TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Turcici Imperium]

You really need to pm one of the pdf moderators or admins and check out if there is a dedicated mod on Turkish section in the first place.

Sadly there is no dedicated moderation for this forum. I asked one to be appointed earlier from webmaster but no progress at all. Without moderation, his thread turns into complete circlejerk.

 

[Turcici Imperium]

First steelcut of MMU has been done, according to head of SSB. That means, some parts of the first prototype of MMU program starts being built.

SSB Başkanı Demir, MMU projesinde gelinen son aşamayı Defensehere'a anlattı

Cumhurbaşkanlığı Savunma Sanayii Başkanı Prof. Dr. İsmail Demir, defensehere.com'a verdiği özel röportajda, TUSAŞ tarafından yürütülen Milli Muharip Uçak...

www.defensehere.com

First Hürjet prototype is already in production, we may see some pictures of Hürjet from production line in Q3-Q4 of 2021.

 

[dr.knowhow]

First steelcut of MMU has been done, according to head of SSB. That means, some parts of the first prototype of MMU program starts being built.

SSB Başkanı Demir, MMU projesinde gelinen son aşamayı Defensehere'a anlattı

Cumhurbaşkanlığı Savunma Sanayii Başkanı Prof. Dr. İsmail Demir, defensehere.com'a verdiği özel röportajda, TUSAŞ tarafından yürütülen Milli Muharip Uçak...

www.defensehere.com

First Hürjet prototype is already in production, we may see some pictures of Hürjet from production line in Q3-Q4 of 2021.

Wasn't the roll out to be Q4?

 

[Turcici Imperium]

Wasn't the roll out to be Q4?

Only thing i know about the announced schedule for hürjet is that, it's to make it's first flight by the end of 2022. I don't know any announced date for roll out.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

A higher rated version of the EJ?

The Turks chose the F110 for the prototype. I think the non US alternatives here are likely the WS-10 or AL-31. If their alternate is an Eastern engine, then one would wonder what the bigger motivating factor is? The Turks are still relatively OK with acquiring ITAR gear for themselves. It's only the PAF which said the design would need to be ITAR free for it to seriously consider it.

 

[SQ8]

The Turks chose the F110 for the prototype. I think the non US alternatives here are likely the WS-10 or AL-31. If their alternate is an Eastern engine, then one would wonder what the bigger motivating factor is? The Turks are still relatively OK with acquiring ITAR gear for themselves. It's only the PAF which said the design would need to be ITAR free for it to seriously consider it.

Well that’s because they have the maintenance infra for it and know how to use it. But that also means the TFx is potentially a 30000lb airplane which basically lets you put a RD-93 variant on it if requested. That has so far been ITAR free for Pakistan.

 

[Deino]

The Turks chose the F110 for the prototype. I think the non US alternatives here are likely the WS-10 or AL-31. If their alternate is an Eastern engine, then one would wonder what the bigger motivating factor is? The Turks are still relatively OK with acquiring ITAR gear for themselves. It's only the PAF which said the design would need to be ITAR free for it to seriously consider it.

But wasn’t @SQ8 speaking of the Hürjet? The F110 was chosen for the MMU only.

 

[xMustiiej70]

How is it possible for Turkey to use F110 for a prototype(still)? Given that we are booted from F-35 why would they make it possible to go for Turkey's own fighter program? Shouldn't they atleast make it harder for us to do this?

 

[Deino]

Again not meant as an offence but only as an argument, why so many are sceptical towards any Turkish claims for their own Hürjet and even more the MMU/TFX: This is how a prototype of an advanced fighter aircraft should look like at the moment when you want to aim for a maiden flight in early 2022.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1366282075440111617

 

[Dac O Dac]

It's only the PAF which said the design would need to be ITAR free for it to seriously consider it.

PAF is under china influence => No noob turkish fighters for PAF (noob because it's a first try for turkish industry, and no turkish fighter to PAF because China will not agree).

The Turks chose the F110 for the prototype. I think the non US alternatives here are likely the WS-10 or AL-31.

They don't share the same overall dimension. You have to make a choice now, to avoid a deep frame change in the future.

 

[xbat]

HURJET was in construction 1 year ago, they had started to make it from its wings, thats all we know , probably they are close to finish first prototype, they dont have to share everything, you know.

