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The Ahmadis of Algeria: the government’s most convenient security threat?

This is my last post on religious discussion:

The Holy Prophet Syedna Hazrat Muhammad (saw) states:

حَدَّثَنَا مُسَدَّدٌ، حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى، عَنْ شُعْبَةَ، عَنِ الْحَكَمِ، عَنْ مُصْعَبِ بْنِ سَعْدٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم خَرَجَ إِلَى تَبُوكَ، وَاسْتَخْلَفَ عَلِيًّا فَقَالَ أَتُخَلِّفُنِي فِي الصِّبْيَانِ وَالنِّسَاءِ قَالَ ‏ “‏ أَلاَ تَرْضَى أَنْ تَكُونَ مِنِّي بِمَنْزِلَةِ هَارُونَ مِنْ مُوسَى إِلاَّ أَنَّهُ لَيْسَ نَبِيٌّ بَعْدِي ‏”‏‏.‏ وَقَالَ أَبُو دَاوُدَ حَدَّثَنَا شُعْبَةُ عَنِ الْحَكَمِ سَمِعْتُ مُصْعَبًا‏.‏

Narrated Sa`d: Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) set out for Tabuk. appointing `Ali as his deputy (in Medina). `Ali said, “Do you want to leave me with the children and women?” The Prophet (ﷺ) said, “Will you not be pleased that you will be to me like Aaron to Moses? But there will be no prophet after me.” (Sahih al Bukhari Hadith #4416)

This hadith has to be looked into within its context. The Holy Prophet (saw) was speaking with Hazrat Ali (ra), while leaving him for a specific task and stated “You are unto me as Aaronaswas to Mosesas“. This hadith mentions Moses (as) and Aaron (as) because there was an incident when Moses (as) went too the Mount of Tur and he did not leave the area in the absence of a leader, and lefft his brother Aaron (as) who was a prophet, in charge during his absense to take care of the people. Now lets say the Holy Prophet (saw) had not said this, and left Ali (ra) in charge of his people, what would occur? It is obvious that there would be a misconception which would be created and people would think that perhaps the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw) has left Ali (ra) behind as a prophet by using the name of Moses (as) and Aaron (as). Therefore, to remove this misconception, the Holy Prophet (saw) said “La Nabiyya Ba’di” that you are not a prophet in my absense using the word ba’d in the context of Zarf Zaman. The word ba’di in this context clearly means temporary, rather than permanent absence, of Holy Prophet (saw) from Medina. Therefore, the meaning here is “in my temporary absense”. The word here can only refer to being beisde as Harun (as) did not live longer than Moses( as) and was his helper. The Holy Prophet (saw) made it clear, that there is no prophet during his absense to watch over the people. To assume that “after me” refers to “after my death” in this context, would make the comparison flawed since Aaron (as) was a prophet during the time of Moses (as), but did not survive and died before Moses (as).



The Fourth Khalif of the Ahmadiyya Jama'ah (rh) States:



”There is another Hadith that our opponents frequently quote to support their position. The Hadith reads: “Saeed Bin Al Musayyab reports on the authority of Aamir Bin Sa’ad Bin Abi Waqqas who reports on the authority of his father (Allah be pleased with them): The Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) said to Ali: ‘You are to me what Aaron was to Moses, except there is no prophet after me.’ Another ve rsion of the Hadith Al Sahi Bukhari reads: ’ . . . ..except that you are not a prophet.’ Still another version quoted by Masnad Ahmad Bin Hanbal reads: ’ …But do not become a prophet.’ (1. Bukhari: Kitab Al Fazail – Chapter Fazail, Ali Bin Abi Talib; 2. Muslim: Kitab Al Fazail; 3. Masnad Ahmad 331/l).

As the story goes, the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) was leaving for an expedition and appointed Hazrat Ali (ra) to act as Amir in Medina during his absence. Hazrat Ali (ra) was a great warrior and had accompanied the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) in all prior expeditions. For him to be left behind was very painful. He felt he would be deprived of the privilege of Jehad and that people may think the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) was displeased with him. So Hazrat Ali (ra) submitted to the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) “0 prophet of Allah, am I going to be left behind as Amir over women and children?” It was a subtle way of evoking the Holy Prophets (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) love for him. Thereupon, the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) answered: ‘0 Ali, why do you express this grief? This event has given you the same position in relation to me, as Aaron held in relation to Moses in his absence. You are to me what Aaron was to Moses. The difference is that you are not a prophet.’ This Hadith has been reported in different ways in Bukhari. The meaning is essentially the same.


Now, the present day Ulema would insist that in this Hadith the word ‘Ba’adee’ does not mean anything but the fact that there is no prophet after the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him). It has no relevance to the temporary absence of Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) from Medina.

Hazrat Shah Waliullah Mohaddes Dehlavi, universally acknowledged as the Mujaddid (reformer) of the 12th century and very well known to Muslims of the sub-continent and who is held in high esteem by these people, writes in Quratul Aineen Fi Tafseel Alshaikhain pg. 602: “It must be clearly understood that the object of this Hadith is to highlight the appointment of Hazrat Ali (Allah be pleased with him) to act in the place of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) when he was to be absent from Medina during his expedition to Tabuk. Also, to highlight Hazrat Ali’s resemblance to Hazrat Haroon (peace be on him) when Hazrat Musa (peace be on him) had journeyed to the Mount. It is to be noted that the word ‘Ba’adee’ (after me) here means ‘Ghairi’ (beside me). It does not mean after me in time.

As we read in the Holy Quran “Fa Maeen Yahdehe Mim Ba’adillah” “Who, then, will guide him other than Allah?“ (Ch. 45, v . 24). Here the word ‘Ba’adee’ has not been used in the sense of ‘after me’ as Hazrat Haroon (peace be on him) did not outlive Hazrat Musa (peace be on him) while Hazrat Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) lived after the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) to make this exception of ‘Ba’adee’ meaning ‘after me’ was therefore not appropriate.” What a powerful argument! Using the Holy Quran, Hazrat Shah Waliullah has put forth irrefutable evidence of use of ‘Ba’adee’ to mean ‘beside me’. Such arguments can only be put forth by righteous people who are enlightened with divine wisdom. They carry out a deep scrutiny and thorough investigation of the Hadith with singular love and devotion. These devout lovers of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) made genuine efforts to find out the real motive and meaning of his sayings. It was, in fact, the result of this devoted pursuit that Hazrat Shah Waliullah succeeded in adducing the arguments he put forth above.” (True meaning of Khatme Nabuwat, Pages 24-25)


Along with this the non Ahmadis are ignoring all the countless of Ahadith that prophesies a latter day prophet.

