Thank You India

[Xeric]

Since you are so excited about those 'leaked data' & took time to list out the significance of spy satellites with zeal, I shall let you know 'actual' value of the purported significance of the so called 'leaked info'.

The data shared is of the co-ordinates of airfields and helipads (ie stationary targets)
Those co-ordinated can be easily obtained through Google-earth, amateur and professional think tanks some times they get lucky & find a secret submarine base in far off coast in china or an underground aircraft hanger in North Korea and Google-earth's use for defense enthusiast stops right there.

And that explains why US has to Shell out billions on satellite imagery, for they are not just seeking co-ordinates and altitude. they seek topography, that includes height of a sand-dune in Iraq to the height of an 20 story building under construction in shangai, they map it some times on hourly basis and why do they do that?
thats coz their cruise missile and drones needs such precise information to literally hug on to the surface to evade radar and that is just one example of what they do with satellites.

I wont loose my nap over it ,for i know India has dedicated spy satellites 'on its own' that peeps on to the other side of the border gathering just more than co-ordinates.

No question about it- its a break in protocal by the Indian airforce BUT Look a simple google search ...comes up with. With GPS enabled how do yo figure each others countries does not know the location of the others military bases.

THANK YOU CHINA !!

Chinese Anti satellite site

Chinese Nuclear submarine site

My smarty pants buddies, these sat images (especially from a friend of indian namely 'Mr Google Earth') are of almost no use to the military. Yes, they may be used by terrorists (as done during Mumbai attacks, attack on PNS Mehran, Attack on GHQ etc) and may help in gaining a superficial knowledge as regards to the (general) location of these installation (which on the other hand is already known to chronic belligerents by virtue of spying via various other means which include, but are not limited to ground recce, ariel photography, inhouse spies etc). BUT, these cannot be used to work out exact grid coords/map references to direct fire (artillery, air, missiles etc), nor can these be used for planning purposes at operational and strategic levels, well may be at the tactical level one can resort to such outdated and inaccurate imaginary to lessen the 'fog of war' created once a tactical operation is launched.

For a sat imagery to be of use to military commanders, it has to be precise and accurate. For an error in DECIMALS in the Long/Lats yields an error in kilometers when the grid coords are converted into Map/Grid References, and believe me, errors in inches and centimeters only are acceptable when a missile/artillery raid is planned.

On the other hand, when the news says that you guys had "disclosed locations and precise coordinates of sensitive forward posts of the Army along the Pakistan and China border"....."along with details of altitude and dimensions of helipads", well then one needs to worry. Because how ever accurate one tries to measure dimensions via google earth with its measuring tools, they'd still be inaccurate to an extent that they become useless for operational planning.

This happens because of the various methods (like Retroazimuthal, Gnomonic, Equidistant, Conformal, Pseudoconical/Conical, Pseudocylindrical/Cylindrical, Mercator projections etc etc) used to prepare maps and by the satellites to photograph the earth.

If i remember correctly, GE uses Mercator Projection to map images. Now these may not be suitable for a military map used in india or Pakistan or wherever, if these maps are using any other method of PROJECTION to construct the map! So, one doesnt need any higher intellect to understand that these fancy images at GE etc are just for naives. But when our 'friends' would give us the exact coordinates, well then it's altogether a different story. Savvy?!

 

[Dash]

Guys, lets accept that its a blunder from Army....especially it blows cover for any speacial ops base...If this news is true then.
It could be a conspiracy also like PNS Ghazi.

 

[JayAtl]

My smarty pants buddies, these sat images (especially from a friend of indian namely 'Mr Google Earth') are of almost no use to the military. Yes, they may be used by terrorists (as done during Mumbai attacks, attack on PNS Mehran, Attack on GHQ etc) and may help in gaining a superficial knowledge as regards to the (general) location of these installation (which on the other hand is already known to chronic belligerents by virtue of spying via various other means which include, but are not limited to ground recce, ariel photography, inhouse spies etc). BUT, these cannot be used to work out exact grid coords/map references to direct fire (artillery, air, missiles etc), nor can these be used for planning purposes at operational and strategic levels, well may be at the tactical level one can resort to such outdated and inaccurate imaginary to lessen the 'fog of war' created once a tactical operation is launched.

