Thackeray wants Hindu Sucide squad

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

However, Islam is a powerful ideology that can be misused, and has been misused throughout its history.

All ideologies have the power to be misused - because they have the power to motivate vast swathes of people.

You say any ideology can be misused but that is not what you really are arguing.

Islam stresses group unity and fighting for the common cause.

An oversimplification - fighting against injustice is not the same as "common cause".

-has a fixed set of rigid rules that vary between sects, but never within the sect.

Wrong - even within sects, and from Muslim to Muslim, interpretations vary.

- has a set of rules for religious warfare, called Jehad, that are unfortunately open to a wide number of interpretations.

Any thing is open to interpretation - one cannot control what others think.

Hinduism encourages individual worship, and the conduct of the indivudual.
It doesn't have fixed rules and regulations (or regimentation).
It has myriad interpretations that vary so much that two hindus rarely do the same thing.

Bar point 1, the others apply more or less to Islam as well.

Its nobody' fault, but then Islam can be distorted...and that's my point.

Aah see, now you are back to "Islam can be distorted" from your earlier "any ideology can be distorted".

But you are forgetting one thing.

Its not possible to motivate people to suicide bomb after reading Grimm's fairy tales.

Not my point.

Most Muslims would argue that Islam says nothing about suicide bombings.

Heck, there was no explosive 1400 years ago, so technically it isn't possible to motivate anyone to "blow themselves up" in Islam either.

On the other hand, its possible to do so with the Islamic or Christian texts.

Infact, its possible to do so with Hindu texts as well, but the problem is that there are far too many of them for us to arrive at any consensus.

And as you admitted, it is possible to do so with any ideology, but your last sentence implies that there is a consensus in Islam and Christianity that suicide bombings are justified, and that is a blatant lie.

I call it a lie since you know there is in fact a consensus that suicide bombings are not justified in Islam amongst the overwhelming majority of Muslims (google the TFT, Pew and Gallup polls).

The only ones who have a consensus over suicide bombings being justified are the terrorists, and if you want to actually believe their interpretation, well, then stop smoking that Afghan special.

 

[muse]

"Yes, and Hitler and Stalin both had moustaches, therfore anyone with a moustache is a mass murderer!!

That sort of logic doesn't work buddy"

So, how is it that it only works when it comes to Islam and Muslims? I'm affraid I'm not persuaded by this presentation

You suggest that political motivations are not "sincere" - huh?? And therefore the motivationsof the tamil are no "sincere", or is it that their motivation is indeed religious and therefore "sincere"??

Will that logic work?? -- reasonableness for reasonableness -- or is it logic for logic, your choice, I'm game for either. Buddy!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Originally Posted by muse View Post
Assasin

Tamils are Buddhists? no, they are Hindus. Do tamils use suicide Bombing? Yes they do!

Tamils of Sri Lanka maybe Hindus and Christians, but there is a subtle difference.

Unlike Islam and the concept of ummah, there is nothing like that to coalesce the religious flock of different nationalities as one entity.

A Sri Lankan Christian has no similarity or bonding to say, an Indian Christian or say an American Christian.

In non Islamic religions, nationality is more important as an identity than that of the religion.

Therefore, to equate a Tamil Eelam suicide bomber to a religious affinity is a flawed argument.

 

[muse]

Obfscation - the tamils of lanka are hindus - the civil war in lanka is between the Hindu nd the buddhist.

Why obfuscate? your response does no justice to your reputation.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

AM.

Injustice is a state of mind prompted by fixed subconscious stimuli.

Every person, every religion and every nation feels that some injustice has been done to them.

But it is only the organised people, the organised religion with a religious exhortation, the organised and powerful nation, that can give ''body'' to such perceived injustice and go on a rampage.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Obfscation - the tamils of lanka are hindus - the civil war in lanka is between the Hindu nd the buddhist.

Why obfuscate? your response does no justice to your reputation.

Is the civil war in Sri Lanka, Hindu vs Buddhist affair?

That is really a rich and a new line I must say!

The ideologue was a Christian!!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

In Palestine suicide bombings and violence against civilians is being committed.

In SriLanka suicide bombings and violence against civilians is being committed.

What is common to both?

It is not Islam - it is the fact that two sets of peoples from different cultures and different faiths perceive themselves to be under occupation and subjected to atrocities and discrimination, and despite their differences, they have lashed out in almost identical manners.

That is why I say that pointing at Islam is merely a canard.

If the Palestinians were not Muslim, then like the Tamils of SL they would have found some other justification.

Selective analysis to justify anti-Islamic prejudice is what this "blame Islame" tirade is about.

 

[Flintlock]

You say any ideology can be misused but that is not what you really are arguing.

Er...why would I be saying that if I didn't mean to?

Yes, I am arguing for Islam because that's our topic of discussion isnt it?

If Christians were declaring holy war then Christianity would be the topic.

An oversimplification - fighting against injustice is not the same as "common cause".



Wrong - even within sects, and from Muslim to Muslim, interpretations vary.

Any thing is open to interpretation - one cannot control what others think.

You are taking facts in isolation.
Its the combination of these myriad factors which shapes up into a powerful tool in the hands of fundamentalists.
Get it?

Bar point 1, the others apply more or less to Islam as well.

Nope. Islam emphasises collective identity like Patriotism and Communism.
Hinduism emphasises individual identity.

Aah see, now you are back to "Islam can be distorted" from your earlier "any ideology can be distorted".

Yes, because I am considering Islam specifically, not any ideology.

