The analysis for the cause of rapes in subcontinent and it's solution

[Dubious]

I cannot understand are you are saying what I 'm saying? That if the man has already made up his mind, a women in biking nor a women in burkha will matter?

@samantk Nope....I didnt say that I said IF she takes SOME precaution, she will NOT have WHAT IF situations WHICH i mentioned in post 98.

You have to shed more light on this one.

if you really want to know, go read up....if it matters, you will spend time on it...

 

[Alpha1]

I dragged myself in because all of us are placing each other as the point of reference, so have you. Secondly, I've worked in both the clinical and forensic setting.

I didn't say the stuff in the other quotes that are in your posts. Are those your points mixed with my posts?



Well, you've read about rape victims, I've worked with them. These are not my finding, mind you, these are research findings. No girl wants to be raped whether she's in Burka or not. Burka is a choice for Muslim women, not an anti-rape weapon, it has been claimed over and over again but there is no proof of that.

chances are less if she is properly covered

 

[jaibi]

chances are less if she is properly covered

There is no significant difference in that. Sociologically, asking the victims, it doen't make a difference. A girl in Shalwar Kameez and a Burka wearing girl, when it comes to rape, are nearly equal in risk. You guys are seeing the problem in a wrong way. We are here to discuss solutions why must they be competitive? I am stating this proposition because I witnessed its fallacy in the forensic and rehabilitation centres.

 

[SamantK]

@samantk I am not sure if you are AWARE...few posts back you were asking the same society to allow FREEDOM for premarital sex and whatnot....

Yes, I was how does it conflict with my statement? I said our society and I meant our society which has differentiated a lot, which should not happen.

and they are the ones I was talking about...Not sure why you keep dragging yourself into places you are not...If you didnt do it...then fine...I did not point at you...I said SOME DO IT!

I'm dragging myself in this scenario, by that I am giving you examples where restraint is also a part of your up bringing and not everyone does it. THat is why those who do such things should be looked down upon rather than the victims of the heinous act.

my ONLY question was why are you staring when clearly she doesnt want to be stared otherwise she wouldnt be covered! Which part was too difficult to understand?

Staring
Verb
1. Look fixedly or vacantly at someone or something with one's eyes wide open.

Again, I do not have to stare to feel the imagined pain..

You NOT BEING A GIRL have been throwing stuff about how a girl feels and how you feel pain when MANY do not share your idea...YOU PUT THE SEAL on ALOT here...I just reciprocated it! Feels good know to try show what YOU DONT KNOW of the opposite gender by throwing assumptions based on YOUR wants!

Who are these you talk about? I do not live in a vacuum, I have many friends who I speak with. Some of them are muslims too.

Both A and B are by society ...I also put her psychology ....which maybe you missed...

The part was already covered under the trauma of that incident, no? The trauma which is amplified by the society who wants to shun you for no fault of yours.

that is not overpowering and mugging is not the same as something happening TO THE SELF....are you soo materialistic that you find a material and woman the same?

No, I do not find material and women as the same, but many here asked me including you that will I marry a girl who has had sex before with some other person.

Concentrate on the word "analogy"

Maybe as a guy....The What if scenario haunts for longer than you would expect....Like if someone dies in a car crash ....what if i wasnt driving, what if i took a different root home....all these and many haunt for life!

It certainly depends upon person to person.. No person reacts and acts the same way, am not generalizing but a lot of that extended trauma comes from the society.

 

[Pboy]

chances are less if she is properly covered

Not always.... A rapists mentality is easy.

They want control and show that they are men and will sadly do so whether a girl is properly covered or not.

Yes, of course, you should not go and roam around the city half naked, but even then,

Rape is rape. You cant blame the victim for that.. (Not that you have done any such thing bro, just explaining a bit)

 

[SamantK]

Nope....I didnt say that I said IF she takes SOME precaution, she will NOT have WHAT IF situations WHICH i mentioned in post 98.

How can you guarantee that she will not have situations?
its not always about bar, not always about pubs or dress.. You are being very very simplistic here.

if you really want to know, go read up....if it matters, you will spend time on it...

