The air arm of the Egyptian army - an overview and summary of procurement plans

[sami_1]

The air arm of the Egyptian army - an overview and summary of procurement plans​

Eli Dekel-Dlitsky

29 Beshevat 5555 02.14.2018.

Update of parts 8 of the 5th Tevet 01.01.2023

From an Israeli perspective

As part of the basic research on the arms in the Egyptian army, chapters will be singled out for the arms: the land, the sea and the air defense. This time we will deal with the air arm. The review was originally written in February 2018, was updated in July 2020, and has now been updated again.

historical background

As early as 1937, the air force in the Egyptian army received the status of an arm. Since the war of independence, the Egyptian army has been working on the development of this branch. Indeed, for many decades now, the Egyptian army has been very careful that the Egyptian air force has at least a quantitative advantage over the Israeli air force.


In the early 1960s, Egypt, under the leadership of President Gamal Abdel Nasser, began to develop a military infrastructure for a war with Israel. In this framework, two new airports were built in Sinai: in Jebel Livni and Bir Thamada. And this is in addition to the airports in El Arish and Rafidim and Sharm el-Sheikh, which existed since the time of the Kadesh War.


In the Six Day War, the Israeli Air Force surprised the Egyptian Air Force and attacked the runways of the military airports in Egypt. The move prevented the ability of the Egyptian Air Force to take off, so that in the second wave the Israeli Air Force attacked the Egyptian planes while they were on the ground, and in fact the Egyptian Air Force did not really show itself in this war.

The discrimination in the Six Day War taught the Egyptians a triple lesson, which they apply to this day:

A. Immediately after the war, hundreds of apartments (protected structure for fighter-bomber planes) were built all over Egypt, and today there are over a thousand apartments. In fact, from then until today, all fighter planes have apartments (for transport planes and helicopters, the solution of apartments is usually impractical, so most of them stay at the airports without protection).


B. In most airports, an additional runway was built - which makes it difficult to paralyze the field, and additional new airports were also built.

third. A sophisticated air defense system was established that includes a combination of air-to-surface missiles of various types with radar-guided anti-aircraft guns, and an extensive network of radar emplacements was deployed all over Egypt. The air defense system is a separate arm, something that Egypt had to deal with during the Yom Kippur War. I don't know what the solution to this problem is today.

In the Yom Kippur War, the Israeli Air Force tried to repeat its success in the Six Day War, and tried again and again to hit the airport runways in Egypt, but this time to no avail (recommend listening to the lecture of Lt. Col. Aviam Sela in the link. [1]) On the other hand, the performances of The Egyptian Air Force during the Yom Kippur War, both in attacking IDF military targets in the Sinai, both in air battles and in close assistance to the Egyptian ground forces, were not something to be proud of, and this despite the fact that it was the one that struck first. The main failure of the Egyptian Air Force was that it failed to prevent the IDF's successful move.


The situation today

Egypt currently has about 60 airports - 45 of which are military, and military infrastructure facilities were built in them such as: military bases, ammunition bunkers, T/K fuel storages and fortified command and control centers. In addition to the airports for airplanes, where there are parking lots for helicopters, Also airports designated for helicopters only, such as: in Dursoar and Hatataba

In recent years, especially since Abdel Fattah al-Sisi took power in Egypt, there has been a boom in the construction of anti-corruption facilities, which is mainly carried out at airports in Sinai and in the Suez-Cairo Canal area.


In addition to the expansion of the airport infrastructure in the Sinai - Cairo area, works are also being carried out in the following fields:
A. At the military airport in Siwa (in the western desert near the Libyan border) a new runway is being paved. A wall with guard towers was built around the field and we built camps for the units to defend the field.

B. 12 more apartments were added at the Bata - Solom airport near the Egypt-Libya border. In my opinion, the expansion of the field is closely related to protecting the Egyptian naval base on July 3, which was built in western Egypt.

third. The civil airport in El Alamein was converted to military needs, on a renovated runway and 6 apartments were built there. In my opinion, the conversion of the field to military needs is due to the construction of the nuclear facility located in the nearby Adeva.

d. At the Ras Benas military airport (in the eastern desert near the border with Sudan), another runway was paved and 18 new apartments were built, apparently replacing the old ones.

God. The civil airport Kawnath (in the western desert about 300 km west of Abu Simbel and about 70 km north of the border with Sudan), is equipped for military needs and 16 apartments for fighter/bomber planes are being built there

Along with the works to develop the infrastructure of the Egyptian Air Force, Egypt is conducting an extensive procurement campaign to increase the air force and upgrade the capabilities of the aircraft as detailed below

Air Force General Staff

Below is a table summarizing what is known from visible sources on the subject of the Egyptian Air Force SDF. The table is based on information collected mainly from Wikipedia in 2017. The table has undergone a partial update of details updated to the end of 2022

Purchased the air arm

Since President Abdel Fattah al-Sisi took power in Egypt, the Egyptian army has been feverishly strengthening and equipping itself with the best weapons available for purchase in the world. The army is very particular about diversifying its sources of supply to avoid dependence on one country or another.

In the tables below there is a prot; What was purchased, how much was supplied and the cost in millions of dollars

Summary

The low performance of the Egyptian Air Force in the Yom Kippur War led the Egyptians to the conclusion (wrong or right - it doesn't matter at all) that the fault lies in the landing of the Soviet planes and armaments in front of the American planes and armaments in the hands of Israel. Now that they are equipped with an abundance of planes and advanced weaponry both from the United States and from the best European planes (the "Raphael" plane), they have gone to sea to be tempted to think that they have reached a balance against the Israeli Air Force. I hope that those in charge of Israel's security are aware of this danger and are preparing for it

Appendices

 

[sami_1]

What is mentioned in the Israeli article does not mean that it is 100% correct information, but it clarifies in a good percentage the directions of the Egyptian Air Force, although it is not 100% accurate. MIG-35, but it seems that Egypt turned to the FC-31 as an alternative to the MIG-35 fighter, especially after China achieved great successes in the J-20 project and the success of Chinese engine manufacturing programs that were completely parallel to the American engines.

