The Atlantique Incident.

[Raider 21]

They Indians were quick to attack a slow moving unarmed aircraft the size of an airliner but we all saw how they fair when faced by the PAF and through sheer panic score own bullseye. The same fear and panic caused them to lose two more jets during the same period after the above incident.

In August 1999, Indian .Pakistan hostilities were at a peak, a PN Atlantique aircraft had been shot down by India and the tension on the borders was described as at at knife edge. There were constant air patrols, each side was monitoring the other around the clock resulting in aircraft being constantly scrambled. One of these resulted in two IAF MiG-21s being scrambled from an airfield in Indian occupied Kashmir, in the heat of the moment, while baring down the runway, No 2 MiG got caught in the leaders slipstream and began losing control and it's pilot proceeded to eject, the Indian air controller watching panicked and gave the call for eject without referring to No2, the MiG leader who was by this time airborne assumed that the call is for him so he also promptly proceeded to eject.
Whether an air violation by the PAF materialized on that day or not but it certainly caused the IAF the loss of two aircraft....some sources describe it as the cheapest kill of the conflict.

18th August 1999

Indian A. F. MiG-21Bis Srinagar AFB Take Off from Srinagar AFB No.2 in a two aircraft take off. Pilot was too close to No.1 and lost control in the slipstream and crashed after take off. ATC called out for him to eject. No1 in the formation responded to the wrong call and ejected Flying Officer G S Dhindsar

18th August 1999

Indian A. F. MiG-21Bis Srinagar AFB. Take Off from Srinagar AFB No.1 in a two aircraft take off. Responded to a misguided 'Eject' Call given by the ATC to Flying Officer Dhindsar who was the No.2 Flight Lieutenant K S Deswal

The MiG-21 crashes are independent and cannot be claimed, we've seen what can happen during scrambles. Now if it is due to the skills of their pilots then that is a different case.

The PN Atlantique I heard was entirely their fault. They veered off into enemy airspace. At least this is the narrative I heard from some of the PAF pilots. Official inquiry was taken up at the UN and the outcome was in favour of India.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Though Mr Hussain took the orders and implemented but he never boasted on that and later written the letter to the daughter of deceased CM and apologised.
The Indian pilot was from another breed and I believe that he met his fate justifiably.

Your opinion is noted.

I regret that i have nothing positive to say about it. Your conclusions about his breeding are astonishing, to say the least.

 

[Joe Shearer]

hahhahahahhahaahhahha this is hilarious and utterly amusing how stupid Indiots are

From YOU? Oh well, another Indian Pakistani bites the dust.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Aircraft squack IFF codes of civil airliners when they need to hide. Indians used to do it all the time when violating our borders.

I refer you back to the picture of the plane in question.

I have heard and read stronger arguments.

 

[valkyr_96]

.....Official inquiry was taken up at the UN and the outcome was in favour of India........

What does that mean?

The court ruled it had no jurisdiction over the matter just as India had claimed. It did not settle the dispute at hand.

 

[Raider 21]

What does that mean?

The court ruled it had no jurisdiction over the matter just as India had claimed. It did not settle the dispute at hand.

Yes and they walked away with it either way, as the case got dropped. They have a confirmed kill on the Atlantique.

 

[valkyr_96]

Yes and they walked away with it either way, as the case got dropped. They have a confirmed kill on the Atlantique.

You are not making much sense. The court giving judgement on the substance of the matter (wrongdoing) and the court judging that it does not have the jurisdiction to judge the substance itself are two different things. It has got nothing to do with the "confirmed kill". This is important because it has often been presented across the border as a vindication/absolution for the attack.

If they did walk away - it it is due to the failures of the people in charge failing to address/update the rules of engagement. A fact that was brought up and questioned just before the 27th September strikes. I remember it being reported a few times that Indian jets have intruded Pakistan airspace. We often wondered why the PAF or the AD did not respond in kind (since only a few years had passed) and the response on the TV given by retired personnel was that the aircraft intrudes during a turn (towards its own territory) therefore the rules of engagement did not allow us to engage the aircraft. It was a strange reason but then the Indians dropped bombs inside Pakistan (one must wonder if even this incident is enough for the policy-makers to change the roe). While I attempted to plug the same reason here on PDF no one was willing to buy it . Obviously then we struck them (mind you they did challenge us) and we forgot all about it.