لَيْسَ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَهُ نَبِيٌّ – يَعْنِي عِيسَى – وَإِنَّهُ نَازِلٌ

Narrated Abu Hurayrah: The Prophet (ﷺ) said: There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus (as). He will descend.(Sunan Abi Dawud 4324)

He(saw) also stated:

نَبِيُّ اللَّهُ عِيسَى وَأَصْحَابُهُ حَتَّى يَكُونَ رَأْسُ الثَّوْرِ لأَحَدِهِمْ خَيْرًا مِنْ مِائَةِ دِينَارٍ لأَحَدِكُمُ الْيَوْمَ فَيَرْغَبُ نَبِيُّ اللَّهِ عِيسَى وَأَصْحَابُهُ فَيُرْسِلُ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهُمُ النَّغَفَ فِي رِقَابِهِمْ فَيُصْبِحُونَ فَرْسَى كَمَوْتِ نَفْسٍ وَاحِدَةٍ ثُمَّ يَهْبِطُنَبِيُّ اللَّهِ عِيسَىوَأَصْحَابُهُ إِلَى الأَرْضِ فَلاَ يَجِدُونَ فِي الأَرْضِ مَوْضِعَ شِبْرٍ إِلاَّ مَلأَهُ زَهَمُهُمْ وَنَتْنُهُمْ فَيَرْغَبُنَبِيُّ اللَّهِ عِيسَىوَأَصْحَابُهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ فَيُرْسِلُ اللَّهُ طَيْرًا كَأَعْنَاقِ الْبُخْتِ فَتَحْمِلُهُمْ فَتَطْرَحُهُمْ حَيْثُ شَاءَ اللَّهُ ثُمَّ يُرْسِلُ اللَّهُ مَطَرًا لاَ يَكُنُّ مِنْهُ بَيْتُ مَدَرٍ وَلاَ وَبَرٍ فَيَغْسِلُ الأَرْضَ حَتَّى يَتْرُكَهَا كَالزَّلَفَةِ ثُمَّ يُقَالُ لِلأَرْضِ أَنْبِتِي ثَمَرَتَكِ وَرُدِّي بَرَكَتَكِ ‏.‏ فَيَوْمَئِذٍ تَأْكُلُ الْعِصَابَةُ مِنَ الرُّمَّانَةِ وَيَسْتَظِلُّونَ بِقِحْفِهَا وَيُبَارَكُ فِي الرِّسْلِ حَتَّى أَنَّ اللِّقْحَةَ مِنَ الإِبِلِ لَتَكْفِي الْفِئَامَ مِنَ النَّاسِ وَاللِّقْحَةَ مِنَ الْبَقَرِ لَتَكْفِي الْقَبِيلَةَ مِنَ النَّاسِ وَاللِّقْحَةَ مِنَ الْغَنَمِ لَتَكْفِي الْفَخِذَ مِنَ النَّاسِ فَبَيْنَمَا هُمْ كَذَلِكَ إِذْ بَعَثَ اللَّهُ رِيحًا طَيِّبَةً فَتَأْخُذُهُمْ تَحْتَ آبَاطِهِمْ فَتَقْبِضُ رُوحَ كُلِّ مُؤْمِنٍ وَكُلِّ مُسْلِمٍ وَيَبْقَى شِرَارُ النَّاسِ يَتَهَارَجُونَ فِيهَا تَهَارُجَ الْحُمُرِ فَعَلَيْهِمْ تَقُومُ السَّاعَةُ ‏”‏ ‏.


There was once water there. Jesus and his companions would then be besieged here (at Tur, and they would be so much hard pressed) that the head of the ox would be dearer to them than one hundred dinars and Allah’s Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would supplicate Allah, Who would send to them insects (which would attack their necks) and in the morning they would perish like one single person. Allah’s Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would then come down to the earth and they would not find in the earth as much space as a single span which is not filled with their putrefaction and stench. Allah’s Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would then again beseech Allah, Who would send birds whose necks would be like those of Bactrian camels and they would carry them and throw them where God would will. Then Allah would send rain which no house of clay or (the tent of) camels’ hairs would keep out and it would wash away the earth until it could appear to be a mirror. Then the earth would be told to bring forth its fruit and restore its blessing and, as a result thereof, there would grow (such a big) pomegranate that a group of persons would be able to eat that, and seek shelter under its skin and milch cow would give so much milk that a whole party would be able to drink it. And the milch camel would give such (a large quantity of) milk that the whole tribe would be able to drink out of that and the milch sheep would give so much milk that the whole family would be able to drink out of that and at that time Allah would send a pleasant wind which would soothe (people) even under their armpits, and would take the life of every Muslim and only the wicked would survive who would commit adultery like asses and the Last Hour would come to them.(Sahih Muslim, 2937a)

Here that same latter day Promised Messiah(as) whom we know and believe is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad(as) has been given the title of a prophet four times. You are taking away one thing and running away with it and ignored the part of our belief regarding Syedna Isa (as). One cannot discuss the status of the founder of the Ahmadiyya jama'ah before discussing whether or not Syedna Isa (as) is alive or has passed away.