There are also pending deals on the SU-57. There was interest and there were no contracts because Egypt did not want the plane with izdeliye 117 engines. The same is true of the level of thermal and radar signature of the plane.

We come to the point of the SU-35 fighter. This deal is next to impossible to undo. Egypt has already received the plane in Russia, but Egypt has development demands.

The fighter Rafale Egypt has already paid part of the price of the deal, so assembly operations will begin at the end of the year

The CH-5 & WING LOONG 2 UAV deals have already been completed, and they believe that a large part of them has been delivered. Egypt has also obtained other planes and new plane deals from China.

 

[sami_1]

Egypt is expanding another military airport​

Eli Dekel-Dlitsky

15 in the 5th tribe of Tashpag. 06.02.2023

A review of satellite photos shows that Egypt is expanding the military airport in Bnei Suif. The airport is located about 100 km south of Cairo and about 15 km northwest of the city of Bnei Suif, which lies on the west bank of the Nile and serves as the capital of the Bnei Suif district.

The development works began in early 2022 and include, among others:

A. Construction of nine double apartments (protected structure for fighter planes or bombs). These are pairs of apartments, with two apartments in each pair 55 meters long and 22 meters wide. A pair of such apartments can serve as shelter for six Rafale or F-16 fighter jets. Of course, a larger number of smaller planes or drones can be stored in the shed.

B. The airport has two runways, one 3,000 meters long and the other 3,600 meters long. On the side of the long runway, paving and expansion of the shuttle runway are being carried out. It is possible that at the end of the works, the shuttle route will also be ready for takeoff.

third. The field's fuel reserves are being expanded.
Bnei Suif Airport is one of 45 airports in Egypt. The field is one of the airports that protect the Cairo area and in addition it was also used as a field for the bomber planes. Since Abdel Fattah al-Sisi seized power in Egypt, he has been devoting resources to building airports and expanding them. Most of the development works are carried out at the airports built in Sinai and at the airports in the Cairo-Suez Canal area.

This article updates my review "The Air Wing in the Egyptian Army - Overview and Summary of Procurement Plans". You can view the review at the link: https://www.dekelegypt.co.il/230101

Below are some data on the development of military airports in Egypt.

The Israeli side closely monitors any developments in the infrastructure of the Egyptian Air Force, the Egyptian Army, the Egyptian Navy, and even the national development projects, and uses every poison that is constructive as a result of pressure on the American administration, and considers it a threat to its existence, although its presence in the Palestinian territories is illegal.
The follow-up process of the Egyptian armament and infrastructure is used by the Israelis to assess the real capabilities of Egypt, especially since Egypt has many of its capabilities, whether buying weapons or manufacturing them, which are not declared. Therefore, relying on published information gives false indications for assessing the Egyptian combat capability. On the other hand, the Israelis have a doctrine of imaginary superiority to them, which is good because it is. It will be one of the means to eliminate them if they think of using the military conflict as a means to deal with Egypt in the future. The Israelis do not understand that since October 24, 1973, the people will deal with themselves against it, not the armies, to which there is part of the corruption and lack of professionalism. The Israelis are put in dilemmas and losses that they cannot bear. In the end, they are a small artificial entity that will inevitably end, no matter what they do and no matter how much they seek help from the West, because the people do not accept them, even if the governments accept them.

https://www.dekelegypt.co.il/230122

https://www.dekelegypt.co.il/230206

 

[Gomig-21]

Good stuff, Sami. I missed this thread since I was sick at the time you posted it but I just stumbled upon it yesterday and have been trying to understand a few things that don't make sense to me. But coming from an Israeli independent source as well as my inability to read or understand Hebrew might explain the few misleading or incorrect items or even incomprehensible conclusions that the author of all the data (despite being updated as late as June 2022) is still puzzling.

For example, in the paragraph below...

What is mentioned in the Israeli article does not mean that it is 100% correct information, but it clarifies in a good percentage the directions of the Egyptian Air Force, although it is not 100% accurate. MIG-35, but it seems that Egypt turned to the FC-31 as an alternative to the MIG-35 fighter, especially after China achieved great successes in the J-20 project and the success of Chinese engine manufacturing programs that were completely parallel to the American engines.

Was here actually any interest in the FC-31 from the EAF over the MiG-29M/M2 (I know they're calling it the MiG-35 in their sources and graphs, but how accurate is that information on the Chinese stealth fighter and was it before they decided on the MiG-35 or after? The way they worded it sounds like they were interested in it after they purchased the 46 MiG-35s. Was there any info out of the Egyptian Armed Forces indicating any veracity to that interest?

There are also pending deals on the SU-57. There was interest and there were no contracts because Egypt did not want the plane with izdeliye 117 engines. The same is true of the level of thermal and radar signature of the plane.

Was the interest in the SU-57 real or something the Jews made up? I didn't have the means to check out all the available information on that interest during that period but I do recall that the Su-35SE's were requested with the SU-57's main AESA radar and not the Irbis-E as well as with the leading edge wing flaps AESA radars. So having an interest in the Su-57 as well would not be far fetched from reality, especially when MiG promised under the MiG-29M/M2 contract that it would upgrade all the Zhuk-ME doppler radars they installed in the 46 MiG-29M/M2s to the AESA Zhuk-AE. But the war in Ukraine broke out before they were able to interchange the radars and so that fell off the table for the time being. If in fact they did have the Su-57's AESA radars installed in the Su-35SEs, then it's quite possible they were very interested in the Su-57 itself, but do we know if that was after the Su-35 deal was complete?