 

[Deino]

HURJET was in construction 1 year ago, they had started to make it from its wings, thats all we know , probably they are close to finish first prototype, they dont have to share everything, you know.

Thanks a lot, but that makes it even more suspicious ... no info on what type of engine! No confirmation from that unknown foreign supplier! Very much mysterious, just like the Yeti or Nessi.

 

[xbat]

despite political turmoil between US and Turkey, US still supplies tons of materials to Turkish Army, you know whole Turkish fighter planes are US origin and many more, i dont think there would be problem for a couple more engines and i dont know why you guys are so suspicious, Tayyip slams on TVs but get along with on phones thats all politics. TURKEY accommodate an AN-TPY 2 radar, many US bases, supply US ships and planes, opens its airspace, member of NATO etc, it is not easy to cut all ties, f35 and s400 are another issues. even Turkey is still in F35 supply chain. no need to add some more

 

[SgtGungHo]

Thanks a lot, but that makes it even more suspicious ... no info on what type of engine! No confirmation from that unknown foreign supplier! Very much mysterious, just like the Yeti or Nessi.

Motoru takılı HÃRJET sahneye çıkıyor

Türk Havacılık ve Uzay Sanayii (TUSAÅ) Genel Müdürü ve Yönetim Kurulu Ãyesi Prof. Dr. Temel Kotil, geliÅtirme faaliyetleri devam eden HÃRJET Jet tekâmül uçaÄı hakkında yeni bilgiler verdi.

aydinlik.com.tr

Apparently Turkey has chosen a GE F404 for Hurjet and that makes the whole affair a lot more interesting. Export of F404, a military gas turbine engine, is restricted by the US government which reserves a right to refuse issuing an export license. And I believe USA is NOT in a mood to green light such sales, especially when they already blocked another gas turbine engine, LHTEC.

US still supplies tons of materials to Turkish Army

Yeah, because they are mostly existing contracts or technologies that are involved in are not sensitive & restricted as gas turbein engines for military jets. Hurjet is a new project and Turkey needs a new permission. Also, GE needs a special concession from the US government to sell military grade aeroengines as the US govenrment is even more strict with gas turban engines for military.

it is not easy to cut all ties, f35 and s400 are another issues. even Turkey is still in F35 supply chain. no need to add some more

Again, because of existing contracts. Some US companies have already paid for supplies from Turkey or have to pay a contract termiation fee.

I think you are being too optimistic. You can't just assume the US would issue an export license of F404 for Hurjet just because the US allows her companies to fulfil existing contracts and supply arms with less sensitive technologies.

As it has been demonstrated with the LHTEC saga, the US is not keen on issuing a new export license for military-grade gas turbine engines (especially areoengines) to Turkey at the moment.

 

[SgtGungHo]

PAF is under china influence => No noob turkish fighters for PAF (noob because it's a first try for turkish industry, and no turkish fighter to PAF because China will not agree).

They don't share the same overall dimension. You have to make a choice now, to avoid a deep frame change in the future.

It is not like there isn't a precedent. Rafale's technology demonstrator flew with a pair of F404 which was similar in diametres, lengths and other parametres with M88, but those engines weren't exactly the same.

So according to Mr. Demir, he mentions "one or two (different) readily available engines to be used for the interim", before the Turkish developed engine is ready. This to me sounds like he's talking about an engine other than the F110.

Now considering what we have heard so far from various official Turkish figures, it seems to me that this "1 of the or maybe 2 of the engines" that he is talking about is firstly the F110, which has been licensed to Turkey for local production of parts and assembly for F-16 and another engine from a different country, probably Russia. I guess they are planning to use the F110 for the prototype and are going to apply for the US approval of using those F110s for what they are intending, which is not the application on F-16.

If the US doesn't approve, they could go ask this unknown second party, once again probably Russia, for an engine. In case if its really Russia, they seem to be willing to sell Su-35s and Su-57s, so maybe they are also willing to sell their engines if not the jets.

"
This sounds like they are planning to fly a technology demonstrator as a "prototype" like French did with Rafale when the jet was in the early development stage. They flew a tech demo jet with F404s and later replaced one of a pair with M88 for testing purpose. Of course, it may not be fair to French in 80's who had much more experience in developing fighter jets & gas turbine engines than Turks in 2020's. However, all I am saying is there is a precedent and it is not 'impossible'.