The Absurdity of Bringing Afghan 'Collaborators' to the West!

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

 

[DJ_Viper]

This topic needs to be brought up and brought up so that people and history should know the absurdity of bringing those Afghans to the West because they collaborated with the West. Here are my thoughts. And @DJ_Viper in the loop.
1) Firstly, I don't think anyone should blame the Afghans for collaborating with anyone--whether near or far--who would give the hapless Afghans some sustenance. France was a superpower by the start of WW 2 and still the Nazis managed to find enough for years to make the Vichy Regime.
2) Most Afghans--and perhaps 'most' is a subjective term-- would flee to anywhere outside of Afghanistan given a chance. Do note that there had been millions of Afghans living in Pakistan and Iran and there are still a million+ Afghans living in Pakistan since early 1980s despite multiple changes of govt in Afghanistan. In short, it seems like a large chunk of Afghans, regardless of who rules Afghanistan, would rather be out of Afghanistan.
3) In light of #2, why is it so surprising that Afghans would try to get on board any flight out of Afghanistan to anywhere? The West is far too enticing for the Afghans to ignore--heck, tons of Afghans don't want to leave a poor country like Pakistan for decades! Have we not seen tons of Afghans fleeing Afghanistan at great risk trying to end in Europe via Greece?? No Taliban were needed then: They were fleeing from the 'Democratically Elected' Afghanistan.
4) In light of #3: Why has been the narrative that Afghans were fleeing the Taliban taken such a firm hold? Are people so blind, unanalytical?? As one of the Taliban official said: Given similar opportunity, the airport in India's New Delhi would be swamped with people wanting to flee to the West. So WHY there has not been a counter narrative??
5) Now, coming to final point: Why should special treatment and Special Immigrant Visa (SIV) be given to those who served NATO because of financial compulsions??? I think people did what they did not because of any love for the West or any hatred for the Taliban. They did it to just to survive in the wretched country Afghanistan. And yet so much hoopla was made in the West about helping the 'collaborators'. Guys: If Lucifer himself was to give sustenance to the Afghans the Afghans would have collaborated!!

The end result is that tons of thousands of collaborators are making to the West. And they are not shining examples of 'liberalism' by a long shot. And they probably have a fair mix of very dangerous, radical elements. But who cares?? If they were not brought to the West then the stupid PR machine in the Western countries would go crazy based on political divides. An example: Both Republicans and Democrats wanted the SIV people into America. It was pure political opportunism by Republicans. But if, and reports are saying, a couple of dozens of the unvetted Afghans are dangerous, then Democrats would pay a price while Republican would reap political benefits.

We live in a screwed up world!!

I remember you telling me about this write up a while ago and I appreciate you remembering to make me a part of this post. Thank you.

I agree with everything you are saying. But there are multiple dimensions at work here and many you identified already. Remember, in the Western world, the new immigrants always make the lowest tier of the workforce for many years (minus the Indians as they 90% of them come in getting paid more than Americans for IT work). Second, having SIV people, it's something the US has always done. It's like an unsaid rule, no matter how you see it, if Taliban or other fractions knew these people who worked for the US or allied forces, these support staff would've been killed. This support and risk should be rewarded above just money. Secondly, the US and the West very well knows these people go a big step above looking for a stable and better life. So that's how this works. It's not just about temporary money. It's beyond. Then, this is political. Take a look at the EU, how Germany, at times France and in the past even a small country like the Netherlands had made racial and immigrants related issues. The political ping pong has to be played.

Lastly and my pray, I hope our men and women in law enforcement vetted these people out properly. I'd hate to see any bad guys slip through. Thanks again.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

Here is the thing the westerners haven't figured out just yet.. ''If you see a non-practicing Muslim run away from them but if you see a practicing Muslim run towards them for shelter'' But they have been doing it the opposed way and you may ask why??? because they are people who don't reason.

The non-practicing muslims across the west are one of the most vile creatures on God's earth and they commit alot of unnecessary atrocites. There is no in between for this people they are either ''GOOD'' practicing muslims upholding a code of conduct which makes their actions honorable and noble or they completely let go of that and once that happens you will find them to be the worst of humanity

100% accurate. Many of the refugees are vile characters, have come across them myself. West assumes them to be good because it wrongly fights an ideological war against Islam and practising Muslims. Believing, practising Muslims already believe in freedom, God's freedom. The concept of freedom is Abrahamic.

 

[Meengla]

It's like an unsaid rule, no matter how you see it, if Taliban or other fractions knew these people who worked for the US or allied forces, these support staff would've been killed.