For a sat imagery to be of use to military commanders, it has to be precise and accurate. For an error in DECIMALS in the Long/Lats yields an error in kilometers when the grid coords are converted into Map/Grid References, and believe me, errors in inches and centimeters only are acceptable when a missile/artillery raid is planned.

On the other hand, when the news says that you guys had "disclosed locations and precise coordinates of sensitive forward posts of the Army along the Pakistan and China border"....."along with details of altitude and dimensions of helipads", well then one needs to worry. Because how ever accurate one tries to measure dimensions via google earth with its measuring tools, they'd still be inaccurate to an extent that they become useless for operational planning.

This happens because of the various methods (like Retroazimuthal, Gnomonic, Equidistant, Conformal, Pseudoconical/Conical, Pseudocylindrical/Cylindrical, Mercator projections etc etc) used to prepare maps and by the satellites to photograph the earth.

If i remember correctly, GE uses Mercator Projection to map images. Now these may not be suitable for a military map used in india or Pakistan or wherever, if these maps are using any other method of PROJECTION to construct the map! So, one doesnt need any higher intellect to understand that these fancy images at GE etc are just for naives. But when our 'friends' would give us the exact coordinates, well then it's altogether a different story. Savvy?!

LOL-You need to give up on the science of Sat images, because you apparently did not figure out GPS location statellite is in existing . You know those satellites that give you precise driving directions to a tee are also used for military purposes( seperate satellites. You keep comparing it to Google earth images as if that's what " military's source is ".

Secondly- The hoop la as I said was that it was on a public domain. Those coordinates are provided privately to every company that enters the bid process and is no " top secret". The media and your likes are all excited over coordinates readily given to all private companies in the world

 

[Xeric]

Thickheads will remain thicksheads!

Now this smarty pants is comparing GPS with sat images.

Dude, i have a fringging GPS in my cell phone with the fringging Garmin Mobile XT software with (free and paid) maps and you are trying to teach me how GPS works?!

For someone to get the coords of a base with a GPS device he needs to enter that base and read the coords or at best extrapolate them if he can only reach a base and not enter it because of security reasons, again this is related to ground recce/man-spying, which is has no connection to the current discussion that has already been off topic, and NOT with sat imagery or Mr GE, which indeed is the topic at hand!!

So the bottom line is that Mr GE and any other freelance sat image is of no use to military planners, but your Army giving us dead accurate grid coords will surely produce fruit once we are sitting eyeball to eyeball once again, which again was either possible only through man-spying by Pakistan (as your honorable self has mentioned by scattering his pearls of wisdom by educating as regarding a GPA device) or through hi-tech and highly expensive space programme which Pakistan cannot exactly afford.

Gosh man!

 

[JayAtl]

Thickheads will remain thicksheads!

Now this smarty pants is comparing GPS with sat images.

Dude, i have a fringging GPS in my cell phone with the fringging Garmin Mobile XT software with (free and paid) maps and you are trying to teach me how GPS works?!

For someone to get the coords of a base with a GPS device he needs to enter that base and read the coords or at best extrapolate them if he can only reach a base and not enter it because of security reasons, again this is related to ground recce/man-spying, which is has no connection to the current discussion that has already been off topic, and NOT with sat imagery or Mr GE, which indeed is the topic at hand!!

So the bottom line is that Mr GE and any other freelance sat image is of no use to military planners, but your Army giving us dead accurate grid coords will surely produce fruit once we are sitting eyeball to eyeball once again, which again was either possible only through man-spying by Pakistan (as your honorable self has mentioned by scattering his pearls of wisdom by educating as regarding a GPA device) or through hi-tech and highly expensive space programme which Pakistan cannot exactly afford.