We come to the point of the SU-35 fighter. This deal is next to impossible to undo. Egypt has already received the plane in Russia, but Egypt has development demands.

What do you mean "next to impossible to undo"? According to several Russian sources, the VVS has already received 2 batches of the Su-35S that were destined for Egypt. I also don't understand what you mean by "Egypt has already received the plane in Russia"?

The fighter Rafale Egypt has already paid part of the price of the deal,
so assembly operations will begin at the end of the year

The Rafale and a UAE Mirage 2000 are the only fighters that have beaten the F-22 Raptor in a mock dogfighting exercise, indicating their superb attributes in not only maneuverability, but weapon's packages in the MICA IR & ER missiles as well as its outstanding SPECTRA and EW capabilities.

The F-22 scored well against its training opponents, “shooting down” six Rafales and drawing in five more mock dogfights. However, one Emirati Mirage 2000 managed to “shoot down” an F-22. If that wasn’t enough for the world’s most advanced fighter jet at the time, a Rafale also defeated an F-22 in a mock dogfight.

The U.S. Air Force denied the instance, forcing the French Air Force to release a video from the Rafale cockpit showing the French pilot being in a position to “shoot down” his American colleague several times.

To achieve that, the Rafale pilot pushed his aircraft to the limits. At one point, the French pilot even reached 9Gs, and one can hear at the video footage how much he is struggling at those extreme forces of gravity where fighter pilots can sometimes pass out for a few seconds.

MSN

Summary
The low performance of the Egyptian Air Force in the Yom Kippur War led the Egyptians to the conclusion (wrong or right - it doesn't matter at all) that the fault lies in the landing of the Soviet planes and armaments in front of the American planes and armaments in the hands of Israel. Now that they are equipped with an abundance of planes and advanced weaponry both from the United States and from the best European planes (the "Raphael" plane), they have gone to sea to be tempted to think that they have reached a balance against the Israeli Air Force. I hope that those in charge of Israel's security are aware of this danger and are preparing for it.

Alright these guys are driving me crazy with the bizarro theories. Do they actually think that the massive and dramatic improvements in the Egyptian Navy with all its new frigates and new submarines and much more to come has created parity with the Israeli Air Force? I know they love to scream "PANIC" so they get the attention they think they need to prevent Egypt from acquiring further advanced weapons, but where is this phantom relationship between the EN and the IDAF?

And this part makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever!

The low performance of the Egyptian Air Force in the Yom Kippur War led the Egyptians to the conclusion (wrong or right - it doesn't matter at all) that the fault lies in the landing of the Soviet planes and armaments in front of the American planes and armaments in the hands of Israel.

Are they claiming that the Russians delivered all the weapons to Egypt during the Yom Kippur war right in front or the US' eyes and right into the hands of the Israelis? WTF?! The hashish these guys are smoking must be some heavy duty Afghanistani stuff, my goodness!

 

[sami_1]

Good stuff, Sami. I missed this thread since I was sick at the time you posted it but I just stumbled upon it yesterday and have been trying to understand a few things that don't make sense to me. But coming from an Israeli independent source as well as my inability to read or understand Hebrew might explain the few misleading or incorrect items or even incomprehensible conclusions that the author of all the data (despite being updated as late as June 2022) is still puzzling.

For example, in the paragraph below...



Was here actually any interest in the FC-31 from the EAF over the MiG-29M/M2 (I know they're calling it the MiG-35 in their sources and graphs, but how accurate is that information on the Chinese stealth fighter and was it before they decided on the MiG-35 or after? The way they worded it sounds like they were interested in it after they purchased the 46 MiG-35s. Was there any info out of the Egyptian Armed Forces indicating any veracity to that interest?



Was the interest in the SU-57 real or something the Jews made up? I didn't have the means to check out all the available information on that interest during that period but I do recall that the Su-35SE's were requested with the SU-57's main AESA radar and not the Irbis-E as well as with the leading edge wing flaps AESA radars. So having an interest in the Su-57 as well would not be far fetched from reality, especially when MiG promised under the MiG-29M/M2 contract that it would upgrade all the Zhuk-ME doppler radars they installed in the 46 MiG-29M/M2s to the AESA Zhuk-AE. But the war in Ukraine broke out before they were able to interchange the radars and so that fell off the table for the time being. If in fact they did have the Su-57's AESA radars installed in the Su-35SEs, then it's quite possible they were very interested in the Su-57 itself, but do we know if that was after the Su-35 deal was complete?



What do you mean "next to impossible to undo"? According to several Russian sources, the VVS has already received 2 batches of the Su-35S that were destined for Egypt. I also don't understand what you mean by "Egypt has already received the plane in Russia"?



The Rafale and a UAE Mirage 2000 are the only fighters that have beaten the F-22 Raptor in a mock dogfighting exercise, indicating their superb attributes in not only maneuverability, but weapon's packages in the MICA IR & ER missiles as well as its outstanding SPECTRA and EW capabilities.

The F-22 scored well against its training opponents, “shooting down” six Rafales and drawing in five more mock dogfights. However, one Emirati Mirage 2000 managed to “shoot down” an F-22. If that wasn’t enough for the world’s most advanced fighter jet at the time, a Rafale also defeated an F-22 in a mock dogfight.

View attachment 940943

The U.S. Air Force denied the instance, forcing the French Air Force to release a video from the Rafale cockpit showing the French pilot being in a position to “shoot down” his American colleague several times.

To achieve that, the Rafale pilot pushed his aircraft to the limits. At one point, the French pilot even reached 9Gs, and one can hear at the video footage how much he is struggling at those extreme forces of gravity where fighter pilots can sometimes pass out for a few seconds.