I would like an inkling of what you think, cause I want to keep that in my mind. So could you share what's on your mind?

There is no significant difference in that. Sociologically, asking the victims, it doen't make a difference. A girl in Shalwar Kameez and a Burka wearing girl, when it comes to rape, are nearly equal in risk. You guys are seeing the problem in a wrong way. We are here to discuss solutions why must they be competitive? I am stating this proposition because I witnessed its fallacy in the forensic and rehabilitation centres.

Sir, you have pointed out a thing which even a bystander like me can make out from all the news I hear of. The dress indeed is of no consequence to a person who has decided to rape.

 

[jaibi]

How can you guarantee that she will not have situations?
its not always about bar, not always about pubs or dress.. You are being very very simplistic here.

I would like an inkling of what you think, cause I want to keep that in my mind. So could you share what's on your mind?



Sir, you have pointed out a thing which even a bystander like me can make out from all the news I hear of. The dress indeed is of no consequence to a person who has decided to rape.

Thank you, sir, I'm still grappling with why is it so hard to grasp. We're talking of rape not ideologies or nationalities then why is it being dragged in? I really wonder how inappropriately a 9 year old was covered to be raped.

 

[Kloitra]

@Kloitra shows how narrow your mindset is...No covered up girl who thinks her life is more dear than to WHAT society dictates to her is LIVING IN FEAR!

Want is subjective depends on where you live...A girl in Europe wants somethings which a girl in Asia will never want...and vice versa...

emulate the other gender Again media tells you that..But is a girls IZZAT not important enough for her to want to guard it? IF not then she should not cry if something goes wrong....IF she gaurded it and an animal attacked her than AT LEAST we know the ANIMAL should get capital punishment for his behaviour as the GIRL NEVER provoked it NOR ASKED FOR IT....

Better safe than sorry has a good meaning...learn it!

Well, I find it really funny how people find it worth hiding also called PROTECTING/ keeping safe their money or valubales and gold but a girl keeping her valuable self safe is suddenly SUPPRESSION...

You misunderstood. You are being practical, according to eastern societies. My objection is against the social norms themselves. Why should a girls body be related to her 'IZZAT'.

I have nothing against burqa, if a girl wants to wear it, go ahead and enjoy. But what is wrong is that she wears it out of social pressure - direct or indirect.

 

[Icewolf]

Why lump Pakistan together with India?

India's problem with rapes does not happen in Pakistan, thank god.

 

[BDforever]

I was a curious child. Still am

dam you... stay away from us

 

[Kloitra]

Why lump Pakistan together with India?

India's problem with rapes does not happen in Pakistan, thank god.

Cause if you remove your hate glasses, you would know that the situation is not much difference. India only stands out cause of media outrage, and sheer numbers for same ratios.

And to further clarify, according to UNO stats, per 100,000 rape in India is much smaller figure than, say UK. Even if we consider less than 1 out of 10 gets reported. Only thing thats different is the public outrage or media coverage. In just past 2 weeks, there have been two cases in North America where a rape victim teenage girl committed suicide, yet the public seems insensitive.

Compared to this, I am pleased that Indian people are so aggressive against it.

 

[Aka123]

The longest threads in the forum are the rape threads. That means basically most are interested in this kind of topics but in the guise of hatred. No other good topics to discuss I guess.

 

[baajey]

Causes of rape in a nutshell:
1. venting out frustration, proving themselves (rapists) as all powerful and macho
2. overdose of sexually provocative material in mainstream media (doesn't effect the level headed but hits them rapists hard).
3. lack of sexual education among kids of the subcontinent. mixing between girls and boys at school level is still discouraged resulting in "other party" syndrome.
4. our countries (subcontinent) are young, but that doesn't mean the diaspora is. Neither does it mean the whole society has gone corrupt. but the indifference of more mature members of the society to the less matured ones regarding right/wrong is a catalyst towards more sex related crimes.

5. examples are to be made to the would be rapists so that they should muster enuf courage to do the crime. but castration/death by hanging/public beheading etc the primaeval and shall be not effective in the long run. this would lead to revenge crimes and conviction of innocent ppl instead.