As for the second part of your post: The hadith of Bukhari,which is most often quoted by the non Ahmadi Muslims is as follows:



لاَ نَبِيَّ بَعْدِي



This hadith translates to there will be no prophet after me or besides me. This hadith in reality supports the Ahmadiyya viewpoint on prophethood. The word ba’di which literally means after me, has three main ways of interpretations according to the Arabic language. The first is used as a Zarf Makan, meaning it refers to something being after or behind something else (I.e, A car parked behind another car). It can also imply a physical absense of one from a specific area for a small period of absense or a long period of absence, meaning death. A second meaning which falls under Zarf Zaman, refers to the coming of something after its predecessor in time. There is also a third meaning of the word ba’d which is supported by the Qur’an, which refers to being in the opposition of something. Allah States:



تِلْكَ آيَاتُ اللَّهِ نَتْلُوهَا عَلَيْكَ بِالْحَقِّ ۖ فَبِأَيِّ حَدِيثٍ بَعْدَ اللَّهِ وَآيَاتِهِ يُؤْمِنُونَ {7}

“These are the Signs of Allah which We rehearse unto thee with truth. In what word, then, after rejecting that of Allah and His Signs will they believe?” (Chapter 45 Verse 7)



This ayah literally states that “In what word, then, After Allah and his signs will they believe?” However, it is clear that the word after here refers to “besides” and Allah has no ending.



Again Allah States:



أَفَرَأَيْتَ مَنِ اتَّخَذَ إِلَٰهَهُ هَوَاهُ وَأَضَلَّهُ اللَّهُ عَلَىٰ عِلْمٍ وَخَتَمَ عَلَىٰ سَمْعِهِ وَقَلْبِهِ وَجَعَلَ عَلَىٰ بَصَرِهِ غِشَاوَةً فَمَنْ يَهْدِيهِ مِنْ بَعْدِ اللَّهِ ۚ أَفَلَا تَذَكَّرُونَ {24}

“Hast thou seen him who conceives of his god according to his own fancy, and whom Allah has adjudged astray on basis of His knowledge, and whose ears and whose heart He has sealed up, and on whose eyes He has put a covering? Who, then, will guide him after Allah has condemned him? Will you not then heed?”(Chapter 45 Verse 24)



Here as well the word ba’d has a meaning of “besides Allah”. Using this definition of the word ba’d, it shows that there can be no prophet after the Holy Prophet Syedna Hazrat Muhammad (saw) who brings a teaching which contradicts and alters the Qur’an or the words of the Prophet (saw). If we were to say that the word ba’d is after me in time alone, then it would mean Allah also has an end according to the logic of the non Ahmadi Muslims, God Forbid. These verses simply show us that no one can guide a person aside from Allah, rather than Allah having an end. A Bukhari hadith which further supports the view of Ahmadi Muslims, showing how the Prophet Syedna Hazrat Muhammad (saw) had used this word as well, is as follows:



حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو الْيَمَانِ، أَخْبَرَنَا شُعَيْبٌ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ أَبِي حُسَيْنٍ، حَدَّثَنَا نَافِعُ بْنُ جُبَيْرٍ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ ـ رضى الله عنهما ـ قَالَ قَدِمَ مُسَيْلِمَةُ الْكَذَّابُ عَلَى عَهْدِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَجَعَلَ يَقُولُ إِنْ جَعَلَ لِي مُحَمَّدٌ الأَمْرَ مِنْ بَعْدِهِ تَبِعْتُهُ‏.‏ وَقَدِمَهَا فِي بَشَرٍ كَثِيرٍ مِنْ قَوْمِهِ، فَأَقْبَلَ إِلَيْهِ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَمَعَهُ ثَابِتُ بْنُ قَيْسِ بْنِ شَمَّاسٍ، وَفِي يَدِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قِطْعَةُ جَرِيدٍ، حَتَّى وَقَفَ عَلَى مُسَيْلِمَةَ فِي أَصْحَابِهِ فَقَالَ ‏”‏ لَوْ سَأَلْتَنِي هَذِهِ الْقِطْعَةَ مَا أَعْطَيْتُكَهَا، وَلَنْ تَعْدُوَ أَمْرَ اللَّهِ فِيكَ، وَلَئِنْ أَدْبَرْتَ لَيَعْقِرَنَّكَ اللَّهُ، وَإِنِّي لأَرَاكَ الَّذِي أُرِيتُ فِيكَ مَا رَأَيْتُ ‏”‏‏.‏ فَأَخْبَرَنِي أَبُو هُرَيْرَةَ، أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏”‏ بَيْنَمَا أَنَا نَائِمٌ رَأَيْتُ فِي يَدَىَّ سِوَارَيْنِ مِنْ ذَهَبٍ، فَأَهَمَّنِي شَأْنُهُمَا، فَأُوحِيَ إِلَىَّ فِي الْمَنَامِ أَنِ انْفُخْهُمَا، فَنَفَخْتُهُمَا فَطَارَا فَأَوَّلْتُهُمَا كَذَّابَيْنِ يَخْرُجَانِ بَعْدِي ‏”‏‏.‏ فَكَانَ أَحَدُهُمَا الْعَنْسِيَّ وَالآخَرُ مُسَيْلِمَةَ الْكَذَّابَ صَاحِبَ الْيَمَامَةِ‏.‏



Narrated Ibn Abbas: Musailama-al-Kadhdhab (i.e. the liar) came in the life-time of Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) with many of his people (to Medina) and said, “If Muhammad makes me his successor, I will follow him.” Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) went up to him with Thabit bin Qais bin Shams; and Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) was carrying a piece of a datepalm leaf in his hand. He stood before Musailama (and his companions) and said, “If you asked me even this piece (of a leaf), I would not give it to you. You cannot avoid the fate you are destined to, by Allah. If you reject Islam, Allah will destroy you. I think that you are most probably the same person whom I have seen in the dream.” Abu Huraira told me that Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ); said, “While I was sleeping, I saw (in a dream) two gold bracelets round my arm, and that worried me too much. Then I was instructed divinely in my dream, to blow them off and so I blew them off, and they flew away. I interpreted the two bracelets as symbols of two liars who would appear after me. And so one of them was Al-Ansi and the other was Musailama Al-Kadhdhab from Al-Yamama.”(Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Hadith #817)

In this hadith, the word Ba’di is used for two false prophets who both appeared in the time of the Holy Prophet (saw) rather than after him. It is used in the sense of being n opposition, against, or besides. This further makes it clear that these ahadith refer to a prophet coming against the shariah of Syedna Hazrat Muhammad (saw).