I am not going to answer this matter further neither should you consider this the bottom-line and take offence. I just expected a a better comment from an analyst (my mistake I just saw the emboldened part and thought you were a professional -new layout)

 

[Raider 21]

You are not making much sense. The court giving judgement on the substance of the matter (wrongdoing) and the court judging that it does not have the jurisdiction to judge the substance itself are two different things. It has got nothing to do with the "confirmed kill". This is important because it has often been presented across the border as a vindication/absolution for the attack.

If they did walk away - it it is due to the failures of the people in charge failing to address/update the rules of engagement. A fact that was brought up and questioned just before the 27th September strikes. I remember it being reported a few times that Indian jets have intruded Pakistan airspace. We often wondered why the PAF or the AD did not respond in kind (since only a few years had passed) and the response on the TV given by retired personnel was that the aircraft intrudes during a turn (towards its own territory) therefore the rules of engagement did not allow us to engage the aircraft. It was a strange reason but then the Indians dropped bombs inside Pakistan (one must wonder if even this incident is enough for the policy-makers to change the roe). While I attempted to plug the same reason here on PDF no one was willing to buy it . Obviously then we struck them (mind you they did challenge us) and we forgot all about it.

I am not going to answer this matter further neither should you consider this the bottom-line and take offence. I just expected a a better comment from an analyst (my mistake I just saw the emboldened part and thought you were a professional -new layout)

The fact of the matter is in summary, the aircraft was shot down and Pakistan came back with nothing out of the matter, and yes the Indians walked away with it. Anything on subject to the matter is great if given in more detail, which I may or may not have more in writing. No offence taken.

Cheers !!!

 

[khail007]

Your opinion is noted.

I regret that i have nothing positive to say about it. Your conclusions about his breeding are astonishing, to say the least.

Sir G, exactly, for positivity you have to remove Indian glasses and being so you would have nothing astonishing.
Killing unarmed people will never pin a 'medal of bravery' on ones chest. Being apologetic on your act is another thing and being boastful on such act, another.
However justice had been served by nature.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Sir G, exactly, for positivity you have to remove Indian glasses and being so you would have nothing astonishing.
Killing unarmed people will never pin a 'medal of bravery' on ones chest. Being apologetic on your act is another thing and being boastful on such act, another.
However justice had been served by nature.

I take it that in your view, having removed 'Indian glasses', you find that nature is in the service of your nation?

An interesting point of view, and one calculated to put 'Indian glasses' back on everyone's face, including any from other nations who have the slightest dash of sanity in them.

 

[khail007]

I take it that in your view, having removed 'Indian glasses', you find that nature is in the service of your nation?

An interesting point of view, and one calculated to put 'Indian glasses' back on everyone's face, including any from other nations who have the slightest dash of sanity in them.

If you able to understand, nature serves any good and bad and that happened, digest it or not that is up to you, definitely not easy.
Again killing unarmed people is not a boasting act but regrettable, those who understand regret for and those who didn't understand it, boast it, that is the message which I am trying to convey but seems you only in denial mode. Painful but justice served.
One could argue and twist his tongue but ground realities and natures principal never changes for ones wish.

 

[Joe Shearer]

If you able to understand, nature serves any good and bad and that happened, digest it or not that is up to you, definitely not easy.
Again killing unarmed people is not a boasting act but regrettable, those who understand regret for and those who didn't understand it, boast it, that is the message which I am trying to convey but seems you only in denial mode. Painful but justice served.
One could argue and twist his tongue but ground realities and natures principal never changes for ones wish.

I'm sorry, I have nothing left to add.

 

[Windjammer]

The MiG-21 crashes are independent and cannot be claimed, we've seen what can happen during scrambles. Now if it is due to the skills of their pilots then that is a different case.

The PN Atlantique I heard was entirely their fault. They veered off into enemy airspace. At least this is the narrative I heard from some of the PAF pilots. Official inquiry was taken up at the UN and the outcome was in favour of India.

No one is claiming them as ''kills''. however since they were being hot scrambled in response to a direct threat from PAF hence the connection.