TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[Deino]

There's more coming! Stay tuned.

Like these ones!??

 

[Deino]

... and two more ...

 

[dBSPL]

Like these ones!??
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We are now counting the hours for the first flight of ANKA-3.

 

[MirageBlue]

Ther is no radar for now, what i now ther will be italian radar. Ther is no inention to design radar, more important fighters need the radar. TFX and F16, avionics is Turkish from flywire to displays.

Isn't there an AESA radar that was in development for the F-16 in Turkey? Why can't a variant of it be used for the Hurjet?

... and two more ...

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Is it just me or does anyone else also feel that the Hurjet's radome blending with the canopy seems totally off? Spoils the look of the airplane totally IMO.

 

[dBSPL]

Isn't there an AESA radar that was in development for the F-16 in Turkey? Why can't a variant of it be used for the Hurjet?


Is it just me or does anyone else also feel that the Hurjet's radome blending with the canopy seems totally off? Spoils the look of the airplane totally IMO.

The integration of different scaled variants for F-16, AKINCI and KE is underway. On the Navy side, very challenging programmes are also ongoing. The Hurjet is basically an advanced training/LIFT jet that is progressing with TAI's own resources, so unless there is an LCA request for this aircraft by airforce, it is very likely that the aesa radar requirement for the export version will be outsourced.

 

[MirageBlue]

The integration of different scaled variants for F-16, AKINCI and KE is underway. On the Navy side, very challenging programmes are also ongoing. The Hurjet is basically an advanced training/LIFT jet that is progressing with TAI's own resources, so unless there is an LCA request for this aircraft by airforce, it is very likely that the aesa radar requirement for the export version will be outsourced.

As we've seen with almost every other AJT/LIFT with decent performance, there is a light fighter variant that emerges. It is how the T-50 evolved into the F-50 and FA-50.

It is also very likely to happen with the T-7A, as an export variant of a light fighter offered to nations that continue to use the F-5 or MiG-21 or have a LCA requirement.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a light fighter emerge from the Hurjet eventually. At which point it would make more sense to use an indigenous radar option.

 

[dBSPL]

As we've seen with almost every other AJT/LIFT with decent performance, there is a light fighter variant that emerges. It is how the T-50 evolved into the F-50 and FA-50.

It is also very likely to happen with the T-7A, as an export variant of a light fighter offered to nations that continue to use the F-5 or MiG-21 or have a LCA requirement.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a light fighter emerge from the Hurjet eventually. At which point it would make more sense to use an indigenous radar option.

Yes, however, this issue is also related to resource management and prioritisation, and there are very challenging conditions here. At the moment, even it is difficult to keep track of number of scaling and integration activities for how many different platforms in Aselsan's aesa radar groups alone. However, in the event of an LCA request for TAF, or at least in the event that the work on the Navy variant turns into a contract, the Hürjet' radar suite will also be required to achieve the standards, common infrastructure and interface that is started with the F-16 and then will the MMU. In fact, Hurjet's known statements about the radar choice are not very up-to-date. On the other hand, as I said, AKINCI, F-16 and KE integrations are urgent priorities in aircrafts group at the moment. As far as we know, the first aesa radar suites have been delivered to TAI and BAYKAR for the integration and test activities of AKINCI and F-16 platforms.

 

[MirageBlue]

Yes, however, this issue is also related to resource management and prioritisation, and there are very challenging conditions here. At the moment, even it is difficult to keep track of number of scaling and integration activities for how many different platforms in Aselsan's aesa radar groups alone. However, in the event of an LCA request for TAF, or at least in the event that the work on the Navy variant turns into a contract, the Hürjet' radar suite will also be required to achieve the standards, common infrastructure and interface that is started with the F-16 and then will the MMU. In fact, Hurjet's known statements about the radar choice are not very up-to-date. On the other hand, as I said, AKINCI, F-16 and KE integrations are urgent priorities in aircrafts group at the moment. As far as we know, the first aesa radar suites have been delivered to TAI and BAYKAR for the integration and test activities of AKINCI and F-16 platforms.

Is there a Naval variant of the Hurjet that is planned? Also as a LIFT or as a fighter?

 

[dBSPL]

Is there a Naval variant of the Hurjet that is planned? Also as a LIFT or as a fighter?

The Hurjet project is basically based on the development and commissioning of the platform needed by the Turkish Air Force for the Advanced Training of fighter jet pilots in the future.

A lot of complex things happened here over a period of about 20 years, and it was even considered that the MMU and the Advanced Training Jet could proceed directly through a common infrastructure, but I won't go into those details. In the end, the current form was initiated as a separate project, and we can also consider it as an intermediate step to make the MMU project risks more manageable in certain areas. The operational concept, as I said, is the need for a training jet and combat pilot training.