Most Muslims would argue that Islam says nothing about suicide bombings.

But then a lot of muslims who were previously moderate get motivated by extremists.

Heck, there was no explosive 1400 years ago, so technically it isn't possible to motivate anyone to "blow themselves up" in Islam either.

It did motivate them to fight the crusades. and Jehad wars.

And as you admitted, it is possible to do so with any ideology, but your last sentence implies that there is a consensus in Islam and Christianity that suicide bombings are justified, and that is a blatant lie.

Er...sorry....I didn't indicate anything of the sort.

I call it a lie since you know there is in fact a consensus that suicide bombings are not justified in Islam amongst the overwhelming majority of Muslims (google the TFT, Pew and Gallup polls).

I agree.

The only ones who have a consensus over suicide bombings being justified are the terrorists, and if you want to actually believe their interpretation, well, then stop smoking that Afghan special.

There is no right or wrong interpretation. IMO all interpretation are equally wrong.

However, some interpretations are more potent than others. That's all.

 

[Flintlock]

In Palestine suicide bombings and violence against civilians is being committed.

In SriLanka suicide bombings and violence against civilians is being committed.

What is common to both?

Nothing is common except an ideology which is powerful enough to motivate them.

In Palestine, the ideology is an interpretation of Islam. In Sri Lanka, it is probably an extreme form of ethnic patriotism.

It is not Islam - it is the fact that two sets of peoples from different cultures and different faiths perceive themselves to be under occupation and subjected to atrocities and discrimination, and despite their differences, they have lashed out in almost identical manners.

You are forgetting some differences.

the LTTE isn't extending the suicide bombings to the major cities of the world. It is confined to the area of conflict.

On the other hand, muslims are not being mistreated in the US or Britain or Spain yet they are bombing these cities.

Also, Tamils from India are not rallying in the streets in support of the LTTE.
Neither are Hindu religious leaders in India doing so.

Whereas muslim religious leaders with huge followings in Iran talk about the rise of Islam and all that.

Name one muslim religious leader today who is both famous and moderate.

 

[muse]

Assasin

So it's the rallying that is the problem? How is that weapons and explosives get to the tamils? Isn't tamil nadu just across the water? Or is it that the weapons are coming from somewhere else,say the Pak-afghan border?, yeah, yeah, that's sounds about right?

So suicide bombing in the area of conflict is OK???

You are not putting your ususal thoughtful effort behind these posts.

 

[Flintlock]

Assasin

So it's the rallying that is the problem? How is that weapons and explosives get to the tamils? Isn't tamil nadu just across the water? Or is it that the weapons are coming from somewhere else,say the Pak-afghan border?, yeah, yeah, that's sounds about right?

There is a huge arms smuggling operation which is global in nature. As far as I know, not much of the smuggling is done from India.

Most of the funds raising and arms buying is done via the west and Africa.

So suicide bombing in the area of conflict is OK???

Hmm...did I say tht?

 

[muse]

"You are forgetting some differences.

the LTTE isn't extending the suicide bombings to the major cities of the world. It is confined to the area of conflict.

On the other hand, muslims are not being mistreated in the US or Britain or Spain yet they are bombing these cities"

Now, help me understand - you are not saying that confining suicide bombing to the area of conflict is bad/wrong? Are you saying suicide bombings in areas out of conflict are bad??

And If they are both bad and wrong, to exactly what "difference" are you pointing to? distinctions without a difference?


by the way - you may want to check out "just put your hand in mine" by Space Cowboys

 

[Flintlock]

Now, help me understand - you are not saying that confining suicide bombing to the area of conflict is bad/wrong? Are you saying suicide bombings in areas out of conflict are bad??

And If they are both bad and wrong, to exactly what "difference" are you pointing to? distinctions without a difference?


by the way - you may want to check out "just put your hand in mine" by Space Cowboys

I am saying that the difference in scale indicates that suicide bombing is being used by muslims in all sorts of scenarios, and not just when their territory is occupied.

I am not debating the morality issue....obviously I am not a fan of the tactic.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

In Palestine suicide bombings and violence against civilians is being committed.

In SriLanka suicide bombings and violence against civilians is being committed.

What is common to both?

It is not Islam - it is the fact that two sets of peoples from different cultures and different faiths perceive themselves to be under occupation and subjected to atrocities and discrimination, and despite their differences, they have lashed out in almost identical manners.

That is why I say that pointing at Islam is merely a canard.

If the Palestinians were not Muslim, then like the Tamils of SL they would have found some other justification.

Selective analysis to justify anti-Islamic prejudice is what this "blame Islame" tirade is about.

All suicide bombers are fools.

They only make the divide more concrete!

What is the aim? Find a solution, fight?

If you kill senselessly, can there be any solution. It will only harden views!

No justification is there for these type of lunatics!

Islam is being blamed since it has no geographical limits and it can strike anywhere in the world and at any time. I presume that is the reason why Islam is at the wrong end of the stick!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Assasin

So it's the rallying that is the problem? How is that weapons and explosives get to the tamils? Isn't tamil nadu just across the water? Or is it that the weapons are coming from somewhere else,say the Pak-afghan border?, yeah, yeah, that's sounds about right?

So suicide bombing in the area of conflict is OK???

You are not putting your ususal thoughtful effort behind these posts.

The weapons are not from India, if that is what you wish to imply.

India is dead worried that it will spill into Tamilnadu.

Weapons are from Thailand and the world's illegal market including the badlands of Pakistan and from Europe!