The 1965 Indo-Pak war

[arihant]

what the fudge? sooo?? is this relevant to 65 war?
didnt PAF face almost 10-1 odds? and still kicked IAF's @ss?

This is current stats and not the earlier.

I didn't mention who kicked whom. I just provided stats.

Ok, as you are starting your language, let me end it. Didn't your Chief has to run towards other countries for purchase of additional aircraft within week. You were at that time even unable to protect Lahore, although some mercy came which saved whole Lahore. Your objective was to get Kashmir which you failed. On actual ground you lost 1840 sq km of land and gain some 545 sq km. So just using rough language don't make your situation win. You have to prove in battle.

 

[eastwatch]

No, but india should be far more cautious before lending a helping hand for the creation of a nation like Bangladesh next time around.

BD is not your fat*er's creation. Rather, you should be thankful to us to lend you our hands so that you have won a single decisive war in the last thousand years. Remember, what your Indira Gandhi said, "Hajaar Saalo ka Badla----." She could claim that because we supported you.

You should come to us and kowtow us for that only win. Win another war against Pakistan single handedly and then boast. Do not make bullshit statements any more and take your hands off our territories. You are the only regional terrorist country. You terrorize even your own citizens by your JAT PAT culture. Waiting to see when India will get another big slapping on its face.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

This is current stats and not the earlier.

I didn't mention who kicked whom. I just provided stats.

Ok, as you are starting your language, let me end it. Didn't your Chief has to run towards other countries for purchase of additional aircraft within week.

lol talking about Chiefs... lol... good thing that you brought up..
and btw... you do know states placed heavy sanctions and embargo on pakistan during and after the war?? no spares means your planes cant fly for which indians bloodly took claim of shooting them down..
and of course.. as a 120 or so fighters fleet and after the war PAF needed planes from china on quick base because IAF already had 10-1 numerical and technical superiority and were also buying Migs hunters gnats su-7s etc...

here is one of the quotes pakdef.info has researched on print media.

"The Chief of Indian Air Force could no longer ensure the safety of Indian air space. A well known Indian journalist, Mr Frank Moraes, in a talk from All-india radio, also admitted that IAF had suffered severe losses and it was no use hiding the fact and India should be prepared for more losses...."

Indonesian Herald
September 11, 1965.

You were at that time even unable to protect Lahore, although some mercy came which saved whole Lahore. Your objective was to get Kashmir which you failed. On actual ground you lost 1840 sq km of land and gain some 545 sq km. So just using rough language don't make your situation win. You have to prove in battle.

another wild gibbering piece of ...... and lol you talk of providing "FACTS"...

During 1965 war, India's General Chaudri ordered his troops to march on Sialkot and Lahore - jauntily inviting his officers to join him for drinks that evening in lahore Gymkhana. He didn;t reckon on the Pakistani troops.

"The first Indian regiment that found itself face to face with pakistanis didn't get clobbered," said a report in Washington DC, America. "They just turned and ran, leving all of their equipment, artillery supplies and even extra clothing and supplies behind".

 

[eastwatch]

This is current stats and not the earlier.

I didn't mention who kicked whom. I just provided stats.

Ok, as you are starting your language, let me end it. Didn't your Chief has to run towards other countries for purchase of additional aircraft within week. You were at that time even unable to protect Lahore, although some mercy came which saved whole Lahore. Your objective was to get Kashmir which you failed. On actual ground you lost 1840 sq km of land and gain some 545 sq km. So just using rough language don't make your situation win. You have to prove in battle.

Pakistan had only 120 aircrafts against India's 1000. So, why do you make it an issue that Pakistan went for purchasing more aircrafts? By the way, if Pakistan was after Kashmir, then India was also after Lahore. Your General invited reporters to meet him in Jimkhana club next evening. See below, it was very famous in those days:

The then Indian chief of army staff Joyanto Nath Chowdhuri had said: 'I'll have a bada (large) peg in the Lahore Gymkhana.'

So, if Pakistan failed to get you out of your illegal occupation of Kashmir, you also failed to capture Lahore and drink soda. Also, do not forget that the East Bengal Regiment had received the most number of galantry awards in that 1965 war by repulsing all the Indian attacks in Khemkaran sector.

 

[luoshan]

what the fudge? sooo?? is this relevant to 65 war?
didnt PAF face almost 10-1 odds? and still kicked IAF's @ss?

Any link to support that??
In 1965 India was only twice as big as combined Pakistan. Also, India had to allocate majority of its military assets on long and treacherous Indo-Chinese border since India had just fought & lost a bitter border war with China. Pakistan had no such compulsions and could employ 100% of military assets against India.

One more casualty of the 1965 war was the martial races theory.
The 1965 war also stared casting doubts in the martial races theory propagated by the Pakistan military rulers as a propaganda tool to convince Pakistanis that they were stronger than India. As per this theory, One Pakistani Muslim soldier = 10 Indian Hindu soldiers. This was accepted without any questions and so deeply ingrained in the Pakistani military psyche that it was part of the Pakistans military doctrine. All new recruits were drilled with this doctrine. After 1971, there is hardly any talk about the martial races theory

 

[hack]

what the fudge? sooo?? is this relevant to 65 war?
didnt PAF face almost 10-1 odds? and still kicked IAF's @ss?