Lastly the ahadith tell us that the latter day Messiah would be a prophet. The Holy Prophet Syedna Hazrat Muhammad (saw) has made it clear that the messiah would indeed have the title of a Nabi. He (saw) states (This is the same hadith as posted above):



نَبِيُّ اللَّهُ عِيسَى وَأَصْحَابُهُ حَتَّى يَكُونَ رَأْسُ الثَّوْرِ لأَحَدِهِمْ خَيْرًا مِنْ مِائَةِ دِينَارٍ لأَحَدِكُمُ الْيَوْمَ فَيَرْغَبُ نَبِيُّ اللَّهِ عِيسَى وَأَصْحَابُهُ فَيُرْسِلُ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهُمُ النَّغَفَ فِي رِقَابِهِمْ فَيُصْبِحُونَ فَرْسَى كَمَوْتِ نَفْسٍ وَاحِدَةٍ ثُمَّ يَهْبِطُ نَبِيُّ اللَّهِ عِيسَى وَأَصْحَابُهُ إِلَى الأَرْضِ فَلاَ يَجِدُونَ فِي الأَرْضِ مَوْضِعَ شِبْرٍ إِلاَّ مَلأَهُ زَهَمُهُمْ وَنَتْنُهُمْ فَيَرْغَبُ نَبِيُّ اللَّهِ عِيسَى وَأَصْحَابُهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ فَيُرْ

“Jesus and his companions would then be besieged here (at Tur, and they would be so much hard pressed) that the head of the ox would be dearer to them than one hundred dinars and Allah’s Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would supplicate Allah, Who would send to them insects (which would attack their necks) and in the morning they would perish like one single person. Allah’s Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would then come down to the earth and they would not find in the earth as much space as a single span which is not filled with their putrefaction and stench. Allah’s Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would then again beseech Allah” (Sahih Muslim 2937a)



And The Holy Prophet (saw) States:



حَدَّثَنَا هُدْبَةُ بْنُ خَالِدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا هَمَّامُ بْنُ يَحْيَى، عَنْ قَتَادَةَ، عَنْ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنِ آدَمَ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ “‏ لَيْسَ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَهُ نَبِيٌّ – يَعْنِي عِيسَى – وَإِنَّهُ نَازِلٌ ‏.‏

Narrated Abu Hurayrah: The Prophet (ﷺ) said: There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus (as). He will descend.(Sunan Abi Dawud 4324)

Many more ahadith prove that the latter day messiah would indeed be a prophet, and these have already been quoted above in the section of “Reality of Prophethood from the Ahadith”.

The non Ahmadi Muslims also try claiming that the word “la” means all types of prophethood has ended. This is comletely false and has no basis at all from the Qur’an or the ahadith. The Holy Prophet (saw) has used a sentence which is extremely similar in regards to the Caesar and Chosroes. He (saw) states:



حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّزَّاقِ، أَخْبَرَنَا مَعْمَرٌ، عَنْ هَمَّامٍ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ “‏ هَلَكَ كِسْرَى ثُمَّ لاَ يَكُونُ كِسْرَى بَعْدَهُ، وَقَيْصَرٌ لَيَهْلِكَنَّ ثُمَّ لاَ يَكُونُ قَيْصَرٌ بَعْدَهُ، وَلَتُقْسَمَنَّ كُنُوزُهَا فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ ‏”‏‏.‏

Narrated Abu Huraira:The Prophet (ﷺ) said, “Khosrau will be ruined, and there will be no Khosrau after him, and Caesar will surely be ruined and there will be no Caesar after him, and you will spend their treasures in Allah’s Cause.” He called, “War is deceit'(Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Hadith #267)



However, it is clear that there were many Caesars and Chosroes after them. Again it is stated:



حَدَّثَنِي إِسْحَاقُ بْنُ يَزِيدَ الدِّمَشْقِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ حَمْزَةَ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنِي أَبُو عَمْرٍو الأَوْزَاعِيُّ، عَنْ عَبْدَةَ بْنِ أَبِي لُبَابَةَ، عَنْ مُجَاهِدِ بْنِ جَبْرٍ الْمَكِّيِّ، أَنَّ عَبْدَ اللَّهِ بْنَ عُمَرَ ـ رضى الله عنهما ـ كَانَ يَقُولُ لاَ هِجْرَةَ بَعْدَ الْفَتْحِ‏.‏

Narrated Mujahid bin Jabir Al-Makki:`Abdullah bin `Umar used to say, “There is no more Hijrah (i.e. migration) after the Conquest of Mecca.”(Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Hadith #239)



However, we know that there were much more migrations after the conquest of Mecca. This hadith being used for ending all prophethood would not make sense and once again the non Ahmadi Muslims are ignoring the prophecies of the latter day Messiah.

And as mentioned before, you have not answered the second part of my original post regarding the death of Hazrat Isa (as). Now I know religious discussions are not allowed on this forum and I have veered away from my own initial goal of not discussing religion, but since I do not believe you have ever spoken to an Ahmadi before, I did not want you to get information about our beliefs second hand. Rest is up to you.
Our prophet was the last one my friend and your تفسیر بالرای is a great sin.

Our prophet (PBUH) is the last repeat this with yourself and believe in it.

Quran clearly says that he is the last one and if he wasn't, we couldn't consider Islam as the most complete religion of all times which approves all of the past religions as one religion and never denies Christianity or Juda as false religions. Islam completes them and removes forges done by Kuffar in those religions.

You are out of both Sunni and Shia concepts with this logic !
 
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Our prophet was the last one my friend and your تفسیر بالرای is a great sin.

Our prophet (PBUH) is the last repeat this with yourself and believe in it.

Quran clearly says that he is the last one and if he wasn't, we couldn't consider Islam as the most complete religion of all times which approves all of the past religions as one religion and never denies Christianity or Juda as false religions. Islam completes them and removes forges done by Kuffar in those religions.

I have already my beliefs above, I do need to explain anything further. Islam is indeed the complete religion for all times. The Shariah of the Holy prophet (saw) is the last Shariah. If you want to discuss more, this forum isn't the best place. I have already posted more than I normally do about this above.

You are out of both Sunni and Shia concepts with this logic !

I have never claimed to be Sunni or Shia. But I do have a long list Non Ahmadi Ulama from centuries before who's concept is same as ours.
 