MSN

Alright these guys are driving me crazy with the bizarro theories. Do they actually think that the massive and dramatic improvements in the Egyptian Navy with all its new frigates and new submarines and much more to come has created parity with the Israeli Air Force? I know they love to scream "PANIC" so they get the attention they think they need to prevent Egypt from acquiring further advanced weapons, but where is this phantom relationship between the EN and the IDAF?

And this part makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever!



Are they claiming that the Russians delivered all the weapons to Egypt during the Yom Kippur war right in front or the US' eyes and right into the hands of the Israelis? WTF?! The hashish these guys are smoking must be some heavy duty Afghanistani stuff, my goodness!

Things are simpler than you can imagine
in simple responses
The development of the Egyptian Air Force is proceeding according to its plans for many years
For example, Egypt understood American pressure a year ago
2003 In order to supply weapons to Egypt to meet the Egyptian demands in light of Egypt's objection to America's invasion of Iraq, Egypt tended to activate the Egyptian military factories in the plans of 2002-2007 / 2007-2012 by qualifying Egyptian cadres in cooperation with China and provided the necessary funding for that

The United States refused to conclude a deal with Egypt to supply 60 F-16 BLOCK 60 aircraft or 100 F-16 BLOCK 52 aircraft to compensate for the departure of the MIG-21/F-7 squadrons and put pressure not to conclude deals with the Russians for the MIG-29/SU-35 in exchange for A huge package of old weapons for Egypt and the continuation of the M1A1 program
At the same time, Egypt mobilized sufficient financial resources to manufacture a combat aircraft and an attack helicopter, so the acceleration of the implementation of what was claimed to be a revolution and with the support of the army was due to the lack of civilian access to the rule of Egypt, which is what later in 2013 meant the theft of funds for the development of Egyptian factories under the pretext that they are private funds

We come to the Egyptian plans to arm Egypt, since 1998 it had an interest in obtaining a mixture of 60 heavy aircraft of the F-15C / E models and developing them to the level of the F-15E, and the refusal of America led to Egypt heading to other countries

At the same time, it wants to get 100 new fighters to support the tactical fighters. It already got 52 MIG-29M / M2 aircraft from them to support 240 F-16 / Mirage-2000 aircraft.
Rafale aircraft replace the Mirage-5 aircraft in all versions

The changes that occurred from the collapse of the armies of Syria, Libya, and the emergence of the Ethiopian threat to force Egypt to deliver the Nile water to Israel and settle the Palestinians in Sinai forced the Egyptian army to expand its acquisition of heavy fighters, and thus Egypt obtained an initial deal for 30 SU-35 aircraft, which was followed by 30 SU-planes. 57, which was explained by the Israeli source
The Russians overcame all their production problems, especially what they needed in terms of electronics, as China provided them with technology and production lines that raised their level 5 times what they had of self-capabilities, even if the Chinese did not give them everything, but this led the Russians to no longer need South Korea in the electronics that were you get it

We come to a point and another, the Russian development of the ZHUK-AE radar did not meet the Egyptian demands in terms of range and performance, as it was strange for a banker to have a range of 260 kilometers for a 3-meter radar section of the target, which Russia has failed so far, as it reached a range of 200 kilometers, which highlighted the emergence of an alternative competitor to the MIG plane -35 with J-10CY aircraft. The Chinese are interested in providing a complete deal for Egypt, and they made several offers to Egypt, including:
JH-7A2 aircraft for Egypt as a ground attack aircraft and an alternative to Egypt's previous desire for the American A-10
They gave Egypt offers to supply J-10 aircraft
He offered to Egypt that Egypt would produce the FC-31 aircraft to replace the F-16/MIRAGE-2000 aircraft, as Egypt needs to replace 100 F-16 BLCK 15/32 MIRAGE-2000 BM/EM aircraft.
And even expanding the matter to 240 aircraft in two batches 120 FC-31 G5
120 FC-31 G6 for a 15-year long-term deal
Egypt has not decided on the FC-31 deal yet, because it has not entered the initial service. Even if it started entering service at the end of 2023, Egypt will need two full years from the aircraft entering service to negotiate it to ensure that it is free from any problems. Egypt will seriously think about the plane in 2025.
The current Chinese offer, which is under study, is for Egypt to obtain 50 J-10CY/CS/D aircraft
Egypt produced 120 L-15B aircraft and a full package of ammunition for them
Likewise, China will allow Egypt, through the deal, to produce 1,000 PL-15E missiles, with local development and cooperation with China, to increase the range and capacity to 200 kilometers in the future.
China offers its weapons at a special price to Egypt, because Egypt needs large quantities, and Egypt will also be a gateway for other countries to obtain Chinese weapons

China is currently offering J20 aircraft to Saudi Arabia and Algeria for export, and Egypt may also obtain 30 aircraft as an alternative to plans to acquire the Su-57.
However, Egypt's main current and future request remains the J-10/FC-31 medium fighters. China's success in concluding major fighter deals with Egypt simply means the spread of Chinese fighters on a global scale.

Israel's strength remains in the failure of the military to bring about real development. The presence of the military in government means continuous economic weakness. What is happening in Egypt now of their economic failure will make their removal an inevitable form of the Egyptian people, because no improvement in Egypt's conditions for a group that considers itself Egypt and its economy as their private property and that they are the most efficient. It is unreal, because they failed in wars, were defeated in 3 out of 4 wars, which led to economic disasters for Egypt from the sixties until today, and Egypt's economic crises because of the current corruption, and therefore the West's support for them is support for weakening the Egyptian state.Simply put, we have said since 2015 that Egypt will not be able to buy whatever weapons it desires except through local manufacturing, because Egypt does not have the financial ability to purchase all of its needs, and we said that the current regime will be forced to manufacture locally because it is economically incapable, and this is what is happening now.The Israelis are not saying anything new. Rather, they are aware of the Egyptian plans, because they are also semi-announced. Egypt simply wants its air force to be similar to the South Korean Air Force in quantity and quality, and similar plans.