Gosh man!

you are spending 100 line sentences on a science you are really only trying to convince yourself. You dont understand military satellites and their GPS capabilities attached to it. ...tells us how do satellities find hidden bases? Does a sat image not also give the longitude and lattiude of what it looking at? what is mapping? what do you think a satellite does when it maps vast areas? How does one go back and keep tracking hidden sites once found through mapping( grid searches)? Ghosh man! lol you are not a science man really embrassing..

why did you ignore the fact that such coordinates are given to all private companies all over the world in the bid process. and that the hoop la is because it was in the public domain... how can it be top secret if its is included in RFP to private companies all over the world? well I guess that would mean it would burst your excitment -if you did not ignore that simple logic .. so have at it.

 

[toxic_pus]

Apparently PAF, at one point in time, during Operation Black Thunderstorm, was actually using Mr Google Earth.

“The biggest handicap we had in Bajaur was that we didn’t have good imagery,” Air Chief Marshal Qamar said. “We didn’t have good target descriptions. We did not know the area. We were forced to use Google Earth.

So says Sir Buzz Killington.

Ouch!

 

[Xeric]

Coordinates of bases given all over the world.

These are Top Secret.

Xerics is excited because these coords were available in the public domain, though he is only trying argue about the images available on GE Vs those taken by spy sats.

Despite the fact that i myself have mentioned that Long/Lats that are available on GE CANNOT be used for planning purposes (what to talk of them being used by the military, these cant even be used for civilian works - as mentioned by GE itself in its disclaimer) and that the Long/Lats (grid coords) available from GE will result in huge errors when converted into map/grid REFERENCES (do you even know the difference between a Grid COORDINATE and a Grid REFERENCE?) as it is the grid REFERENCES NOT the Grid COORDINATES that are primarily used by artillery in indo-Pak scenerio. The reason behind this was amply explained by me in my post # 136 (the inherent errors in the methods used by map makers and satellites to take pictures - Retroazimuthal, Gnomonic, Equidistant, Conformal, Pseudoconical/Conical, Pseudocylindrical/Cylindrical, Mercator projections etc and the MISMATCH caused by the different methods of Projections used by GE images and those used by Pakistani and indian Map Makers), still you are unable to comprehend a simple thing! And you have the cheeks to tell me how a Sat shows Long/Lats and how it employs GPS technology to construct GRIDS? WTH!!

A simple way to make a smarty pants like yourself to understand is, that if you have ever used GE, you must have seen the errors when two slides of sat images are placed together. This is known as 'stitching' of images. Here are a few examples from your Mr GE:

Surnana, india:

Jagdevwala, india:

Nal, india:

See how roads/railway tracks and terrain features do not match when 2 slides are stitched together. This is primarily because of the shape of earth Vs the flatness of an image. The Mercator projections tries to minimize these. Now a difference of such slight errors in inches in GE would result in a commutative error in kilometers when these would be converted into Grid REFERENCES (used by Gunners) coupled with the error caused by the difference of methods employed by GE and your or our map makers (GE uses Mercator projections, you or us may use Cylindrical projections for map making, for instance) would result in a error so huge that when someone would fire a missile at Delhi, it may land near Mumbai, for the holy love of God!! At best, GE may be used for general orientation of localities, especially by forces operating on ground that too when they have to fight Close Quarter Battles (CQB), Fight In Built Up Area (FIBUA) or do the sneek peek thing as done by terrorists (Mumbai attacks, PNS Mehran attacks etc) and thus they are useless for planning fire raids of any kind. These images are in no way better than what your 'mighty' Army has just done - given the accurate coords of posts!

So a request to thickheads; please try to understand the difference between watching a 3-year-old sat image from GE for orientation (can maximum be used for terrain analysis and find out the fold of ground etc) and finding out the exact grid coordinates of the same place, lets say by, someone posting them online with authentication!!(to be used for missiles and artillery fire - this is much better than not seeing the image itself as missiles and artillery are not fired basing on pretty images, but trignometric data (coords)).

Thus my point of discussion: those smarty pants who think we could have gotten the same results by using 'Mr Google Earth' as opposed to your own military by posting exact coords of your forward bases are idiots!!

The only thing that comes to my mind after reading your posts is this:

Mod Edit: Leave sponge bob out of this please. PDF cant offord to pay the damages to the cartoon Franchise.