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This is my last post on religious discussion:

The Holy Prophet Syedna Hazrat Muhammad (saw) states:

حَدَّثَنَا مُسَدَّدٌ، حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى، عَنْ شُعْبَةَ، عَنِ الْحَكَمِ، عَنْ مُصْعَبِ بْنِ سَعْدٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم خَرَجَ إِلَى تَبُوكَ، وَاسْتَخْلَفَ عَلِيًّا فَقَالَ أَتُخَلِّفُنِي فِي الصِّبْيَانِ وَالنِّسَاءِ قَالَ ‏ “‏ أَلاَ تَرْضَى أَنْ تَكُونَ مِنِّي بِمَنْزِلَةِ هَارُونَ مِنْ مُوسَى إِلاَّ أَنَّهُ لَيْسَ نَبِيٌّ بَعْدِي ‏”‏‏.‏ وَقَالَ أَبُو دَاوُدَ حَدَّثَنَا شُعْبَةُ عَنِ الْحَكَمِ سَمِعْتُ مُصْعَبًا‏.‏

Narrated Sa`d: Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) set out for Tabuk. appointing `Ali as his deputy (in Medina). `Ali said, “Do you want to leave me with the children and women?” The Prophet (ﷺ) said, “Will you not be pleased that you will be to me like Aaron to Moses? But there will be no prophet after me.” (Sahih al Bukhari Hadith #4416)

This hadith has to be looked into within its context. The Holy Prophet (saw) was speaking with Hazrat Ali (ra), while leaving him for a specific task and stated “You are unto me as Aaronaswas to Mosesas“. This hadith mentions Moses (as) and Aaron (as) because there was an incident when Moses (as) went too the Mount of Tur and he did not leave the area in the absence of a leader, and lefft his brother Aaron (as) who was a prophet, in charge during his absense to take care of the people. Now lets say the Holy Prophet (saw) had not said this, and left Ali (ra) in charge of his people, what would occur? It is obvious that there would be a misconception which would be created and people would think that perhaps the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw) has left Ali (ra) behind as a prophet by using the name of Moses (as) and Aaron (as). Therefore, to remove this misconception, the Holy Prophet (saw) said “La Nabiyya Ba’di” that you are not a prophet in my absense using the word ba’d in the context of Zarf Zaman. The word ba’di in this context clearly means temporary, rather than permanent absence, of Holy Prophet (saw) from Medina. Therefore, the meaning here is “in my temporary absense”. The word here can only refer to being beisde as Harun (as) did not live longer than Moses( as) and was his helper. The Holy Prophet (saw) made it clear, that there is no prophet during his absense to watch over the people. To assume that “after me” refers to “after my death” in this context, would make the comparison flawed since Aaron (as) was a prophet during the time of Moses (as), but did not survive and died before Moses (as).



The Fourth Khalif of the Ahmadiyya Jama'ah (rh) States:



”There is another Hadith that our opponents frequently quote to support their position. The Hadith reads: “Saeed Bin Al Musayyab reports on the authority of Aamir Bin Sa’ad Bin Abi Waqqas who reports on the authority of his father (Allah be pleased with them): The Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) said to Ali: ‘You are to me what Aaron was to Moses, except there is no prophet after me.’ Another ve rsion of the Hadith Al Sahi Bukhari reads: ’ . . . ..except that you are not a prophet.’ Still another version quoted by Masnad Ahmad Bin Hanbal reads: ’ …But do not become a prophet.’ (1. Bukhari: Kitab Al Fazail – Chapter Fazail, Ali Bin Abi Talib; 2. Muslim: Kitab Al Fazail; 3. Masnad Ahmad 331/l).

As the story goes, the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) was leaving for an expedition and appointed Hazrat Ali (ra) to act as Amir in Medina during his absence. Hazrat Ali (ra) was a great warrior and had accompanied the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) in all prior expeditions. For him to be left behind was very painful. He felt he would be deprived of the privilege of Jehad and that people may think the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) was displeased with him. So Hazrat Ali (ra) submitted to the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) “0 prophet of Allah, am I going to be left behind as Amir over women and children?” It was a subtle way of evoking the Holy Prophets (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) love for him. Thereupon, the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) answered: ‘0 Ali, why do you express this grief? This event has given you the same position in relation to me, as Aaron held in relation to Moses in his absence. You are to me what Aaron was to Moses. The difference is that you are not a prophet.’ This Hadith has been reported in different ways in Bukhari. The meaning is essentially the same.


Now, the present day Ulema would insist that in this Hadith the word ‘Ba’adee’ does not mean anything but the fact that there is no prophet after the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him). It has no relevance to the temporary absence of Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) from Medina.

Hazrat Shah Waliullah Mohaddes Dehlavi, universally acknowledged as the Mujaddid (reformer) of the 12th century and very well known to Muslims of the sub-continent and who is held in high esteem by these people, writes in Quratul Aineen Fi Tafseel Alshaikhain pg. 602: “It must be clearly understood that the object of this Hadith is to highlight the appointment of Hazrat Ali (Allah be pleased with him) to act in the place of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) when he was to be absent from Medina during his expedition to Tabuk. Also, to highlight Hazrat Ali’s resemblance to Hazrat Haroon (peace be on him) when Hazrat Musa (peace be on him) had journeyed to the Mount. It is to be noted that the word ‘Ba’adee’ (after me) here means ‘Ghairi’ (beside me). It does not mean after me in time.

As we read in the Holy Quran “Fa Maeen Yahdehe Mim Ba’adillah” “Who, then, will guide him other than Allah?“ (Ch. 45, v . 24). Here the word ‘Ba’adee’ has not been used in the sense of ‘after me’ as Hazrat Haroon (peace be on him) did not outlive Hazrat Musa (peace be on him) while Hazrat Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) lived after the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) to make this exception of ‘Ba’adee’ meaning ‘after me’ was therefore not appropriate.” What a powerful argument! Using the Holy Quran, Hazrat Shah Waliullah has put forth irrefutable evidence of use of ‘Ba’adee’ to mean ‘beside me’. Such arguments can only be put forth by righteous people who are enlightened with divine wisdom. They carry out a deep scrutiny and thorough investigation of the Hadith with singular love and devotion. These devout lovers of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) made genuine efforts to find out the real motive and meaning of his sayings. It was, in fact, the result of this devoted pursuit that Hazrat Shah Waliullah succeeded in adducing the arguments he put forth above.” (True meaning of Khatme Nabuwat, Pages 24-25)


Along with this the non Ahmadis are ignoring all the countless of Ahadith that prophesies a latter day prophet.

