TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Deino]

!Stop repeating yourselves. !

Just prove your allegations. Just tell me:

Turkey has tech A, doesnt have B
Turkey can produce part C, cannot part D

Compare in details with countries, since you wanna be mr. i know everything.

PROVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would return that question with: Proof what you have and why should a small turboshaft in trials qualify to develop a fifth generation engine?

But again I won't get an answer nor an explanation ... as such let's wait and wait ...

 

[Mustafa27]

I would return that question with: Proof what you have and why should a small turboshaft in trials qualify to develop a fifth generation engine?

But again I won't get an answer nor an explanation ... as such let's wait and wait ...

why should i give you proof when you are the one saying that this industry is shit and that i know better then people that have been in this industry for decades and created the timeline.

I am not criticizing the people that made the timeline because they know better then me and unlike you i don't criticize people that i have no knowledge about.

Okay if a small turboshaft is so easy then why is there few countries that can do it then and why can't it qualify into a fifth generation engine with 10-15 years of extra work?

nobody is saying that its easy, if it was so easy more countries would do it. The real question is that will the engine be competitive when its produced in 10-15 years.

 

[Successwill]

Did combat_master leave the forum ? he should come and be our new moderator.. And clean unnecessary noise makers...

 

[Mamajama]

Turkey was producing engine from CKD kits.
ie, as always and specially the US case, the most critical parts came from US suppliers.... ie blisk, single crystal blades, FADEC....

Yeah, USA would never give them critcal technology just assembly and some manufacutirng of less critical parts.

 

[Mamajama]

Those critical parts which bon plan mentions, have been already being produced by Turkey. Take a few goddamn minutes and watch the video above. There are of course some more critical parts on which developments have started.

Goddamn it who are we trying to talk? what are your ages? what is this stupidity

My friend come back here in 2030 and we shall see who is correct ok?

 

[Successwill]

My friend come back here in 2030 and we shall see who is correct ok?

Lol i am always here, this is Turkish section. You come back here in 2030 and check what is what.

 

[Deino]

Lol i am always here, this is Turkish section. You come back here in 2030 and check what is what.

Again, first of all it is an international forum with the aim - as @WebMaster explained - to share opinions, to debate and it is NOT Turkish airspace, territory or there is not only a Turkish opinion. If you cannot accept this I can indeed only recommend to leave. Also - and thank god for this - it is not on your behalf to chose a moderator, to reject or bash anyone you don't like.

Otherwise calm down and please stop with your constant cursing and swearing; "Goddamn" is simply so much childish. So how old are you?

 

[Figaro]

I would return that question with: Proof what you have and why should a small turboshaft in trials qualify to develop a fifth generation engine?

But again I won't get an answer nor an explanation ... as such let's wait and wait ...

Actually the F-110GE-129 is just a 4th generation engine ... it is almost 40 years old. Even that IMO is out of reach for the current Turkish gas turbine industry. A fifth generation engine like a F-119 is simply a pipe dream. Rest assured, I am sure there are very rationale Turkish military enthusiasts who know this too ... however the fanboy will just continue rambling on.

Okay if a small turboshaft is so easy then why is there few countries that can do it then and why can't it qualify into a fifth generation engine with 10-15 years of extra work?

Because all of the countries developing fifth generation gas turbines have developed the previous generations as well. Unlike some other military fields, gas turbines is not an industry one can simply leapfrog due to money or talent poaching. You don't just simply say you are going to compete in the Olympics one day if you have not even competed in any local/state/national competition before.

 

[dr.knowhow]

I think this is getting out of hand. I'm not a moderator but I could at least tell that there is a dedicated thread for military engines that are being manufactured / developed in Turkey in this forum. Now since this engine for TF-X is not out there yet, I think it's better for all of us and constructive discussion that we contain the "debate" about this engine in its belonging thread. Also talking about basically the same topic in two different threads is pointless imho.

Don't get me wrong, I ain't trying to bash on anyone, but it's true that you guys are just going to be on the same loop forever this way. I haven't read anything about TF-X or Hürjet program on this thread apart from its powerplant for a while. Yes, an engine may be the most important component of an aeroplane but we're not talking about some Cessna but rather a fighter jet. There are so many stuff we could discuss about regarding its design, avionics and armaments.

Surely this would be way more interesting don't you think?

Last but not least, before talking about TF-X or its engine, we should remind ourselves that Turkey has not yet developed and flew a manned supersonic jet. The development of Hürjet should be what we are keeping our eyes on. Turkey already faced few difficulties and delays developing the Hürkuş but in the same time overcome them and now are delivering the aircraft to the air force. As of now we have no clue if this would just as well be the case for Hürjet or if it will proceed silky smooth / face even more delays than Hürkuş.

Only time will tell but way sooner than the TF-X for sure. If the Hürjet is successful, we could have more confidence in TF-X. If it's a flop then there would be no reason to believe the TF-X wouldn't be a failure.

I would like to ask the Turkish members of the forum about the recent updates of Hürjet. Has the engine been selected yet? From what I know its either F404 or EJ200 but the recent dynamics make it hard to figure, especially the prospects of F404 being selected for Hürjet. Considering the publicly known schedule for its maiden flight is around 2023, there must be quite a lot of progress made, namely that it should be well in its detailed design phase nearing its critical design review somewhere around next year, based on conventional aircraft development schedule. Since the engine is not only a thrust provider but a powerplant of the whole aircraft, TAI should either have an engine partner already or be working with a certain type of engine in mind if they actually are doing the detailed design for the Hürjet.