However, the fact that the Hürjet, which I constantly underline, is a project initiated with TAI's own resources is an important detail here. There is no unlimited state support and assurance like MMU. Therefore, TAI attaches equal importance to the export potential of this system. While the MMU has the strategic goal of indigenous development of all subsystems, the Hurjet has a more open concept in terms of cost control and project speed.

Yes, there is a preliminary study on the navy. This was first announced in 2021, I think. Lastly, it was confirmed once again last month. Even the president has mentioned that there is work on this. In the 2030s projection of the Turkish defense industry, there is a full-scale aircraft carrier target of approximately 55-60K displacement, more than twice the weight of the current LHD Anadolu.

As you will know very well, when you enter this field, you have to acquire some of these basic capabilities and platforms within your own capabilities. In this context, it is not yet clear whether the Hurjet Naval will be a preliminary intermediate stage and naval training aircraft for the MMU Naval, or whether this aircraft will be used directly in the formation of the naval air force as a combatant. However, these are included in the future target strategies.

 

[aziqbal]

The Hurjet project is basically based on the development and commissioning of the platform needed by the Turkish Air Force for the Advanced Training of fighter jet pilots in the future.

A lot of complex things happened here over a period of about 20 years, and it was even considered that the MMU and the Advanced Training Jet could proceed directly through a common infrastructure, but I won't go into those details. In the end, the current form was initiated as a separate project, and we can also consider it as an intermediate step to make the MMU project risks more manageable in certain areas. The operational concept, as I said, is the need for a training jet and combat pilot training.

However, the fact that the Hürjet, which I constantly underline, is a project initiated with TAI's own resources is an important detail here. There is no unlimited state support and assurance like MMU. Therefore, TAI attaches equal importance to the export potential of this system. While the MMU has the strategic goal of indigenous development of all subsystems, the Hurjet has a more open concept in terms of cost control and project speed.

Yes, there is a preliminary study on the navy. This was first announced in 2021, I think. Lastly, it was confirmed once again last month. Even the president has mentioned that there is work on this. In the 2030s projection of the Turkish defense industry, there is a full-scale aircraft carrier target of approximately 55-60K displacement, more than twice the weight of the current LHD Anadolu.

As you will know very well, when you enter this field, you have to acquire some of these basic capabilities and platforms within your own capabilities. In this context, it is not yet clear whether the Hurjet Naval will be a preliminary intermediate stage and naval training aircraft for the MMU Naval, or whether this aircraft will be used directly in the formation of the naval air force as a combatant. However, these are included in the future target strategies.

although it does make sense to use Hurjet for Naval aviation the stress and pressures Naval fixed aircraft have to endure are beyond what a jet trainer can handle

I think even China tried it never worked and they stuck with J15

 

[Celestyal]

Head engineer:

-In the near future, our plan is to fly our first prototype aircraft within the year. Then we will design 7 prototypes on the way to mass production. Then there will be tests of aircraft and systems, flight and ground tests. Besides, we will have some flight test platforms. We will also perform our tests on some platforms. We plan to deliver our aircraft to our Air Force by 2028.

-You see examples of this all over the world. The first prototype we produced will be in this geometry, and the second will be in the same way. We aim to reach a solution by going step by step in the face of the problems we have seen and encountered in ground tests and flight tests. These 7 tests are already planned to support these activities on our aircraft. We have a very short calendar. A plane to be delivered to the Air Force in 2028 means a very short timetable in terms of delivery, if you look at the examples all over the world. In this calendar, we need to do a lot of prototypes and experiments. These trials do not only need to be in flight, the aircraft will also be prepared with wind tunnels, ground tests, 'Iron Bird' tests and static tests. Maybe we'll have one static test too. We will produce another one of the same aircraft and perform our tests that will statically tire and force it. Besides, maybe we will have a fatigue test. We will produce it from the same plane and subject it to fatigue tests for a certain hour. We will perform these tests by constantly loading under revolutionary loads. We will try to clear a certain flight time and plan to hand it over to our forces as such.

-There is a design team of 1500 people, and a total of nearly 3,000 people are working on the aircraft.

-We are trying to establish a master-apprentice relationship. We are enlarging our team by recruiting new journeymen and apprentices, by using our experienced friends from HÜRKUŞ, HÜRJET, GÖKBEY and ATAK as masters and new graduates as apprentices. This growth took place at a really fast pace. At the moment, we have come across a certain plateau and we are planning to produce prototypes of these aircraft within 3-5 years and take the prototypes to flight, while maintaining our team on that plateau.