How did Pakistan win in 65...what did they achieve?Did Pakistan win more land..what was end result as Pakistan initiated the war surely with goals in mind.?

 

[luoshan]

How did Pakistan win in 65...what did they achieve?Did Pakistan win more land..what was end result as Pakistan initiated the war surely with goals in mind.?

If 1965 war ended with victory for Pakistan, how come the military dictator of Pakistan General Ayub Khan was forced to give up power after the war???

 

[arihant]

If 1965 war ended with victory for Pakistan, how come the military dictator of Pakistan General Ayub Khan was forced to give up power after the war???

There is difference in India, Pakistan and China when you see the knowledge.

In India, we were taught that India lost war against China and India was never prepared about war against China. They did mention about Forward policy but they never deeply released what is Forward Policy.

In Pakistan, whole story of wars was manipulated to satisfy ego. They were told that they won almost all wars.

In China, no idea. As there is no democracy chance of censored news is more.

See, war is won when you have achieve objectives set before the war. Pakistan was having objective of getting Kashmir, which they did fail. While for India, capturing Lahore was not full fledged objective and was just short term military objective to put divert of Pak Military in Lahore from other areas.

 

[Khajur]

BD is not your fat*er's creation. Rather, you should be thankful to us to lend you our hands so that you have won a single decisive war in the last thousand years. Remember, what your Indira Gandhi said, "Hajaar Saalo ka Badla----." She could claim that because we supported you.

You should come to us and kowtow us for that only win. Win another war against Pakistan single handedly and then boast. Do not make bullshit statements any more and take your hands off our territories. You are the only regional terrorist country. You terrorize even your own citizens by your JAT PAT culture. Waiting to see when India will get another big slapping on its face.

If u think east pakistan could have been liberated without direct indian intervention,u are grossly mistaken.we made the vital difference to ur struggle.

U can even ask our pakistani friend "Growler" here if he believes that the east pakistanis could have manage to secure their independence from pakistan on their own with any indian assistance???
I'm sure he gonna give an honest answer.


I can give the examples of LTTE who ferocious struggle died down after decades old fighting with Srilankan army or even kashmir's insurgency with the moral and material support from outside.

Do u honestly believe Mukthi Bahini struggle could have survived much stronger pakistani army any longer than any longer LTTE did ananist Srilanka??

Its not like we were begging u guys to give us a chance to fight pakistan,on the very contrary ,its ur millions of refugges who flooded our lands, much of who still live in india even now ,forcing us to interven aganist the wishes and explict threats of punitive action of the mighty USA,China and we risked our own security and shed the blood of our soldiers to a create new Bangladesh nation.

Never i wish to remind u of our sacrifies for the creation Bangladesh, its ur complely ungrateful hostile attitude and absurd assertions aganist india forced me to remind u that the Bangladesh whose pity border disputes u constantly harping on this board and making unsolicited remarks in a threating voice would certainly have been non existence if not for valiant india endeavours.


"what your Indira Gandhi said, "Hajaar Saalo ka Badla----." She could claim that because we supported you"

LOl,give me some proof that IG ever said that BS,
besides i dont know aout this number "Hajaar Saal" came from??
And see, history didnt change us ... but i know some ppl whose identities and societies were changed for ever.

 

[M_Saint]

Any link to support that??
In 1965 India was only twice as big as combined Pakistan. Also, India had to allocate majority of its military assets on long and treacherous Indo-Chinese border since India had just fought & lost a bitter border war with China. Pakistan had no such compulsions and could employ 100% of military assets against India.

One more casualty of the 1965 war was the martial races theory.
The 1965 war also stared casting doubts in the martial races theory propagated by the Pakistan military rulers as a propaganda tool to convince Pakistanis that they were stronger than India. As per this theory, One Pakistani Muslim soldier = 10 Indian Hindu soldiers. This was accepted without any questions and so deeply ingrained in the Pakistani military psyche that it was part of the Pakistans military doctrine. All new recruits were drilled with this doctrine. After 1971, there is hardly any talk about the martial races theory

I got sick and tired of these shallow-bubonic chanakya's marathon lies and couldn't resist anymore on writing something about it. If your grand daddy Nehru didn't write in his 'Discovery of India', how the myth of 'Martial race' was discovered in his empire then listen up, it was neither Pakistani army nor Ahmed Shah Abdali invented that bravadoes supremacy but your daddy 'UNGREJ' was. And by their definition, if Punjabis and Pathans were martial then Sikh, Rajputh, North Indian Jat and Gorkha also fell in that catagory. So, who were you trying to fool here? BTW it was Mohammad, who let Habshi Billal to call Azan and freed slaves thus concept of martial or non-martial & Amir or Fakir were non-existence in Islam at its birth while crowning human beings. So, don't throw segragator cow-dung at us as your types are the ones that have been presevering it for centuries.