 

[Ghostkiller]

Rather, they are aware of the Egyptian plans, because they are also semi-announced. Egypt simply wants its air force to be similar to the South Korean Air Force in quantity and quality, and similar plans.

Meaning?

 

[sami_1]

Meaning?

The meaning is that Egypt wants to maintain a minimum

60 heavy fighters Su-35/57/F-15/J-20
360 fourth generation fighters /4++ are gradually being replaced by alternative fifth generation fighters
36-60 light fighter

There is a factor that Egypt's losses of MIG-29M/M2 fighters were not mentioned
The real losses may have reached 12 aircraft
6 planes fell in the exercises and also during the development of the capabilities of the plane, and in return for what Egypt lost in Sudan in terms of planes that are believed to have been destroyed in Sudan, it may reach 6 planes
So we saw news in Tactical Report about Egypt negotiating to obtain 12 Chinese J-10CE fighters at a value of one billion dollars as part of a currency exchange value in yuan and Chinese facilities worth $2.5 billion. It had no justification other than compensation for the losses of the MIG-29M/M2 aircraft.

As we mentioned, one of the advantages of the J-10CY in Egypt is the Chinese ammunition HD-1A / C-400AKG / KF-98A
And passing the manufacture of the PL-15E missile, and even China's assistance to Egypt in manufacturing a missile similar to the short-range MICA missile instead of the PL-7 missile.

 

[Gomig-21]

There is a factor that Egypt's losses of MIG-29M/M2 fighters were not mentioned
The real losses may have reached 12 aircraft
6 planes fell in the exercises and also during the development of the capabilities of the plane, and in return for what Egypt lost in Sudan in terms of planes that are believed to have been destroyed in Sudan, it may reach 6 planes

That was terrible. I'm sure you know how I fully praise them when they do well, but don't hesitate to give them a hard time about the egregious mistakes they make and that was one of the most terrible things that happened as a result of the carelessness of the EAF and whatever security measures they take when going to such hostile areas. They knew the situation in Sudan was very volatile and if they were going to take a chance bringing the 5 MiGs there, they should've either had MAJOR security and a super effective evac plan or cancelled the whole thing and not exposed the jets/pilots/crew to such a horrible losses.

It's one thing to lose a couple of aircraft to training exercise accidents or God forbid technical mishaps etc. But to lose them to terribly planned security at the hands of a civil war militia should never have happened. They should've probably not gone there and cancelled the exercise as it certainly wasn't worth losing 5 fighters to such carelessness.

Hard to tell exactly what happened but definitely signs of the fuel tanks being destroyed on at least 3 of the remaining ones. Hopefully they got the other 2 out of there in time. Maybe someone else knows the whole story.

 

[sami_1]

That was terrible. I'm sure you know how I fully praise them when they do well, but don't hesitate to give them a hard time about the egregious mistakes they make and that was one of the most terrible things that happened as a result of the carelessness of the EAF and whatever security measures they take when going to such hostile areas. They knew the situation in Sudan was very volatile and if they were going to take a chance bringing the 5 MiGs there, they should've either had MAJOR security and a super effective evac plan or cancelled the whole thing and not exposed the jets/pilots/crew to such a horrible losses.

View attachment 941804

It's one thing to lose a couple of aircraft to training exercise accidents or God forbid technical mishaps etc. But to lose them to terribly planned security at the hands of a civil war militia should never have happened. They should've probably not gone there and cancelled the exercise as it certainly wasn't worth losing 5 fighters to such carelessness.

Hard to tell exactly what happened but definitely signs of the fuel tanks being destroyed on at least 3 of the remaining ones. Hopefully they got the other 2 out of there in time. Maybe someone else knows the whole story.

View attachment 941806

View attachment 941805

What you mentioned is a personal analysis of the story of 12 J-10CE planes worth a billion dollars and possibly other weapons
But the losses of the MIG-29M / M2 are greater than stated
The subject of disasters is multiple since 10 years ago
And what happened in Sudan as a result of 10 years
Failed to contact me because this is very normal
The authorities have insulted the economy, and it has become a source of income, and it is natural for them to greed to fail in the economy
And they fail to protect water security
And that they fail to protect the state and protect national security
And securing Egypt from any disturbances in the neighboring countries in the neighboring countries that caught fire
And they made the Egyptian state effective in Sudan and Libya, a joke among the nations regarding the issue of the GERD dam, as Ethiopia carried out its will and there are disastrous results so that the upstream countries do not pay any attention to the interests of Egypt after today
As for the GERD dam
Those who are walking behind the plan to deliver water to Israel so that the people of Egypt will not be thirsty is a farce and a disgrace that time will not erase.

 

[Gomig-21]

What you mentioned is a personal analysis of the story of 12 J-10CE planes worth a billion dollars and possibly other weapons
But the losses of the MIG-29M / M2 are greater than stated
The subject of disasters is multiple since 10 years ago
And what happened in Sudan as a result of 10 years
Failed to contact me because this is very normal
The authorities have insulted the economy, and it has become a source of income, and it is natural for them to greed to fail in the economy
And they fail to protect water security
And that they fail to protect the state and protect national security
And securing Egypt from any disturbances in the neighboring countries in the neighboring countries that caught fire
And they made the Egyptian state effective in Sudan and Libya, a joke among the nations regarding the issue of the GERD dam, as Ethiopia carried out its will and there are disastrous results so that the upstream countries do not pay any attention to the interests of Egypt after today
As for the GERD dam
Those who are walking behind the plan to deliver water to Israel so that the people of Egypt will not be thirsty is a farce and a disgrace that time will not erase.