Instead Gandhian principles (NOT let them rape indefinitely till they gain conscience) should be followed while punishing the convicted. law should be made to force the rapists to apologize to random women (at least 100) in busy areas for their act and all the while carrying a big banner on his front depicting his crime. police should ensure the process. by this, the rapist will realize what he has done and the would be rapists would be nipped in the bud.

values need to be grown from inside. it cant be thrust upon us.

 

[anonymus]

@Talon,

i am not replying for whole post but only part of it as some points in this post has been discussed subsequently by samantk and zaibi.

@anonymus
What is with you lot...1 set thinks we evolved from apes and now reptilian brain...Am yet to see a crocodile say HEY WHATS UP!
Sorry But I seriously came from humans....not sure where you came from...Since I am not in neurology ...all those terms mean nothing to me...cant be much bothered esp when the beginning of the sentence equates a human brain to reptilian ones!

1. Humans did not evolved for apes. They just had a common ancestor. From there they had gone their way in evolution we have gone our's.

2. Chimpanzees are not the starting point of evolution. The first organism to evolve was single celled and it evolved during Eo Archean period. The fossils of subsequent evolution relics are preserved in Australian stromatolites.

3. Reptilian brain is the term used for primitive brain, primitive in the sense of evolution. This is the part of brain which controls basic bodily functions and urges. Meddula oblongata and cerebellum belongs to this part along with some part of occipital lobe and central suculus. These part control bodily functions and urges and drives and is found in reptiles also. The later part is buily upon this foundation.

4. Frontal cortex is the part of brain in-charge of thinking process. It is the one which enables you to do planning, being creative and do algebra and the rest three are part of brsin responsible for linguistic capabilities

Then do not cry or ask the state to make STRICTER LAWS ...like I said earlier on...It is a social issue and society makes a state...

I also say, those who want to live the life with THEIR OWN RULES should then not cry if the state's name is tarnished or some laws are not implemented...1st you say it is not the state's matter than YOU DEMAND the state to take actions?! You bipolar?

No, i am not bipolar. State needs to take action and society needs to make stricter laws but the type of laws is what i differ on.

Prohibitory laws never make sense as

1. They are derogatory to humans. They treat subjects like infants and state like a nanny state.

2. When i ask state to make strict laws i meant that they should make strict punitive law. An example of that would be that you could drink but engage in hooliganism and you would serve an year in jail. Pretty much i am in partial consonance with Saudi philosophy of extreme punishments as it has been proven that punishments work only if they are extreme.

3. Under prohibitory laws, people do get access to the prohibited substance by illegal means and usually the worst one gets primary access. An example would be on-going gun control debate in USA. A simple proposition which i think participants there ignore is that, irrespective of restrictions you place on guns,criminals are going to have access to guns.

4.We may be able to prevent some crimes using prohibition law, but any legal measure has to judged by the social benefit of the law. A law is not an Islanded entity. It is a harbinger of political philosophy a state follows. A law which places restriction of an individual is a sign of state which regulates thought process of individual. this leads to muffling of creative thought process and is in toto bad for society. An example of this would be anti-terror laws .They are highly effective but they do not justify the erosion of rights to public.

As far as ADVANCEMENT goes, West has only SUCCESSFULLY built up on OLD theories, laws, understanding...Nothing new has been generated in a land which has been more stable than many of the countries in the East! Even they know it!

Now this is an supremacist argument that i encounter a lot on this forum. Look around yourself and see as to how many things you are using have been invented in east.

Coming to basic science.

1.Did someone in East propounded laws of electro mechanism before maxwell

2. Motion before galileo

3. Relativity before laplace and einstien

4. Planetary motion before Keplar

5.Quantum mechanics

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The only worthwhile contribution of east that has been build upon by west is in field of mathematics.

Some islanded contributions would never count as it was never part of eastern cultures to provide theoretical frameworks hence their inventions could not be developed upon.