لَيْسَ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَهُ نَبِيٌّ – يَعْنِي عِيسَى – وَإِنَّهُ نَازِلٌ

Narrated Abu Hurayrah: The Prophet (ﷺ) said: There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus (as). He will descend.(Sunan Abi Dawud 4324)

He(saw) also stated:

نَبِيُّ اللَّهُ عِيسَى وَأَصْحَابُهُ حَتَّى يَكُونَ رَأْسُ الثَّوْرِ لأَحَدِهِمْ خَيْرًا مِنْ مِائَةِ دِينَارٍ لأَحَدِكُمُ الْيَوْمَ فَيَرْغَبُ نَبِيُّ اللَّهِ عِيسَى وَأَصْحَابُهُ فَيُرْسِلُ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهُمُ النَّغَفَ فِي رِقَابِهِمْ فَيُصْبِحُونَ فَرْسَى كَمَوْتِ نَفْسٍ وَاحِدَةٍ ثُمَّ يَهْبِطُنَبِيُّ اللَّهِ عِيسَىوَأَصْحَابُهُ إِلَى الأَرْضِ فَلاَ يَجِدُونَ فِي الأَرْضِ مَوْضِعَ شِبْرٍ إِلاَّ مَلأَهُ زَهَمُهُمْ وَنَتْنُهُمْ فَيَرْغَبُنَبِيُّ اللَّهِ عِيسَىوَأَصْحَابُهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ فَيُرْسِلُ اللَّهُ طَيْرًا كَأَعْنَاقِ الْبُخْتِ فَتَحْمِلُهُمْ فَتَطْرَحُهُمْ حَيْثُ شَاءَ اللَّهُ ثُمَّ يُرْسِلُ اللَّهُ مَطَرًا لاَ يَكُنُّ مِنْهُ بَيْتُ مَدَرٍ وَلاَ وَبَرٍ فَيَغْسِلُ الأَرْضَ حَتَّى يَتْرُكَهَا كَالزَّلَفَةِ ثُمَّ يُقَالُ لِلأَرْضِ أَنْبِتِي ثَمَرَتَكِ وَرُدِّي بَرَكَتَكِ ‏.‏ فَيَوْمَئِذٍ تَأْكُلُ الْعِصَابَةُ مِنَ الرُّمَّانَةِ وَيَسْتَظِلُّونَ بِقِحْفِهَا وَيُبَارَكُ فِي الرِّسْلِ حَتَّى أَنَّ اللِّقْحَةَ مِنَ الإِبِلِ لَتَكْفِي الْفِئَامَ مِنَ النَّاسِ وَاللِّقْحَةَ مِنَ الْبَقَرِ لَتَكْفِي الْقَبِيلَةَ مِنَ النَّاسِ وَاللِّقْحَةَ مِنَ الْغَنَمِ لَتَكْفِي الْفَخِذَ مِنَ النَّاسِ فَبَيْنَمَا هُمْ كَذَلِكَ إِذْ بَعَثَ اللَّهُ رِيحًا طَيِّبَةً فَتَأْخُذُهُمْ تَحْتَ آبَاطِهِمْ فَتَقْبِضُ رُوحَ كُلِّ مُؤْمِنٍ وَكُلِّ مُسْلِمٍ وَيَبْقَى شِرَارُ النَّاسِ يَتَهَارَجُونَ فِيهَا تَهَارُجَ الْحُمُرِ فَعَلَيْهِمْ تَقُومُ السَّاعَةُ ‏”‏ ‏.


There was once water there. Jesus and his companions would then be besieged here (at Tur, and they would be so much hard pressed) that the head of the ox would be dearer to them than one hundred dinars and Allah’s Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would supplicate Allah, Who would send to them insects (which would attack their necks) and in the morning they would perish like one single person. Allah’s Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would then come down to the earth and they would not find in the earth as much space as a single span which is not filled with their putrefaction and stench. Allah’s Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would then again beseech Allah, Who would send birds whose necks would be like those of Bactrian camels and they would carry them and throw them where God would will. Then Allah would send rain which no house of clay or (the tent of) camels’ hairs would keep out and it would wash away the earth until it could appear to be a mirror. Then the earth would be told to bring forth its fruit and restore its blessing and, as a result thereof, there would grow (such a big) pomegranate that a group of persons would be able to eat that, and seek shelter under its skin and milch cow would give so much milk that a whole party would be able to drink it. And the milch camel would give such (a large quantity of) milk that the whole tribe would be able to drink out of that and the milch sheep would give so much milk that the whole family would be able to drink out of that and at that time Allah would send a pleasant wind which would soothe (people) even under their armpits, and would take the life of every Muslim and only the wicked would survive who would commit adultery like asses and the Last Hour would come to them.(Sahih Muslim, 2937a)

Here that same latter day Promised Messiah(as) whom we know and believe is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad(as) has been given the title of a prophet four times. You are taking away one thing and running away with it and ignored the part of our belief regarding Syedna Isa (as). One cannot discuss the status of the founder of the Ahmadiyya jama'ah before discussing whether or not Syedna Isa (as) is alive or has passed away.

As for the second part of your post: The hadith of Bukhari,which is most often quoted by the non Ahmadi Muslims is as follows:



لاَ نَبِيَّ بَعْدِي



This hadith translates to there will be no prophet after me or besides me. This hadith in reality supports the Ahmadiyya viewpoint on prophethood. The word ba’di which literally means after me, has three main ways of interpretations according to the Arabic language. The first is used as a Zarf Makan, meaning it refers to something being after or behind something else (I.e, A car parked behind another car). It can also imply a physical absense of one from a specific area for a small period of absense or a long period of absence, meaning death. A second meaning which falls under Zarf Zaman, refers to the coming of something after its predecessor in time. There is also a third meaning of the word ba’d which is supported by the Qur’an, which refers to being in the opposition of something. Allah States:



تِلْكَ آيَاتُ اللَّهِ نَتْلُوهَا عَلَيْكَ بِالْحَقِّ ۖ فَبِأَيِّ حَدِيثٍ بَعْدَ اللَّهِ وَآيَاتِهِ يُؤْمِنُونَ {7}

“These are the Signs of Allah which We rehearse unto thee with truth. In what word, then, after rejecting that of Allah and His Signs will they believe?” (Chapter 45 Verse 7)



This ayah literally states that “In what word, then, After Allah and his signs will they believe?” However, it is clear that the word after here refers to “besides” and Allah has no ending.



