The 4 th PAK FA T50 prototype completes first long range flight

[Abingdonboy]

Concept and equipment differences - FGFA was conceived to be a twin pilot operated fighter, while PAK FA has a single pilot, also India will have the usual indigenous + Israeli + French avionics on board - similar to the MKI.

Mate the twin-seat idea has been dropped.

Does anyone tell me the major differences between the FGFA and PAK FA?

@illusion8 has said it all. Basically the FGFA is a "MKIsed" version of the PAK-FA with Indian specific software and hardware sourced from the usual players- India, Israel and France. By all accounts the FGFA will be quite a bit more advanced than the PAK-FA.

 

[illusion8]

Mate the twin-seat idea has been dropped.

That's why I said "it was", but Abing it's not clear yet if IAF will fall back on the twin seater or not.

 

[Abingdonboy]

That's why I said "it was", but Abing it's not clear yet if IAF will fall back on the twin seater or not.

Right but I highly doubt they will- the Russians and HAL have clearly briefed the IAF on the costs and benefits of the twin-seat variant and the IAF has assessed the costs outweigh the benefits and that with the computers and tech on board the need for a second pilot/WSO is minimal.

 

[illusion8]

Right but I highly doubt they will- the Russians and HAL have clearly briefed the IAF on the costs and benefits of the twin-seat variant and the IAF has assessed the costs outweigh the benefits and that with the computers and tech on board the need for a second pilot/WSO is minimal.

The IAF would want to consider a twin pilot concept as giving better results or not. The FGFA is a huge plane with complex functionalities, plus it's quite an expensive piece of equipment - though the design changes will both be expensive, highly delaying and probably would be shelved.

 

[Abingdonboy]

The IAF would want to consider a twin pilot concept as giving better results or not. The FGFA is a huge plane with complex functionalities, plus it's quite an expensive piece of equipment - though the design changes will both be expensive, highly delaying and probably would be shelved.

Like I said a cost benefit analysis has clearly been conducted by the IAF and it has found a twin-seat version to be more trouble than it is worth. It is not even about the financial costs to develop the variant but the fact the twin-seat version would also detrimentally affect the range and stealth abilities of the FGFA. With the tech now allowing for a "virtual" WSO the need for a WSO is minimal - look at every other 5th gen fighter in production/development- they are all single seaters.

 

[jaiind]

Its a bad A$$$....

 

[Arzamas 16]

Mate the twin-seat idea has been dropped.



@illusion8 has said it all. Basically the FGFA is a "MKIsed" version of the PAK-FA with Indian specific software and hardware sourced from the usual players- India, Israel and France. By all accounts the FGFA will be quite a bit more advanced than the PAK-FA.

More advanced than the current flying prototype sure, more advanced than production SU-XX the RUAF is getting don't bet on it.

 

[Abingdonboy]

More advanced than the current flying prototype sure, more advanced than production SU-XX the RUAF is getting don't bet on it.

Why is that? The FGFA is a custimised version of the PAK-FA/SU-XX so by nature it will be more advanced otherwise why is India spending money to reinvent the wheel with customisation? Are you claiming the FGFA will be a downgraded version of the PAK-FA and that the Russians will hold back tech from the side that is investing BILLIONS in the project?



In the same way the SU-30MKI is superior to the standard SU-27/30 and this lead to the RUAF purchasing the SU-30SM.

 

[SQ8]

The concept for this fighter still is very different from the F-22.
Unlike the F-22 that is truly undetectable and shaped for all aspect stealth.. and designed to engage and kill the enemy BEFORE it even knows its there..the design of the PAK-FA reflects the philosophy to be able to get close enough to the enemy to engage them.
Even in heavy ECM environments..

So while the F-22 is designed from the outset to kill without being seen... the PAK-FA seems to be designed to beat the philosophy to get in as close as it can to these assets by way of low frontal RCS and engage using its Passive weapons or otherwise.
A way to force a merge and be able to use its high-end maneuverability to kill.
Sort of like sneaking past the cannons and getting in close enough to use the pistols.

 

[Arzamas 16]

Why is that? The FGFA is a custimised version of the PAK-FA/SU-XX so by nature it will be more advanced otherwise why is India spending money to reinvent the wheel with customisation? Are you claiming the FGFA will be a downgraded version of the PAK-FA and that the Russians will hold back tech from the side that is investing BILLIONS in the project?



In the same way the SU-30MKI is superior to the standard SU-27/30 and this lead to the RUAF purchasing the SU-30SM.