Well, you throwing psychology left and right, have you learnt child psychology how BOTH parents are NECESSARY to raise a PROPER child? Well, then when HALF of Western kids do not know who their daddy is or why their mommy left what sort of miracle are you expecting from an average kid with such a situation?

It is also proved that parents carrying a dead relationship is much worse than single parent as far as psyche of child is concerned.

[MENTION=133385]
So you agree to state telling you how to raise a child but disagree with the state banning alcohol? At WILL you say the state should this and then say they shouldn't that...Who chooses what the state should agree to and not? A person whose family had been a rape victim would AGREE to alot of things than one whose has not...Everything has both sides....Sooo....who is to decide what is right or wrong? Saw the Indian's reaction to what alpha1 said....for him that is significant for a woman to cover, for others it is not....So, who decides? When provided a solution, you object...

Noe that is putting words in someone's mouth.The fact that i think it to be a socialist conspiracy would have made it clear that i am not in favor of state regulating private affairs.

You would be surprised as to how many idiots do...

But only fundamentalists have this as a default option. Have you heard of evangelical christians theory that if a women become pregnent during rape, she had enjoyed it and it is a just rape.In their view a women suffering rape could shut down her reproductive system.

First of all, sir, bravo for posting this and raising an issue and another bravo for using social sciecne to illuminate it. I would like to point out a few things though, firstly, sir, I would propose that we not see this from a purely Psychoanalytic view. There is a reason for this, though personally I believe Psychoanalysis is extremely useful but for the average person and policy makers it's too condensed to understand. I propose using social constructionism instead.

Secondly, sir, we don't really need to focus on child-rearing, see, taking rape as an holistic phenomena prevalent in every society we must cater the feminist argument that rape is acutally falsely constructed in schema in masculinity (Nilan, 2008). As the influence of the peer-group (Kandel, 1996) exceeds that of the family it is entirely possible and indeed seen that well-raised children and perfectly sane people commit rape.

Rape is actually not seen as a crime, it is either misfortune or calamity. The society needs to see it from a woman's perspective rather than a male's perspective and we need to reinforce not just the anti-rape message into the male population but address the hypermasculine conquest-driven sexual schema of expressing sexuality.

Good effort, we need more such posts.

Regards.

http://www.newcastle.edu.au/Resourc...nd Development_Masculinities and Violence.pdf

http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=search.displayRecord&UID=1996-05103-001

A very good post sir. I left out social constructionism because my grasp on it is weak.

 

[Dubious]

Yes, I was how does it conflict with my statement? I said our society and I meant our society which has differentiated a lot, which should not happen.

I'm dragging myself in this scenario, by that I am giving you examples where restraint is also a part of your up bringing and not everyone does it. THat is why those who do such things should be looked down upon rather than the victims of the heinous act.

Again, I do not have to stare to feel the imagined pain..

Who are these you talk about? I do not live in a vacuum, I have many friends who I speak with. Some of them are muslims too.

The part was already covered under the trauma of that incident, no? The trauma which is amplified by the society who wants to shun you for no fault of yours.

No, I do not find material and women as the same, but many here asked me including you that will I marry a girl who has had sex before with some other person.

Concentrate on the word "analogy"

It certainly depends upon person to person.. No person reacts and acts the same way, am not generalizing but a lot of that extended trauma comes from the society.

@samantk it is not really smart of you to throw me an analogy but if anyone else does they are overboard..but, I agree with what you have said....It differs from society...

1 thing for sure women who proudly drape the hijab do not need you staring at them to feel their pain...they drape it so you do not stare at them and they can walk freely without getting conscious about anything...

As for society....well, you cant accept a society to accept your open mindedness like pubs and all and then blame the same society for when rape happens...

Only if prevention matters have been taken, non provocative, good behaviour, good laws, IMPLEMENTATION of the laws, can you suggest your ideas to society until then no amount of debate is worthy of my time.

You are talking ONLY about yourself and your friends while I cover a broader scope....try using your open mind there!

LASTLY, put your sister, mother, aunt, niece in a situation and then talk about women...Like I had said in my earlier posts....WHY ARE YOUR WOMEN MORE IMPORTANT THAN OTHER WOMEN?