Again Allah States:



أَفَرَأَيْتَ مَنِ اتَّخَذَ إِلَٰهَهُ هَوَاهُ وَأَضَلَّهُ اللَّهُ عَلَىٰ عِلْمٍ وَخَتَمَ عَلَىٰ سَمْعِهِ وَقَلْبِهِ وَجَعَلَ عَلَىٰ بَصَرِهِ غِشَاوَةً فَمَنْ يَهْدِيهِ مِنْ بَعْدِ اللَّهِ ۚ أَفَلَا تَذَكَّرُونَ {24}

“Hast thou seen him who conceives of his god according to his own fancy, and whom Allah has adjudged astray on basis of His knowledge, and whose ears and whose heart He has sealed up, and on whose eyes He has put a covering? Who, then, will guide him after Allah has condemned him? Will you not then heed?”(Chapter 45 Verse 24)



Here as well the word ba’d has a meaning of “besides Allah”. Using this definition of the word ba’d, it shows that there can be no prophet after the Holy Prophet Syedna Hazrat Muhammad (saw) who brings a teaching which contradicts and alters the Qur’an or the words of the Prophet (saw). If we were to say that the word ba’d is after me in time alone, then it would mean Allah also has an end according to the logic of the non Ahmadi Muslims, God Forbid. These verses simply show us that no one can guide a person aside from Allah, rather than Allah having an end. A Bukhari hadith which further supports the view of Ahmadi Muslims, showing how the Prophet Syedna Hazrat Muhammad (saw) had used this word as well, is as follows:



حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو الْيَمَانِ، أَخْبَرَنَا شُعَيْبٌ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ أَبِي حُسَيْنٍ، حَدَّثَنَا نَافِعُ بْنُ جُبَيْرٍ، عَنِ ابْنِ عَبَّاسٍ ـ رضى الله عنهما ـ قَالَ قَدِمَ مُسَيْلِمَةُ الْكَذَّابُ عَلَى عَهْدِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم فَجَعَلَ يَقُولُ إِنْ جَعَلَ لِي مُحَمَّدٌ الأَمْرَ مِنْ بَعْدِهِ تَبِعْتُهُ‏.‏ وَقَدِمَهَا فِي بَشَرٍ كَثِيرٍ مِنْ قَوْمِهِ، فَأَقْبَلَ إِلَيْهِ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم وَمَعَهُ ثَابِتُ بْنُ قَيْسِ بْنِ شَمَّاسٍ، وَفِي يَدِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قِطْعَةُ جَرِيدٍ، حَتَّى وَقَفَ عَلَى مُسَيْلِمَةَ فِي أَصْحَابِهِ فَقَالَ ‏”‏ لَوْ سَأَلْتَنِي هَذِهِ الْقِطْعَةَ مَا أَعْطَيْتُكَهَا، وَلَنْ تَعْدُوَ أَمْرَ اللَّهِ فِيكَ، وَلَئِنْ أَدْبَرْتَ لَيَعْقِرَنَّكَ اللَّهُ، وَإِنِّي لأَرَاكَ الَّذِي أُرِيتُ فِيكَ مَا رَأَيْتُ ‏”‏‏.‏ فَأَخْبَرَنِي أَبُو هُرَيْرَةَ، أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏”‏ بَيْنَمَا أَنَا نَائِمٌ رَأَيْتُ فِي يَدَىَّ سِوَارَيْنِ مِنْ ذَهَبٍ، فَأَهَمَّنِي شَأْنُهُمَا، فَأُوحِيَ إِلَىَّ فِي الْمَنَامِ أَنِ انْفُخْهُمَا، فَنَفَخْتُهُمَا فَطَارَا فَأَوَّلْتُهُمَا كَذَّابَيْنِ يَخْرُجَانِ بَعْدِي ‏”‏‏.‏ فَكَانَ أَحَدُهُمَا الْعَنْسِيَّ وَالآخَرُ مُسَيْلِمَةَ الْكَذَّابَ صَاحِبَ الْيَمَامَةِ‏.‏



Narrated Ibn Abbas: Musailama-al-Kadhdhab (i.e. the liar) came in the life-time of Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) with many of his people (to Medina) and said, “If Muhammad makes me his successor, I will follow him.” Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) went up to him with Thabit bin Qais bin Shams; and Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) was carrying a piece of a datepalm leaf in his hand. He stood before Musailama (and his companions) and said, “If you asked me even this piece (of a leaf), I would not give it to you. You cannot avoid the fate you are destined to, by Allah. If you reject Islam, Allah will destroy you. I think that you are most probably the same person whom I have seen in the dream.” Abu Huraira told me that Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ); said, “While I was sleeping, I saw (in a dream) two gold bracelets round my arm, and that worried me too much. Then I was instructed divinely in my dream, to blow them off and so I blew them off, and they flew away. I interpreted the two bracelets as symbols of two liars who would appear after me. And so one of them was Al-Ansi and the other was Musailama Al-Kadhdhab from Al-Yamama.”(Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Hadith #817)

In this hadith, the word Ba’di is used for two false prophets who both appeared in the time of the Holy Prophet (saw) rather than after him. It is used in the sense of being n opposition, against, or besides. This further makes it clear that these ahadith refer to a prophet coming against the shariah of Syedna Hazrat Muhammad (saw).