I created this thread because this topic needed/needs dedicated discussion about how absurd it is and how absurdly hyped the 'protect those who helped us' has been.
But I disagree with you on the part quoted above. I don't think Taliban were going to go off on a killing spree. They have a certain code of honor which they adhere to by and large. And besides, they needed the educated workforce anyway. I'd go as far to say that very few the collaborators would have been killed--probably fewer than what the French Resistance persecuted after Paris was liberated from the Nazis and certainly far fewer than what the North Vietnamese Army persecuted after the Fall of Saigon.

The world must know this: Afghan 'leadership' since at least mid 1970s has been leaning on overt foreign help to either stay in power or to grab power. And Afghan civilians have been leaving their country on one excuse or another regardless of the govt in place in Kabul . The latest exodus should be seen in light of the irrefutable historic trend in that wretched country. And yet... all I saw in the Western press was the 'plight' of the Afghans fleeing the brutal Taliban!! How much idiotic, politically driven, this kind of 'journalism' has been?? How could someone not see that, with American $$$ going away, it would be a disaster for those whose gravy train of 2 decades is falling off a cliff?? Even if a 'liberal' govt was Sweden were to replace the Americans but with the empty treasury like the Taliban, people would still flee! Fleeing Afghanistan is Afghanis' best hobby!!

PS. Contrary to the stupid, self-destructive Western press, I see Indians have been more pragmatic about not only NOT accepting large Afghan evacuees but Indians also instinctly know that these 100,000+ Afghans in the West would eventually contribute to the Islamic presence in the West which would be counter to the Indian interests.

 

[FuturePAF]

I can't believe the hype created in the Western media about bringing those to 'safety' who 'put their lives at risk' from the clutches of the Taliban!! As if Afghans had many options! The whole damn country is one basket case of beggary and their leadership is always looking to have someone invade and support the population and of course the leaders! Soviets were fleeced and then Americans were fleeced. At one point, I think 90% of Afghan 'economy' was dependent on American money. And when Americans left they were supporting from 40-70% Afghan economy. No wonder Afghans are upset now: The free money that employed them-- from their Presidents to their Peons is gone.
It is so obviously stupid. Stupid, stupid, stupid. A farce which had been so hyped up in the Western media over the last 3-4 weeks.

The West owned these collaborators nothing!! Not a damn thing. They were paid for their services and often those services involved killing other Afghans!!! While I can't blame a poor Afghan for wanting just to survive, it is the absurdity of the Western hype that is mind boggling.

Well--if really tens of thousands have fled to the West then chances are some really bad apples have also made it out of Afghanistan.

The analogy of the fall of Cambodian government 5 days after the withdrawal of US troops in April 1975 is most similar to what has happened in Afghanistan. At least in Cambodia, one of their leaders, a prince had the foresight to express his views to the American Ambassador as he was leaving in a letter, which really says it all.

https://flic.kr/p/6SX7c7

Afghanistan: Lessons From Cambodia

There have been many references to the U.S. withdrawal from Vietnam as an important historical analogy for today’s Afghanistan. A better analogy is Cambodia.

thediplomat.com

a Dutch couple when interviewed on Dutch TV compared the Afghans that worked with the west to Nazi Collaborators

5Pillars's tweet - "A Dutch couple protesting against the resettlement of Afghan refugees to the Netherlands compared the new arrivals from Afghanistan to traitorous "Dutch Nazis". " - Trendsmap

Detailed Tweet Analytics for 5Pillars's tweet -

www.trendsmap.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1433783398930305060

 

[Goritoes]

If there happen even a knife attack in USA, and a Afghan refugee is found in it then it will be a bad time for Muslims in America as hate crimes will rise, God forbid if there happen a more larger attack, again may Allah forbade that things will be horrific...

 

[FuturePAF]

If there happen even a knife attack in USA, and a Afghan refugee is found in it then it will be a bad time for Muslims in America as hate crimes will rise, God forbid if there happen a more larger attack, again may Allah forbade that things will be horrific...

Muslims yes (because many people won’t care about specifics) but Afghans and Afghan Refugees will specifically get a bad name as trouble makers amongst people that know they are Afghans, and Republicans will use it to blame Biden.

 

[Goritoes]

Muslims yes (because many people won’t care about specifics) but Afghans and Afghan Refugees will specifically get a bad name as trouble makers amongst people that know they are Afghans, and Republicans will use it to blame Biden.

Yaar we are talking about a people who attacked Sikhs, thinking they are Muslims after 9/11... you think they know the difference between a Afghan or Pakistani or once again a Sikh? they see Brown, Turban and beard they attack... Republicans will eat that, and the right wing will rile up the masses of White Supremacists who will be going once again to Mosques full locked n loaded, I just fear that amount of Coverage an attack gets in America specially when a Brown Muslim is involved is dangerous for American public, especially in the environment we are seeing in America lately...

