan and its people as long as your upper class is happy...

 

[TankMan]

I cut all the other crap as it has been discussed before.

So you can not respond to it and therefore me and @Gufi are right about the failure of the government and the flaws in this budget. Very well, glad you admitted.

To discuss legal tax code, one doesn't need to be "articulated" as you referred in your post.

I never said one needed to be articulate. I said his post was articulate. The word 'articulate' has many meanings, one of them is ''to express an idea or feeling fluently and coherently''.

o discuss legal tax code, one doesn't need to be "articulated" as you referred in your post. One needs to have LEGAL background to understand the law, why it was created and the ramifications of it. The ONLY reasoning and logic you can get out of something as complex as the Tax Code, it through an attorney who specializes in it.

So only lawyers can discuss taxation and governance? Do you realize that one can be educated in economics and understand taxation without any legal background?

This is an internet forum, not a court of law, and anyone can argue here as long as the argument is rational, factual and can be defended.

Background doesn't matter. You've admitted that you can't argue with @Gufi 's points, therefore whatever background you have is irrelevant because we have presented logic and a rational argument despite our supposed lack of knowledge.

bitc*h

bit*ching and moaning

stupid

crap

Refrain from using vulgar language. It was uncalled for and is in bad taste and therefore offensive.

You guys are still Pakistanis,

You mean to say we are inferior to you? I take offense for that and politely request you to go to Hell.

On the post above, the tax code is the tax code. NS didn't write it in his house in the dark last Saturday night when he had nothing else to do and he decided to benefit his buddies through manipulation of the code. The tax code has been in place since Pakistan was built. It is THE LAW.

You have no idea how a government works, do you?
If NS can decide to give subsidies to rice mills and tax cigarettes, he can decide to tax the rich landlords. For your information, Pakistan's current taxation system is based on an ordinance from 2001, not since Pakistan was built. It's not set in stone and can be changed if necessary.

LOL, this "child" can teach you so many things that you haven't even seen on TV, grandpa. They invented actual tablet computers, instead of disk operated Atari computers.

You, personally, invented tablet computers? You really ought to file a complaint against Microsoft, Apple and Samsung, they seem to be infringing your patent and making billions.

 

[Viper0011.]

Telling a troll to bugger off is not getting personal...SO far you have not written a single thing that can be applicable to the thread!

You blind love for a certain party is apparent....

So far, I've given you half the sense behind the tax code in half the globe, you just failed to understand it. Just like that, you guys from IK's sect will sit in a nice Metro bus or on a nicely built Motorway in Pakistan, and will STILL say, where is the Metro or the Motorway, I don't see it, it's a non existent project!!!!

I don't have any reason to support ANYONE in Pakistan, let alone a party. I am supporting growth of Pakistan, economic expansion, a better lifestyle for its 170 million poor, average people and removal of terrorism and extremism from the society. I am ALL supportive of all these good things. So I'll support the person who's working to change what Pakistan was, to what it should be, like the rest of the modern world in 2015!!

 

[Viper0011.]

So you can not respond to it and therefore me and @Gufi are right about the failure of the government and the flaws in this budget. Very well, glad you admitted.

So only lawyers can discuss taxation and governance? Do you realize that one can be educated in economics and understand taxation without any legal background?

Refrain from using vulgar language. It was uncalled for and is in bad taste and therefore offensive..

1) We are discussing the tax code and some of your cousins have issues in Agricultural Exemptions. I've explained the purpose why and that the Tax code was the SAME as it was in anyone else's time. In fact, Musharraff's farm house was bought under the same code and he got agricultural exemption, same for IK's farm house in Bini Gala!!!

So if you really have an issue with that, you need to be upset with the Britts as they wrote the Tax code, not NS. When your favorite politician comes into power (I project 2099 if he's still around), then you can ask to change the code. Till then, be upset with the Britts. Do question IK and Mushy as to why they bought their farm lands under agriculture exemptions......that's crime apparently in your views???

2) Taxation can be learned in school through courses. But when people start to show you the interpretation of the law, according to their own political twist, that's when you need to have credentials to back up what you are sounding an expert about. And the fact is, including you and the remainder of PTI's propagandists on here, not ONE person has ANY clue how that works. But you all are sounding super smart like you wrote the law for the Britts!!!

 

[salarsikander]

So you can not respond to it and therefore me and @Gufi are right about the failure of the government and the flaws in this budget. Very well, glad you admitted.

I never said one needed to be articulate. I said his post was articulate. The word 'articulate' has many meanings, one of them is ''to express an idea or feeling fluently and coherently''.

So only lawyers can discuss taxation and governance? Do you realize that one can be educated in economics and understand taxation without any legal background?

This is an internet forum, not a court of law, and anyone can argue here as long as the argument is rational, factual and can be defended.

Background doesn't matter. You've admitted that you can't argue with @Gufi 's points, therefore whatever background you have is irrelevant because we have presented logic and a rational argument despite our supposed lack of knowledge.




Refrain from using vulgar language. It was uncalled for and is in bad taste and therefore offensive.

You mean to say we are inferior to you? I take offense for that and politely request you to go to Hell.


You have no idea how a government works, do you?
If NS can decide to give subsidies to rice mills and tax cigarettes, he can decide to tax the rich landlords. For your information, Pakistan's current taxation system is based on an ordinance from 2001, not since Pakistan was built. It's not set in stone and can be changed if necessary.


You, personally, invented tablet computers? You really ought to file a complaint against Microsoft, Apple and Samsung, they seem to be infringing your patent and making billions.

Hi,
he's just another deluded Pakistani, who shamelessly yet proudly calls himself American, with al this he has audacity to teach us Pakistanis on how to handle the matter in Amreeki style

He judges people if you disagree with Ganja then that means youre supporting IK, if you oppose civil rule ( as you have every right to in a democratic country) then he loathes your love for so called military dictatorship.

A classical case of confused desi who is trying hes best to distance himself from Pakistan and its associations and yet you will find him ever more closer to it.