Lastly the ahadith tell us that the latter day Messiah would be a prophet. The Holy Prophet Syedna Hazrat Muhammad (saw) has made it clear that the messiah would indeed have the title of a Nabi. He (saw) states (This is the same hadith as posted above):



نَبِيُّ اللَّهُ عِيسَى وَأَصْحَابُهُ حَتَّى يَكُونَ رَأْسُ الثَّوْرِ لأَحَدِهِمْ خَيْرًا مِنْ مِائَةِ دِينَارٍ لأَحَدِكُمُ الْيَوْمَ فَيَرْغَبُ نَبِيُّ اللَّهِ عِيسَى وَأَصْحَابُهُ فَيُرْسِلُ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهُمُ النَّغَفَ فِي رِقَابِهِمْ فَيُصْبِحُونَ فَرْسَى كَمَوْتِ نَفْسٍ وَاحِدَةٍ ثُمَّ يَهْبِطُ نَبِيُّ اللَّهِ عِيسَى وَأَصْحَابُهُ إِلَى الأَرْضِ فَلاَ يَجِدُونَ فِي الأَرْضِ مَوْضِعَ شِبْرٍ إِلاَّ مَلأَهُ زَهَمُهُمْ وَنَتْنُهُمْ فَيَرْغَبُ نَبِيُّ اللَّهِ عِيسَى وَأَصْحَابُهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ فَيُرْ

“Jesus and his companions would then be besieged here (at Tur, and they would be so much hard pressed) that the head of the ox would be dearer to them than one hundred dinars and Allah’s Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would supplicate Allah, Who would send to them insects (which would attack their necks) and in the morning they would perish like one single person. Allah’s Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would then come down to the earth and they would not find in the earth as much space as a single span which is not filled with their putrefaction and stench. Allah’s Apostle, Jesus, and his companions would then again beseech Allah” (Sahih Muslim 2937a)



And The Holy Prophet (saw) States:



حَدَّثَنَا هُدْبَةُ بْنُ خَالِدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا هَمَّامُ بْنُ يَحْيَى، عَنْ قَتَادَةَ، عَنْ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنِ آدَمَ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ، أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ “‏ لَيْسَ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَهُ نَبِيٌّ – يَعْنِي عِيسَى – وَإِنَّهُ نَازِلٌ ‏.‏

Narrated Abu Hurayrah: The Prophet (ﷺ) said: There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus (as). He will descend.(Sunan Abi Dawud 4324)

Many more ahadith prove that the latter day messiah would indeed be a prophet, and these have already been quoted above in the section of “Reality of Prophethood from the Ahadith”.

The non Ahmadi Muslims also try claiming that the word “la” means all types of prophethood has ended. This is comletely false and has no basis at all from the Qur’an or the ahadith. The Holy Prophet (saw) has used a sentence which is extremely similar in regards to the Caesar and Chosroes. He (saw) states:



حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّزَّاقِ، أَخْبَرَنَا مَعْمَرٌ، عَنْ هَمَّامٍ، عَنْ أَبِي هُرَيْرَةَ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَالَ ‏ “‏ هَلَكَ كِسْرَى ثُمَّ لاَ يَكُونُ كِسْرَى بَعْدَهُ، وَقَيْصَرٌ لَيَهْلِكَنَّ ثُمَّ لاَ يَكُونُ قَيْصَرٌ بَعْدَهُ، وَلَتُقْسَمَنَّ كُنُوزُهَا فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ ‏”‏‏.‏

Narrated Abu Huraira:The Prophet (ﷺ) said, “Khosrau will be ruined, and there will be no Khosrau after him, and Caesar will surely be ruined and there will be no Caesar after him, and you will spend their treasures in Allah’s Cause.” He called, “War is deceit'(Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Hadith #267)



However, it is clear that there were many Caesars and Chosroes after them. Again it is stated:



حَدَّثَنِي إِسْحَاقُ بْنُ يَزِيدَ الدِّمَشْقِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ حَمْزَةَ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنِي أَبُو عَمْرٍو الأَوْزَاعِيُّ، عَنْ عَبْدَةَ بْنِ أَبِي لُبَابَةَ، عَنْ مُجَاهِدِ بْنِ جَبْرٍ الْمَكِّيِّ، أَنَّ عَبْدَ اللَّهِ بْنَ عُمَرَ ـ رضى الله عنهما ـ كَانَ يَقُولُ لاَ هِجْرَةَ بَعْدَ الْفَتْحِ‏.‏

Narrated Mujahid bin Jabir Al-Makki:`Abdullah bin `Umar used to say, “There is no more Hijrah (i.e. migration) after the Conquest of Mecca.”(Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Hadith #239)



However, we know that there were much more migrations after the conquest of Mecca. This hadith being used for ending all prophethood would not make sense and once again the non Ahmadi Muslims are ignoring the prophecies of the latter day Messiah.

And as mentioned before, you have not answered the second part of my original post regarding the death of Hazrat Isa (as). Now I know religious discussions are not allowed on this forum and I have veered away from my own initial goal of not discussing religion, but since I do not believe you have ever spoken to an Ahmadi before, I did not want you to get information about our beliefs second hand. Rest is up to you.

Again besmirching the good name of Islam and Muslims by associating heretical views and interpretations.

Defintion:

Zindeeq
Someone who claims to be a Muslim from his tongue, but proposes heretical interpretations of Islamic commandments.

http://www.banuri.edu.pk/readquestion/murtad-kafir-or-zindeek-ki-tareef/-0001-11-30

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The article is definitely a propaganda piece. Qadiyaniat is NOT a branch of Islam and Qadiyanis are NOT a sect of Muslims. Why do these people try to make an appearance every now and then on defence.pk and try to associate themselves with Islam and Muslims? We have nothing to do with them.
No Ahmadi asked permission from you to be considered Muslim. Nobody including you can ever take away their self identity. They are Muslims because they say they are Muslims and a whole lot of countries and people accept it.
 
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No Ahmadi asked permission from you to be considered Muslim. Nobody including you can ever take away their self identity. They are Muslims because they say they are Muslims and a whole lot of countries and people accept it.

If a bunch of non-Muslims consider them Muslims, vs. all Muslims considering them non-Muslims, then I must say they are following a very non-Muslim religion.

I have no authority to grant anyone permission. I am only making sure this British conspiracy cannot use this forum to propagate their false propaganda and distort the true image of Islam.
 
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