 

[khansaheeb]

This topic needs to be brought up and brought up so that people and history should know the absurdity of bringing those Afghans to the West because they collaborated with the West. Here are my thoughts. And @DJ_Viper in the loop.
1) Firstly, I don't think anyone should blame the Afghans for collaborating with anyone--whether near or far--who would give the hapless Afghans some sustenance. France was a superpower by the start of WW 2 and still the Nazis managed to find enough for years to make the Vichy Regime.
2) Most Afghans--and perhaps 'most' is a subjective term-- would flee to anywhere outside of Afghanistan given a chance. Do note that there had been millions of Afghans living in Pakistan and Iran and there are still a million+ Afghans living in Pakistan since early 1980s despite multiple changes of govt in Afghanistan. In short, it seems like a large chunk of Afghans, regardless of who rules Afghanistan, would rather be out of Afghanistan.
3) In light of #2, why is it so surprising that Afghans would try to get on board any flight out of Afghanistan to anywhere? The West is far too enticing for the Afghans to ignore--heck, tons of Afghans don't want to leave a poor country like Pakistan for decades! Have we not seen tons of Afghans fleeing Afghanistan at great risk trying to end in Europe via Greece?? No Taliban were needed then: They were fleeing from the 'Democratically Elected' Afghanistan.
4) In light of #3: Why has been the narrative that Afghans were fleeing the Taliban taken such a firm hold? Are people so blind, unanalytical?? As one of the Taliban official said: Given similar opportunity, the airport in India's New Delhi would be swamped with people wanting to flee to the West. So WHY there has not been a counter narrative??
5) Now, coming to final point: Why should special treatment and Special Immigrant Visa (SIV) be given to those who served NATO because of financial compulsions??? I think people did what they did not because of any love for the West or any hatred for the Taliban. They did it to just to survive in the wretched country Afghanistan. And yet so much hoopla was made in the West about helping the 'collaborators'. Guys: If Lucifer himself was to give sustenance to the Afghans the Afghans would have collaborated!!

The end result is that tons of thousands of collaborators are making to the West. And they are not shining examples of 'liberalism' by a long shot. And they probably have a fair mix of very dangerous, radical elements. But who cares?? If they were not brought to the West then the stupid PR machine in the Western countries would go crazy based on political divides. An example: Both Republicans and Democrats wanted the SIV people into America. It was pure political opportunism by Republicans. But if, and reports are saying, a couple of dozens of the unvetted Afghans are dangerous, then Democrats would pay a price while Republican would reap political benefits.

We live in a screwed up world!!

They will feel at home in the US we have enough crazy fu(ks here already from all around the globe in all shapes and colours. -" And they probably have a fair mix of very dangerous, radical elements. "

 

[FuturePAF]

Yaar we are talking about a people who attacked Sikhs, thinking they are Muslims after 9/11... you think they know the difference between a Afghan or Pakistani or once again a Sikh? they see Brown, Turban and beard they attack... Republicans will eat that, and the right wing will rile up the masses of White Supremacists who will be going once again to Mosques full locked n loaded, I just fear that amount of Coverage an attack gets in America specially when a Brown Muslim is involved is dangerous for American public, especially in the environment we are seeing in America lately...

your right, a lot of people, especially once riled up will see all brown people as the same.

 

[Meengla]

a Dutch couple when interviewed on Dutch TV compared the Afghans that worked with the west to Nazi Collaborators

5Pillars's tweet - "A Dutch couple protesting against the resettlement of Afghan refugees to the Netherlands compared the new arrivals from Afghanistan to traitorous "Dutch Nazis". " - Trendsmap

Detailed Tweet Analytics for 5Pillars's tweet -

www.trendsmap.com

https://twitter.com/x/status/1433783398930305060

Great find. And to the point! At the end of this video, the man nailed it: No one forced these Afghans to work!
The interviewer was towing the usual line: Shouldn't we help the Afghans because they worked for Netherlands? Idiots!!
Let's hope no radicals made it out of Afghanistan. People will not tolerate more vans mowing down people, more knives attack, or worse. Afghans have seen nothing but warfare for at least 40 years and that has to change people's minds.

 

[DJ_Viper]

I created this thread because this topic needed/needs dedicated discussion about how absurd it is and how absurdly hyped the 'protect those who helped us' has been.
But I disagree with you on the part quoted above. I don't think Taliban were going to go off on a killing spree. They have a certain code of honor which they adhere to by and large. And besides, they needed the educated workforce anyway. I'd go as far to say that very few the collaborators would have been killed--probably fewer than what the French Resistance persecuted after Paris was liberated from the Nazis and certainly far fewer than what the North Vietnamese Army persecuted after the Fall of Saigon.