That is purely an assumption on your part not based on any fact, Russian avionics industry has progressed quite a lot since the days of MKI, we are now developing our second generation AESA for PAK FA and a DAS like system similar to the one employed on F-35, i did not say FGFA is downgraded version, but superior NO.

Compering MKI to the standard Su-27/30 is extremely flawed because basic Su-30 technology is well over 20 years old, thats compering the the avionics of Mig-15 to the one of Mig-21 and bragging about that it much better, and SU-30SM is 100% Russian, there not much as a foreign bolt in it, that alone should tell that the days of superior European avionics are over. In fact we are leaving the Europeans behind in many areas, we already left them in the dust when it comes to engine technology, that fact is there only one other country who lead us in that area and that's the US nobody else.

 

[Abingdonboy]

That is purely an assumption on your part not based on any fact, Russian avionics industry has progressed quite a lot since the days of MKI, we are now developing our second generation AESA for PAK FA and a DAS like system similar to the one employed on F-35, i did not say FGFA is downgraded version, but superior NO.

Compering MKI to the standard Su-27/30 is extremely flawed because basic Su-30 technology is well over 20 years old, thats compering the the avionics of Mig-15 to the one of Mig-21 and bragging about that it much better, and SU-30SM is 100% Russian, there not much as a foreign bolt in it, that alone should tell that the days of superior European avionics are over. In fact we are leaving the Europeans behind in many areas, we already left them in the dust when it comes to engine technology, that fact is there only one other country who lead us in that area and that's the US nobody else.

Well if the FGFA is purely a customised PAK-FA with certain compontants sourced from the likes of India,France and Israel- why has India specified it wants the FGFA and not just gone for the standard PAK-FA if the FGFA is no better?


The FGFA will simply have certain specific improvements ie maybe the HUD (maybe), maybe the MFDs, maybe some avionics, mission computers etc not major differences. The FGFA will still use the exceptional PAK-FA as its base and most of the hardware will remain Russian and cutting edge.


+ the SU-30SM features French and Indian avionics/computers AFAIK, I can't find the link right now but there was news of Russia ordering certain electronics from India for their SMs a little while back.

 

[Arzamas 16]

Well if the FGFA is purely a customised PAK-FA with certain compontants sourced from the likes of India,France and Israel- why has India specified it wants the FGFA and not just gone for the standard PAK-FA if the FGFA is no better?


The FGFA will simply have certain specific improvements ie maybe the HUD (maybe), maybe the MFDs, maybe some avionics, mission computers etc not major differences. The FGFA will still use the exceptional PAK-FA as its base and most of the hardware will remain Russian and cutting edge.


+ the SU-30SM features French and Indian avionics/computers AFAIK, I can't find the link right now but there was news of Russia ordering certain electronics from India for their SMs a little while back.

Three reasons, one is that Indian requirements are different than the one for the RUAF, two India wants more freedom to choose, and does not want to be 100% dependent on Russia for any single weapon system, three India wants to develop its own aviation industry.

The point still stands we have mostly achieved party with the Europeans when comes to avionics,
and with the amount money Putin is pouring into our aviation sector we set to surpass them( If we haven't already)

 

[Yogi]

That is purely an assumption on your part not based on any fact, Russian avionics industry has progressed quite a lot since the days of MKI, we are now developing our second generation AESA for PAK FA and a DAS like system similar to the one employed on F-35, i did not say FGFA is downgraded version, but superior NO.

Compering MKI to the standard Su-27/30 is extremely flawed because basic Su-30 technology is well over 20 years old, thats compering the the avionics of Mig-15 to the one of Mig-21 and bragging about that it much better, and SU-30SM is 100% Russian, there not much as a foreign bolt in it, that alone should tell that the days of superior European avionics are over. In fact we are leaving the Europeans behind in many areas, we already left them in the dust when it comes to engine technology, that fact is there only one other country who lead us in that area and that's the US nobody else.

Here u go :

Russia buys Indian computers for their Su-30 | militarytechcooperations

Russian Air Force will purchase the India the radar computer equipment for personal use Su -30 | Global News

 

[Hassan Guy]

I wish there was like a single engine variant of this fighter jet so we could actually afford it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_PAK_FA#Other_versions

 

[CBU-105]

I wish there was like a single engine variant of this fighter jet so we could actually afford it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_PAK_FA#Other_versions

it would still be subject to availability.