Edit) deleted the preceding post that was duplicate

 

[Mustafa27]

I think this is getting out of hand. I'm not a moderator but I could at least tell that there is a dedicated thread for military engines that are being manufactured / developed in Turkey in this forum. Now since this engine for TF-X is not out there yet, I think it's better for all of us and constructive discussion that we contain the "debate" about this engine in its belonging thread. Also talking about basically the same topic in two different threads is pointless imho.

Don't get me wrong, I ain't trying to bash on anyone, but it's true that you guys are just going to be on the same loop forever this way. I haven't read anything about TF-X or Hürjet program on this thread apart from its powerplant for a while. Yes, an engine may be the most important component of an aeroplane but we're not talking about some Cessna but rather a fighter jet. There are so many stuff we could discuss about regarding its design, avionics and armaments.

Surely this would be way more interesting don't you think?

Last but not least, before talking about TF-X or its engine, we should remind ourselves that Turkey has not yet developed and flew a manned supersonic jet. The development of Hürjet should be what we are keeping our eyes on. Turkey already faced few difficulties and delays developing the Hürkuş but in the same time overcome them and now are delivering the aircraft to the air force. As of now we have no clue if this would just as well be the case for Hürjet or if it will proceed silky smooth / face even more delays than Hürkuş.

Only time will tell but way sooner than the TF-X for sure. If the Hürjet is successful, we could have more confidence in TF-X. If it's a flop then there would be no reason to believe the TF-X wouldn't be a failure.

I would like to ask the Turkish members of the forum about the recent updates of Hürjet. Has the engine been selected yet? From what I know its either F404 or EJ200 but the recent dynamics make it hard to figure, especially the prospects of F404 being selected for Hürjet. Considering the publicly known schedule for its maiden flight is around 2023, there must be quite a lot of progress made, namely that it should be well in its detailed design phase nearing its critical design review somewhere around next year, based on conventional aircraft development schedule. Since the engine is not only a thrust provider but a powerplant of the whole aircraft, TAI should either have an engine partner already or be working with a certain type of engine in mind if they actually are doing the detailed design for the Hürjet.

Edit) deleted the preceding post that was duplicate

EJ200 was selected according to last claims.

 

[dr.knowhow]

EJ200 was selected according to last claims.

Thanks for the quick reply. It was quite an obvious choice really... Are there any other news about the detailed design phase? Like some new CAD model of the aircraft?

 

[Mustafa27]

Thanks for the quick reply. It was quite an obvious choice really... Are there any other news about the detailed design phase? Like some new CAD model of the aircraft?

FEATURES

- High AoA controllability
- Head-Up Display (HUD)
- Helmet Mounted Display (optional)
- Full authority, Digital Fly-by-Wire FCS
- State-of-the-art HMI, minimum conversion time to F-35 and TF
- Intra & Inter datalink
- NVG compatible (AJT, LIFT)
- Aerial refueling
- Carefree handling
- Embedded Tactical Training & Live Virtual Constructive Training Systems
- APU for autonomous operation also from austere airfield


ROLES

• Advanced Jet Trainer
• Lead-in Fighter Trainer
• Light Attack (Close Air Support)
• Red Aircraft
• Air Policing (Armed & Unarmed)
• Acro Team Aircraft

TECHNICAL DATA

• Dimensions
• Wingspan 9.8 m / 32.1 ft
• Length 13 m / 42.6 ft
• Height 4.2 m / 13.7 ft
• Wing Area 24 m2 / 258.3 ft2
• Thrust 19,200 lb

PERFORMANCE

• Service Ceiling 13,716 m / 45,000 ft
• Sustained Turn 6.5g @ 15,000 ft <0.9M
• Climb Rate 35,000 fpm
• Range 2592 km / 1400 nm
• Payload Capacity 2721 kg / 6000 lbs
• Maximum Speed 1.4 Mach
• G Limits +8g / -3g

dont know if there is cad or not.

 

[Mustafa27]

Actually the F-110GE-129 is just a 4th generation engine ... it is almost 40 years old. Even that IMO is out of reach for the current Turkish gas turbine industry. A fifth generation engine like a F-119 is simply a pipe dream. Rest assured, I am sure there are very rationale Turkish military enthusiasts who know this too ... however the fanboy will just continue rambling on.

Because all of the countries developing fifth generation gas turbines have developed the previous generations as well. Unlike some other military fields, gas turbines is not an industry one can simply leapfrog due to money or talent poaching. You don't just simply say you are going to compete in the Olympics one day if you have not even competed in any local/state/national competition before.

we have had 10 years of development and developed around 6-7 engines of different types and we are saying we are going to have a engine in 10-15 years, why does this seem unrealistic to you, tell me?

 

[dr.knowhow]

Well, a prototype usually takes a year of ground testing before the actual maiden flight after its roll-out so not having any CAD models public ain't a big deal I guess. By this metric we would be able to see the prototype within 2021 ~ 2022. Only a mere 1 or 2 years from now. Manufacturing of the prototype itself takes some time so if TAI and SSM is willing we might be able to see the components within next year. That ofc is when nothing is delayed tho.

 

[Falcon26]

10 years ago if anyone said Turkey would be where it is today, many people would have laughed and dismissed them as fantasy peddlers. Today, Turkey has mastered number of critical technologies and has highly competitive defense industry that can compete with the very best in the world. Its mastery of aeronautical engines has been nothing short of impressive. For those doubting Turkey, please compare their helicopter and missile engines so far with China and others. Does anyone really think they lack behind?

Yes, creating a jet engine for a 5th generational will be astronomically challenging; I share some of the skepticism expressed by some members; but considering how far Turkey has come in the past 10 years, I consider this to be within their reach within a decade.