 

[grey boy 2]

There is difference in India, Pakistan and China when you see the knowledge.

In India, we were taught that India lost war against China and India was never prepared about war against China. They did mention about Forward policy but they never deeply released what is Forward Policy.

In Pakistan, whole story of wars was manipulated to satisfy ego. They were told that they won almost all wars.

In China, no idea. As there is no democracy chance of censored news is more.

See, war is won when you have achieve objectives set before the war. Pakistan was having objective of getting Kashmir, which they did fail. While for India, capturing Lahore was not full fledged objective and was just short term military objective to put divert of Pak Military in Lahore from other areas.

This thread is about the 1965 Indo-Pak war,

It had nothing to do with China, unless you are interesting to talk

about 1962 China-indo war!

And yea; democracy with a caste system. Incredible India!

 

[toxic_pus]

BD is not your fat*er's creation. Rather, you should be thankful to us to lend you our hands so that you have won a single decisive war in the last thousand years. Remember, what your Indira Gandhi said, "Hajaar Saalo ka Badla----." She could claim that because we supported you.

You should come to us and kowtow us for that only win. Win another war against Pakistan single handedly and then boast. Do not make bullshit statements any more and take your hands off our territories. You are the only regional terrorist country. You terrorize even your own citizens by your JAT PAT culture. Waiting to see when India will get another big slapping on its face.

There is no denying the fact that if the bangladeshis hadn't risen in revolt against Pakistan, it wouldn't have been possible for India to pull a Bangladesh on Pakistan.

That being said, your rejection, of India's role in liberation of Bangladesh, with a hand wave, is nothing short of intellectual treason. Leaving aside, India's role in training the Muktijoddhas and assisting them with safe refuge and finance, do you really believe it would have been too difficult for Pakistan to subdue the rebellion. How hard would it have been for Pakistan to load its ships with Pak soldiers, offload them on the shores of East Pakistan and let them loose on Bangladeshis.

They would have kicked the rebellion out of your azz, had it not been for India, taking active part in the liberation war. That tied up the Pak in west, leaving east to fend for itself (not that the east put any fight worthy of a 'martial race') and for you to make the best out of the situation.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Any link to support that??
In 1965 India was only twice as big as combined Pakistan. Also, India had to allocate majority of its military assets on long and treacherous Indo-Chinese border since India had just fought & lost a bitter border war with China. Pakistan had no such compulsions and could employ 100% of military assets against India.

any link to support what? oh boy you guys are so deluded and brained washed that even north koreans would laugh at you guys.. you guys are taught to not except the reality but to deny it with their own twisted ego satisfying stories.
funny thing about you guys.. you tell us to provide facts, links, source, but its you guys who are jabbering nonsence 24/7..
now you tell me with "FACTS" that india did not have 1000 combats in 1965 war and paf operated more advance and same amount of jets as india. and oh not to forget your stupid claim of "india placing 2/3 of its fleet on reserve for china"

 

[luoshan]

any link to support what? oh boy you guys are so deluded and brained washed that even north koreans would laugh at you guys.. you guys are taught to not except the reality but to deny it with their own twisted ego satisfying stories.
funny thing about you guys.. you tell us to provide facts, links, source, but its you guys who are jabbering nonsence 24/7..
now you tell me with "FACTS" that india did not have 1000 combats in 1965 war and paf operated more advance and same amount of jets as india. and oh not to forget your stupid claim of "india placing 2/3 of its fleet on reserve for china"

@Growler: Still awaiting your backup to the claim the India had 10:1 numerical advantage over Pakistan in 1965. Also, you claimed that India had 1000 combat jets without backing it up. Link to any reliable web source will be appreciated.
I never claimed India stationed 2/3 of fleet on Chinese border. You made up that number.

 

[luoshan]

I got sick and tired of these shallow-bubonic chanakya's marathon lies and couldn't resist anymore on writing something about it. If your grand daddy Nehru didn't write in his 'Discovery of India', how the myth of 'Martial race' was discovered in his empire then listen up, it was neither Pakistani army nor Ahmed Shah Abdali invented that bravadoes supremacy but your daddy 'UNGREJ' was. And by their definition, if Punjabis and Pathans were martial then Sikh, Rajputh, North Indian Jat and Gorkha also fell in that catagory. So, who were you trying to fool here?

Yes, you are right. The colonial British originated it as a part of their divide and rule policy. I never claimed that Pakistan/Islam was the originator of the martial races BS. However Pakistan, especially East Pakistanis, whole heartedly adopted it and made it part of their military doctrine. Many of the so called British designated martial races are also in India, but India never accepted it as a state policy.
Also, as a Bangldeshi you should be aware that if it was not for India, the 'martial races men of Pakistan' would still be having a 'nice time' with your non-martial Bengali Sisters/daughters like they were doing in 1971.