TFT: Debating a Dictator

[VCheng]

Only jamhori leaders

No, dictators throughout Pakistan's history have done far worse to the nation, except perhaps Bhutto.

 

[B.K.N]

No, dictators throughout Pakistan's history have done far worse to the nation, except perhaps Bhutto.

Ayub Khan did one mistake he made Bhutto
Zia ul Haq's mistake was he made Nawaz Sharif
and Musharaf's mistake was he allowed benazir and Nawaz to return

 

[SIPRA]

"Haq maghfarat karay, ajab he gaaf mard tha"

 

[VCheng]

Ayub Khan did one mistake he made Bhutto
Zia ul Haq's mistake was he made Nawaz Sharif
and Musharaf's mistake was he allowed benazir and Nawaz to return

Budaber and Gary Powers?
Jihaad in Afghanistan?
WoT?
Kargil?

Should I continue?

 

[B.K.N]

Budaber and Gary Powers?
Jihaad in Afghansitan?
WoT?
Kargil?

Should I continue?

I support all of this everything was right

 

[VCheng]

I support all of this everything was right

Of course. You have a right to your opinion, but I cannot agree with that due to the historical record and evidence.

 

[B.K.N]

Of course. You have a right to your opinion, but I cannot agree with that due to the historical record and evidence.

All these things were necessary for survival of Pakistan
If First one budaber and Garry is related to American spy plane downing by Soviets

 

[maithil]

I was there to see this stunt by the dictator.

How close to reality was Mohd Hanif's portrayal of Zia in " The case of exploding mangoes" ?

 

[VCheng]

How close to reality was Mohd Hanif's portrayal of Zia in " The case of exploding mangoes" ?

The description was quite good. I have met the man back in the day. He was as crafty and dangerously misguided as many recognized, and then some. Pakistan will never be the same after what he did to it, and us all.

All these things were necessary for survival of Pakistan
If First one budaber and Garry is related to American spy plane downing by Soviets

No, all those things were done to benefit some at the great cost of the many.

 

[313ghazi]

Very straight forward questions to answer.

1. Muslim societies have been under attack by the west continiously for several hundred years. Ranging from colonial invasions, the destruction of the Islamic Caliphate (The Ottoman Empire as we are not told to call it) and continuing to bombs for democracy! In these societies once they've been conquered, dictators and yes men have been installed. It's understandable that the reaction to puppet regimes will be violent. As for the specifics of violence against women, that unfortunately happens all over the world. Even in the worlds most civilised and advanced societies, most women have suffered violence of sexual abuse. It's a global problem and requires a global solution, but it all starts in the household with how fathers treat daughters, husbands treat wives and how they teach their sons to treat their sisters.

2. Again muslim societies have been regularly attacked and had their infrastructure destroyed and their resources stolen by colonisers. When the French left their colonies in Africa they burnt the schools and libraries and even killed livestock and burnt crops. They have then imposed on us yes men and corrupt lackeys who have not invested in re-building and re-establishing the infrastructure and the economies of our countries, instead they have filled their own pockets. How many of our kings like Umar (RA)? How many Presidential palaces did the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) have? These extravegant buildings in todays societies (where the rest of us live in poverty) are symbols of greed and excess.

The actions of Muslims today and the poor state of Muslim societies today cannot be used as a measure of the teachings of Islam or the values of Islamic societies. The very same Islam gave birth to Empires that spread to Spain, to the gates of Vienna and more locally across the entire subcontinent. The very same Islam also gives us society today and the socities that were defeated by the Crusaders and Mongols. Civilization has peaks and troughs, it is natural - Islamic principles and values are universal.

As for the history stuff - that's just nuts. Don't agree with a word of that.

 

[VCheng]

Very straight forward questions to answer.

1. Muslim societies have been under attack by the west continiously for several hundred years. Ranging from colonial invasions, the destruction of the Islamic Caliphate (The Ottoman Empire as we are not told to call it) and continuing to bombs for democracy! In these societies once they've been conquered, dictators and yes men have been installed. It's understandable that the reaction to puppet regimes will be violent. As for the specifics of violence against women, that unfortunately happens all over the world. Even in the worlds most civilised and advanced societies, most women have suffered violence of sexual abuse. It's a global problem and requires a global solution, but it all starts in the household with how fathers treat daughters, husbands treat wives and how they teach their sons to treat their sisters.

2. Again muslim societies have been regularly attacked and had their infrastructure destroyed and their resources stolen by colonisers. When the French left their colonies in Africa they burnt the schools and libraries and even killed livestock and burnt crops. They have then imposed on us yes men and corrupt lackeys who have not invested in re-building and re-establishing the infrastructure and the economies of our countries, instead they have filled their own pockets. How many of our kings like Umar (RA)? How many Presidential palaces did the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) have? These extravegant buildings in todays societies (where the rest of us live in poverty) are symbols of greed and excess.

The actions of Muslims today and the poor state of Muslim societies today cannot be used as a measure of the teachings of Islam or the values of Islamic societies. The very same Islam gave birth to Empires that spread to Spain, to the gates of Vienna and more locally across the entire subcontinent. The very same Islam also gives us society today and the socities that were defeated by the Crusaders and Mongols. Civilization has peaks and troughs, it is natural - Islamic principles and values are universal.

As for the history stuff - that's just nuts. Don't agree with a word of that.

Did you miss this line?

He had converted legitimate historical questions into an attack on Islam and he would now repel it.

You are doing the same thing!

 

[B.K.N]

No, all those things were done to benefit some at the great cost of the many.

Not true these things were necessary for Pakistan's survival
If some one considers these things wrong than he should blame forefathers of Pakistan not some ruler People like you often say Pakistan is an artificial state for an artificial state it wasn't possible to survive in it's current form without all this bloodshed

 

[maithil]

The description was quite good. I have met the man back in the day. He was as crafty and dangerously misguided as many recognized, and then some. Pakistan will never be the same after what he did to it, and us all.



No, all those things were done to benefit some at the great cost of the many.

Even though tone of the book is humourous, I still got chills just by imagining how twisted his mind must have been.

 

[VCheng]

Not true these things were necessary for Pakistan's survival
If some one considers these things wrong than he should blame forefathers of Pakistan not some ruler People like you often say Pakistan is an artificial state for an artificial state it wasn't possible to survive in it's current form without all this bloodshed

You have the right to believe in such false claims. I will not, by the same right.

Even though tone of the book is humourous, I still got chills just by imagining how twisted his mind must have been.

He was the most evil man among a group of his evil peers that followed him, no doubt about that at all.

(His only redeeming feature was the love for his disabled daughter.)

 

[B.K.N]

You have the right to believe in such false claims. I will not, by the same right.

Pashtun nationalism or nationalists are fasad ki jar for Afghan jihad and Afghan jahad was the reason for war on terror