 

[fd24]

LOL-You need to give up on the science of Sat images, because you apparently did not figure out GPS location statellite is in existing . You know those satellites that give you precise driving directions to a tee are also used for military purposes( seperate satellites. You keep comparing it to Google earth images as if that's what " military's source is ".

Secondly- The hoop la as I said was that it was on a public domain. Those coordinates are provided privately to every company that enters the bid process and is no " top secret". The media and your likes are all excited over coordinates readily given to all private companies in the world

and thirdly we find you on here being off topic. Young man dont get excited and raise your blood pressure but please lets talk about India and how generous they have been.
On topic i think India will tighten up their security after this and the world wont be thanking them again!

 

[INDTAM]

and thirdly we find you on here being off topic. Young man dont get excited and raise your blood pressure but please lets talk about India and how generous they have been.
On topic i think India will tighten up their security after this and the world wont be thanking them again!

well India has given its enemies a good heads up

 

[JayAtl]

Why are you always cursing dude? You keep going back to GE as the only tool. the point is if an amatuer can find the images I posted. Militaries can get more accurate data using statellites( china) or gleeming that information( pak) from its allies in the region. However, in this specific case discussed here -You will go round and round being stuck on S___ to fit your meme.


what part of coordinates given to private companies in a tender is so difficult to understand. The tender is for aircrafts that need to work in a specific area, at specific heights, needing specific ceiling, with atmospheric altitude and pressures in mind. If you dont provide access to that- how do you think anyone can submit to a live test? By doing it in a simulator? did you know in the MMRCA tender one phase was having it fly out high altitude bases? Keep in mind this tender is for airbase... you cant keep them hidden. every pakistan airbase and india airbase is known by both countries. For god sake India annouces when its building a base in what city and when!

I'll tell you what cat, you enjoy this secret yeah? you go get them tiger...

A similar tender to hire choppers issued earlier this year did not get adequate response, prompting the disclosure of locations to attract private and public firms.

 

[lem34]

well indians have no point in hiding Mig21s they are more danger to indians than any potential enemy. So any enemy should realise this is an incredible strategy. You tell the enemy where your migs are so at least if they are destroyed on the ground it will hopefully save pilot.

 

[INDTAM]

Why are you always cursing dude? You keep going back to GE as the only tool. the point is if an amatuer can find the images I posted. Militaries can get more accurate data using statellites( china) or gleeming that information( pak) from its allies in the region. However, in this specific case discussed here -You will go round and round being stuck on S___ to fit your meme.


what part of coordinates given to private companies in a tender is so difficult to understand. The tender is for aircrafts that need to work in a specific area, at specific heights, needing specific ceiling, with atmospheric altitude and pressures in mind. If you dont provide access to that- how do you think anyone can submit to a live test? By doing it is a simulator? did you know in the MMRCA tender one phase was having it fly out high altitude bases?

I'll tell you what cat, you enjoy this secret yeah? you go get them tiger...

relax bro if we made a mistake then we will pay.

If not its hunky dory and besides terrorist cannot target them because these are protected areas( PLEASE NO MEHRAN AS THIS IS NOT LOCATED IN CIVILIAN POPULATED AREAS) and also if enemy country targets them then its war.

 

[Yeti]

well indians have no point in hiding Mig21s they are more danger to indians than any potential enemy. So any enemy should realise this is an incredible strategy. You tell the enemy where your migs are so at least if they are destroyed on the ground it will have hopefully no pilot.

You forget your old Mirages? one crashed this week killing the pilot

 

[lem34]

Default Re: Thank You India

well indians have no point in hiding Mig21s they are more danger to indians than any potential enemy. So any enemy should realise this is an incredible strategy. You tell the enemy where your migs are so at least if they are destroyed on the ground it will have hopefully no pilot.
Original Post By Aryan_B


You forget your old Mirages? one crashed this week killing the pilot

Well you have incredible strategy I will call general kayani and tell him he should follow indias lead and disclose bases lol

 

[Hyde]

Thank you India!