Good thing they bought 46 - 50 of them so that the attrition of possibly 12 by now -- although still pretty bad -- is not as bad as it would've been if they were only a batch of 24 and that number is cut in half with only a dozen left in inventory and then factor in the operational conditions where that would leave them with less than that for flyable units. Crazy when you think about it in those terms because it makes the carelessness of securing those aircraft and losing them in that manner much worst. Unfortunately, one can't help but think in comparison; how many other countries' air forces would've allowed such losses? Would South Africa with its Gripens for example? And of course, would you ever see the Jews be so careless?

Despite all that, the worst was obviously 1967 and that infamy we all have to live with.

I'm somewhat glad they didn't end up with the J-10C because of the Rafales. The interchangeable factor with the Typhoon and its weapons systems + data link etc. is MUCH better than if they would've ended up with the J-10s as they would be separated almost completely, regardless of the newly and upgraded RISC2.

More MiG-35s to compliment the current fleet and mentioned losses would also be a much better option. But then they did sneak by CAATSA on these MiG-29M/M2s but not sure how they would work out a new MiG-35 contract in light of the threat of sanctions on top of Russia's new reality of isolation from the western block, NATO and particularly the US because of Ukraine. The politics of all these military purchases is enough to make you want to jump off a bridge loool. I don't think there is a single other country out there that has to deal with all these politics and limitations to advanced platforms in its military purchases than Egypt.

I suppose the only good factor about not knowing where the EAF's Su-35s are and not having heard anything about any F-15 compensation is that maybe they also refused the F-15s and want to add to the Rafales or bring in Typhoons etc.

 

[sami_1]

Good thing they bought 46 - 50 of them so that the attrition of possibly 12 by now -- although still pretty bad -- is not as bad as it would've been if they were only a batch of 24 and that number is cut in half with only a dozen left in inventory and then factor in the operational conditions where that would leave them with less than that for flyable units. Crazy when you think about it in those terms because it makes the carelessness of securing those aircraft and losing them in that manner much worst. Unfortunately, one can't help but think in comparison; how many other countries' air forces would've allowed such losses? Would South Africa with its Gripens for example? And of course, would you ever see the Jews be so careless?

Despite all that, the worst was obviously 1967 and that infamy we all have to live with.

I'm somewhat glad they didn't end up with the J-10C because of the Rafales. The interchangeable factor with the Typhoon and its weapons systems + data link etc. is MUCH better than if they would've ended up with the J-10s as they would be separated almost completely, regardless of the newly and upgraded RISC2.

More MiG-35s to compliment the current fleet and mentioned losses would also be a much better option. But then they did sneak by CAATSA on these MiG-29M/M2s but not sure how they would work out a new MiG-35 contract in light of the threat of sanctions on top of Russia's new reality of isolation from the western block, NATO and particularly the US because of Ukraine. The politics of all these military purchases is enough to make you want to jump off a bridge loool. I don't think there is a single other country out there that has to deal with all these politics and limitations to advanced platforms in its military purchases than Egypt.

I suppose the only good factor about not knowing where the EAF's Su-35s are and not having heard anything about any F-15 compensation is that maybe they also refused the F-15s and want to add to the Rafales or bring in Typhoons etc.

The J-10CE and its future versions remain as good as one of the aircraft as a workhorse for the Air Force before entering the fifth generation fighters, and do not forget that it continues in the production lines and China is still providing it with more capabilities and updates, as well as its low price, as its price will not exceed $ 50 million in a package of 50 fighters.

The French, by announcing the RAFALE F-5 version, transformed the capabilities of the aircraft into a very good form, with an engine capacity of 120KN instead of the current version of 75KN.
And a multi-part radar RBE2 XG AESA means the plane overcomes weaknesses such as its work at a lower working height as well as better speeds and maneuvering at high speeds as a result of the significantly higher propulsion capacity.
The same is the case with the collection of targeting and reconnaissance warehouses in one warehouse instead of two separate warehouses, and improving the capabilities of OSF / SPECTRA, as well as new missiles and ammunition for the aircraft.
Which will make Egypt ask for another batch from it

One of the advantages of India's acquisition of the Rafale is Greece's interest in buying the RUDRAM II missile to integrate it into the Greek Rafale aircraft

Some make the United States valuable or its sanctions have any effect

Egypt in the ballistic missile program did not consider or value even the presence of the United States. The matter is not the DF-15D missile with a range of 1,000 kilometers or liquid fuel missiles with a range of 2,000 kilometers, but rather ignoring the American objections
Those who promoted sanctions against Egypt in the SU-35 deal are the Americans, and Egypt did not once announce the cancellation of the deal, but rather that Egypt signed an agreement with Russia to store Egyptian fighters in Russia. Until it was developed, this happened with the M1A1 tank, which the Egyptian army refused to receive in 1993 until it was developed according to Egyptian demands. The same thing happened with the S-300V4 missile systems, which Egypt refused to receive before developing and providing it with copies of missiles with a range of 350 kilometers. Even the copy of the MIG-29M / M2 aircraft was violated even after Receiving a number of them in Egypt, and the same thing, merging the new Russian ammunition KH-36 GROM E1/E2 and 40 targeting depots for it T220E
Are all the Russian armament systems that Egypt obtained from Russia only? America punishes Egypt for one fighter deal. The Egyptian economic cooperation program with Russia exceeds $40 billion and has a greater impact than the Su-35 deal.
The most obvious and frank thing is that America has imposed an arms embargo on Egypt since 2011, and what is happening in Egypt's relations with Russia and China is a response to American policies in military and economic cooperation. Also, policies against America impose Egypt’s exit from the grain agreements, preferring other countries in assigning projects and ignoring American companies. What is America’s share, for example, in projects worth 400 billion dollars implemented in Egypt in the last ten years? The numbers will be very limited, so who will be punished when you refuse to buy American wheat and products America and dealing with American suppliers, you are the one who punishes America, and are you waiting for Egypt to take care of American sanctions while it is the one who refuses to cooperate with it in the first place