I'll get back to writing a response to this post later but here's for you. When a regime runs a nation. a lot can happen that goes without the media attention. We ALL know how media is controlled in almost 99% of the nations in question. These are the reasons why any nation would want to ensure safety of the people who went out of their way to help them. It's nothing new, this has been going on throughout the human history.

The Taliban tracked down and killed 4 Afghan counterterrorism agents, in one case pulling out all their fingernails, report says

The dead men worked out of the National Directorate of Security (NDS) and had been trained by US and British forces, The Sunday Times said.

www.yahoo.com

 

[SQ8]

Just dreading the day one of these “refugees” does some horrible act and messes it up for all muslims in the US.

 

[Dalit]

This topic needs to be brought up and brought up so that people and history should know the absurdity of bringing those Afghans to the West because they collaborated with the West. Here are my thoughts. And @DJ_Viper in the loop.
1) Firstly, I don't think anyone should blame the Afghans for collaborating with anyone--whether near or far--who would give the hapless Afghans some sustenance. France was a superpower by the start of WW 2 and still the Nazis managed to find enough for years to make the Vichy Regime.
2) Most Afghans--and perhaps 'most' is a subjective term-- would flee to anywhere outside of Afghanistan given a chance. Do note that there had been millions of Afghans living in Pakistan and Iran and there are still a million+ Afghans living in Pakistan since early 1980s despite multiple changes of govt in Afghanistan. In short, it seems like a large chunk of Afghans, regardless of who rules Afghanistan, would rather be out of Afghanistan.
3) In light of #2, why is it so surprising that Afghans would try to get on board any flight out of Afghanistan to anywhere? The West is far too enticing for the Afghans to ignore--heck, tons of Afghans don't want to leave a poor country like Pakistan for decades! Have we not seen tons of Afghans fleeing Afghanistan at great risk trying to end in Europe via Greece?? No Taliban were needed then: They were fleeing from the 'Democratically Elected' Afghanistan.
4) In light of #3: Why has been the narrative that Afghans were fleeing the Taliban taken such a firm hold? Are people so blind, unanalytical?? As one of the Taliban official said: Given similar opportunity, the airport in India's New Delhi would be swamped with people wanting to flee to the West. So WHY there has not been a counter narrative??
5) Now, coming to final point: Why should special treatment and Special Immigrant Visa (SIV) be given to those who served NATO because of financial compulsions??? I think people did what they did not because of any love for the West or any hatred for the Taliban. They did it to just to survive in the wretched country Afghanistan. And yet so much hoopla was made in the West about helping the 'collaborators'. Guys: If Lucifer himself was to give sustenance to the Afghans the Afghans would have collaborated!!

The end result is that tons of thousands of collaborators are making to the West. And they are not shining examples of 'liberalism' by a long shot. And they probably have a fair mix of very dangerous, radical elements. But who cares?? If they were not brought to the West then the stupid PR machine in the Western countries would go crazy based on political divides. An example: Both Republicans and Democrats wanted the SIV people into America. It was pure political opportunism by Republicans. But if, and reports are saying, a couple of dozens of the unvetted Afghans are dangerous, then Democrats would pay a price while Republican would reap political benefits.

We live in a screwed up world!!

You should read the sentiments of average Joe and Western far right extremists on various news/social media sites. Watch Fox news coverage and how the far right is responding to a wave of Afghan refugee heading towards US shores.

Over here in The Netherlands there is an extreme housing problem. Local youngsters are dealing with housing problems for years now. The last thing Dutch want is heaps of Afghans.

If anyone thinks that Afghans will be welcomed in European and US capitals they need a reality check.

 

[FuturePAF]

You should read the sentiments of average Joe and Western far right extremists on various news/social media sites. Watch Fox news coverage and how the far right is responding to a wave of Afghan refugee heading towards US shores.

Over here in The Netherlands there is an extreme housing problem. Local youngsters are dealing with housing problems for years now. The last thing Dutch want is heaps of Afghans.

If anyone thinks that Afghans will be welcomed in European and US capitals they need a reality check.

There is one YouTuber that should be checked out to see what the current “mainstream” right wing thinks. The interesting thing in this interview is how much they depend on the Indians to translate and explain Pakistan to them, so we can tell how warped their views have gotten. Interesting tidbits on accusations that the Russians were trying to resupply the Ghani forces through Iran but the Talibs were able to move quicker and cut them off.