With regard to the Russian MIG-35 fighters, they showed weaknesses in the level of development required for an aircraft, and also the Russian Air Force did not purchase it in large numbers, which makes the capabilities of developing the aircraft during the next 40 years limited, while the Chinese are still J-10C aircraft entering at a rate of 28 aircraft annually in the Chinese Air Force and being replaced The J-7E plane, which is logical to replace the Egyptian J-7 plane with the J-10 plane, which provides Egypt with Chinese ammunition that France or America do not provide in quantities or even the required price level, especially with China’s acceptance of Egypt’s production of the PL-15E missile in Egypt. Egypt may have a good opportunity if it can. Egypt developed the missile and produced missiles derived from it, just as Germany did in producing the IRIS-T missile, which allowed Germany to produce its own family of missiles used on fighters and air defense systems, all of which are based on the SIDWANDER missile that Germany developed into IRIS-T, meaning simply it is believed to be good. Desire, desire and will to develop, not fossilized minds incapable of development and thinking
Egypt is the worst thing in its leadership, so it became besieged. After the expulsion of the Egyptian ambassador in Iraq, Egypt was expelled from Libya and Sudan, and Ethiopia manipulated it, and it is a crime that bears the consequences of those who caused this during the past ten years.

 

[nile phoenix]

Hello comrades.

Quick question does anyone know anything about the alleged Egyptian/Chinese negotiations for PL-15 missiles and Shenyang J-35 fighter?

Is the negotiation regarding PL-15 for possible integration of this missile onto the F-16? Is it possible or is the deal associated with a possible purchase of a Chinese fighter such as the J-10 or J-35?

Regarding Egyptian Mig-29M/2....I always thought these things were lemons and the EAF should've gone for the J-10 from China and the Su-35E from the Russians...but what do I know??

 

[Ghostkiller]

Hello comrades.

Quick question does anyone know anything about the alleged Egyptian/Chinese negotiations for PL-15 missiles and Shenyang J-35 fighter?

Is the negotiation regarding PL-15 for possible integration of this missile onto the F-16? Is it possible or is the deal associated with a possible purchase of a Chinese fighter such as the J-10 or J-35?

Regarding Egyptian Mig-29M/2....I always thought these things were lemons and the EAF should've gone for the J-10 from China and the Su-35E from the Russians...but what do I know??

For me, it is all rumors. The rumors of Egypt negotiating for the PL-15 come from tactical report that isn't t reliable source.
Sadly Su-35 will not come. It is an old deal.

 

[Gomig-21]

Hello comrades.

Ya 3am enta fenak ya m3alem men zaman awi?! How long has it been since we were rapping together on Iran Defense? Great to see you here, really, and make sure you jump in and join us on the Egyptian Armed Forces thread. A lot of great heavy hitting stuff going on there especially recently on SOF tactics between Indian SFs and Sa'ka.

Is the negotiation regarding PL-15 for possible integration of this missile onto the F-16?

It's most definitely possible, especially with the Chinese-built pylon adapter which comes with all integration components. It's a great idea/invention that is basically an elongated pylon for the PL-15 that fits and connects mechanically and eclectically to any type of existing pylon, specifically to use Chinese A2A & A2G munitions. When I have a bit of time, I'll try and find the link and pic of it and post it, or our great member @The SC who was the first to know and post about it could maybe lead us to a thread he mentioned it.

On the other hand, WOULD IT BE ALLOWED TO BE INTEGRATED ON EAF F-16a, a Chinese adaptation for a Chinese A2A missile that is considered the equivalent to the AIM-120D and possibly with greater range (although we have zero solid proof of that) would be an emphatically funnily loud NO! No way would the US inspectional personnel when they hear about it and it get back to the Pentagon & Congress would send the Gerald Ford and the entire 6th fleet to Port Said.

On the MiG-29M/M2, yes, absolutely. But I would hope you're on the same page as I am and that is baffled at how they only ordered the standard R-77 and what appears to be the standard R-73 instead of the much-improved R-77-1 and R-74? If they only ordered the standard missiles with what really amounts to the MiG-35 without the best missiles it's capable of firing, then what would even motivate them to go to China for the PL-15 and have to perform the entire pylon & software/electrical connection? They didn't even order the medium/long-ranged R-27E?! I mean it boggles the mind. And if people will say "oh they got them they're just not showing them because of whatever reason". sorry, I don't believe it.

Is it possible or is the deal associated with a possible purchase of a Chinese fighter such as the J-10 or J-35?

J-10C or CY.......? No. Despite it seemingly being a terrific fighter and the Pakistani Air Force might be placing a second order to the first 25 they ordered and are almost all delivered but it's too much of a different component that what the EAF's plan seemed to be headed to. It was the Rafale, then more Rafales as it is proven and has an impeccable record which let's be honest, the J-10 doesn't and it's no fault of its own. It just hasn't faced any combat where it can show its AESA radar capability, or its sensor systems or mainly its EW suite compared to the proven mastery of SPECTRA. So we have those issues. For Pakistan it's perfect as it compliments the JF-17 very well.

We all loved it and got so excited and ran out to the nearest kiosk and stole lollypops when we heard of the possibility of the 24 Eurofighter Typhoon coming in the "never happened MEGA ITALIAN DEAL" because that would've been a much better commonality fit with the Rafale.

Regarding Egyptian Mig-29M/2....I always thought these things were lemons and the EAF should've gone for the J-10 from China and the Su-35E from the Russians...but what do I know??

"Lemons"? Noooo, no way, ma bro. Come to the Armed Forces thread and we talked a lot about them. You know Tom Cooper, right? Well, that donkey -- despite his anti-Arab leaning -- does speak mostly the truth about all topics related to the Arab/Israeli conflict and his comment I read in some Janes article or something was that the deal the EAF had with MiG corporation was to get the modified version of the MiG-29M/M2 which was actually the middle model of the MiG-29M & MiG-35 which the only differences was that the 29M doesn't have a built-in target designator but they provided 50 or so T-220 targeting pods that get mounted on the mid-belly starboard pylon along with a FLIR pod that also gets mounted on the opposite portside pylon to the T-220 pod. Not a huge difference but aggravating enough. The bigger and major problem is that the EAF was promised the Zhuk-AE AESA radar which is the major element of what makes the MiG-35 but they never finished developing it in time before the SMO began and they had to put it on hold. Meanwhile the EAF MiGs have the Zhuk-ME pulse doppler radar which is still a terrific radar and is in all the latest MiG-29s including the Indian naval MiG-29Ks and the UPGs I believe which they will eventually install their own, domestic Uttam AESA radar. Now that would be a TERRIFIC option for the EAF ESPECIALLY if the deal with the TEJAS works out because not only could they purchase or ToT the Uttam and replace the Zhuk-ME with it, but they would also have tremendous compatibility with the eventual fleet of Tejas. One of many reason I fully support the Tejas offer over the Korean KFC fried chicken. Just kidding I forgot what it's called it's 4:45 am right now lol.

On top of all of that, with the joint cooperation we have with the UAE and their EDGE weapons development, and we've seen our F-16s & Mirage 2000s loaded with AL-TARIQ glide bombs made by EDGE and who has just announced the same company's munitions integration? Yep, you guessed it ma bro, the TEJAS!

And if for some miracle by Allah (swt) that the 28 or 30 Su-35SEs that are still in storage in Russia as of August or September still with the Egyptian camo colors & Egyptian serial tail numbers somehow make it to Egypt as some form of relief from CAATSA because of all the mediation Sisi and EGY intelligence and the Egyptian Red Cresent are doing with getting aid into Gaza that they do show up, it would complete 85% of the plan that was drawn up, decided on and started to be implemented.

225 F-16s
54 Rafales
75 Tejas MK-1A with ToT possibly 100
46 MiG29M/M2 possibly another 50 to make them 100+/-
30 Su-35SE possibly an additional order of 30 to make them 60
Total with maximum numbers 539 not including all the 4th gens in storage,
What do you think ya Basha?

 

[sami_1]

There are sharp changes occurring now or several months ago that many observers may not notice

The visit of the Chinese delegation to the Arab Organization for Industrialization and Egypt
A high-level Chinese delegation headed by Mr. Zhu Qian, Chief Engineer of the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC)

And Mr. Liu Yu, Chairman of the Board of Directors of CATIC.

The K-8E was not upgrade to the level of the K-8NG version
Rather, it is much more complex and larger
The Chinese say that Egypt actually bought the J-10C plane in some published videos, so things are not just expectations

The other thing the Indo-Israeli-Gulf alliance to establish a logistical corridor and an industrial and commercial alliance that would essentially be opposed to the Egyptian Suez Canal projects. Also, the Indo-Israeli military alliance is stronger than any military cooperation with Egypt.

Israel wants 100,000 Indians to work in their service in the homes and farms that have lost Palestinian workers, and also to use a portion of them in the Israeli army under Indian sponsorship. This is nothing but an alliance against Egyptian, Jordanian, and Palestinian interests. Therefore, India will have a choice: either Egypt or Israel, and this will be reflected in any cooperation in the field. Weapons industry

The Gaza war made it clear that the West is destroying everything just for the sake of Israel’s interests and Israel’s continued presence in the Middle East. Even America itself refused to supply more GE-404 engines for an Indian order of 97 LCA TEJAS MK1A aircraft. Simply put, America does not want India to enter the international market to export fighters. It will also refuse to supply engines for export, which applies to many cooperation programs with South Korea, however
Any previous contracts that were signed will be completed, but new contracts will have multiple obstacles to implementing

Indeed, during the recent period, there were talks with Brazil in the field of aircraft maintenance and spare parts, especially Western helicopters
Brazilian offers for military cooperation

India offered the ASTRA & AKASHI, NAG missile to Egypt for production cooperation. Egypt asks every country to be a manufacturing center for export to Africa and the Middle East for the products that are contracted to be manufactured. It is not known how successful India is, as China entered forcefully to crush any Indian offers.

Egyptian contracts for WING LOONG 1D & WING LOONG 2 aircraft led to the emergence of advanced versions of these aircraft, whether in terms of increasing their capabilities in terms of ammunition load, range, or special equipment. The traditional copies exported by China are no longer available.

UPGRADED WING LOONG 2

The plane, WING LOONG 2, was sold after development to Egypt for a value of 10 million dollars, in contrast to the contracts signed with Morocco, Algeria, and the Emirates, simply because the volume of Egyptian developments and modifications was very large, and also the volume of ammunition was large, including production with a local license, the size of a deal for 76 aircraft. The large volume of deals simply led to

The same applies to the WING LOONG 1D plane, which was sold to Egypt for $2 million. We have all seen the modifications to the WING LOONG 1E version and the increase in its capacity in China. Now, newer Chinese engines have been provided, better than the Austrian ROTEX engines, with lower fuel consumption, as well as better propulsion capacity, which will provide better capabilities for aircraft of the WING LOONG family and the WING LOONG family. ASN-209/CH-91 and even the Pakistani plane GIDS Shahpar-2, in addition to providing systems with better specifications than the Zumr-II (EO/IR) multi-sensor turret.
Therefore, the sharp changes in alliances have an impact on trade exchanges, industrial and military cooperation between countries,

and Egypt has previously produced 120 F-7 aircraft and 120 F-6 aircraft, some of which were exported to countries such as Iraq and Sudan in the past, so repeating this matter is simple, as China will certainly not reject a deal. For example, 120 J-10C aircraft are sold through Egypt in the Middle East

If contracted, it will be a good addition to Egyptian helicopters and drones