-We will have a surprise about MMU on May 1st. I won't explain now, let's just say wait for our surprise.

 

[Indos]

Head engineer:



-There is a design team of 1500 people, and a total of nearly 3,000 people are working on the aircraft.

-We are trying to establish a master-apprentice relationship. We are enlarging our team by recruiting new journeymen and apprentices, by using our experienced friends from HÜRKUŞ, HÜRJET, GÖKBEY and ATAK as masters and new graduates as apprentices. This growth took place at a really fast pace. At the moment, we have come across a certain plateau and we are planning to produce prototypes of these aircraft within 3-5 years and take the prototypes to flight, while maintaining our team on that plateau.

-We will have a surprise about MMU on May 1st. I won't explain now, let's just say wait for our surprise.

How can it needs 1500 people as design team ? Indonesian aerospace only needs around 250 people to design N219 from scratch (without any foreign company consultants). The one that really needs huge design engineers are during detail design phase. @MirageBlue may have an opinion on this as he is an aerospace engineers.

Nice photo by the way. The best TFX photo so far

 

[Trisolaran]

How can it needs 1500 people as design team ? Indonesian aerospace only needs around 250 people to design N219 from scratch (without any foreign company consultants). The one that really needs huge design engineers are during detail design phase. @MirageBlue may have an opinion on this as he is an aerospace engineers.

Nice photo by the way. The best TFX photo so far

With large numbers of designers, it is possible to have specialists in different areas of design such as aerodynamics, materials, propulsion, electronics, and more.This can lead to a more efficient and effective design process, with each designer able to focus on their area of expertise.
Also having a large team of designers can accelerate the design process and there is more opportunity for designers to work together, share ideas, and catch mistakes .This can lead to more innovative and creative solutions to design problems.

 

[Indos]

With large numbers of designers, it is possible to have specialists in different areas of design such as aerodynamics, materials, propulsion, electronics, and more.This can lead to a more efficient and effective design process, with each designer able to focus on their area of expertise.
Also having a large team of designers can accelerate the design process and there is more opportunity for designers to work together, share ideas, and catch mistakes .This can lead to more innovative and creative solutions to design problems.

In aerospace design team there must be aerodynamics, structure, avionics, propulsion, electronics engineers.

Maybe the complexity is greater as N250 needs more than 300 design engineers, maybe around 500 people as it uses fly by wire system.

Maybe we should wait @MirageBlue opinion

My speculation is that these 1500 people also include other Turkish companies which is not airframer (TAI), like ASELSAN and others

 

[dBSPL]

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Head engineer:

-In the near future, our plan is to fly our first prototype aircraft within the year. Then we will design 7 prototypes on the way to mass production. Then there will be tests of aircraft and systems, flight and ground tests. Besides, we will have some flight test platforms. We will also perform our tests on some platforms. We plan to deliver our aircraft to our Air Force by 2028.

-You see examples of this all over the world. The first prototype we produced will be in this geometry, and the second will be in the same way. We aim to reach a solution by going step by step in the face of the problems we have seen and encountered in ground tests and flight tests. These 7 tests are already planned to support these activities on our aircraft. We have a very short calendar. A plane to be delivered to the Air Force in 2028 means a very short timetable in terms of delivery, if you look at the examples all over the world. In this calendar, we need to do a lot of prototypes and experiments. These trials do not only need to be in flight, the aircraft will also be prepared with wind tunnels, ground tests, 'Iron Bird' tests and static tests. Maybe we'll have one static test too. We will produce another one of the same aircraft and perform our tests that will statically tire and force it. Besides, maybe we will have a fatigue test. We will produce it from the same plane and subject it to fatigue tests for a certain hour. We will perform these tests by constantly loading under revolutionary loads. We will try to clear a certain flight time and plan to hand it over to our forces as such.

-There is a design team of 1500 people, and a total of nearly 3,000 people are working on the aircraft.

-We are trying to establish a master-apprentice relationship. We are enlarging our team by recruiting new journeymen and apprentices, by using our experienced friends from HÜRKUŞ, HÜRJET, GÖKBEY and ATAK as masters and new graduates as apprentices. This growth took place at a really fast pace. At the moment, we have come across a certain plateau and we are planning to produce prototypes of these aircraft within 3-5 years and take the prototypes to flight, while maintaining our team on that plateau.

-We will have a surprise about MMU on May 1st. I won't explain now, let's just say wait for our surprise.

According to these statements, it is understood that the big ceremony will be held on 1 May. We may also see the first flight of ANKA-3 on the same date.

There is great labour, devotion and hard work in this project. They have achieved the impossible within an incredible project schedule. We should honour our engineers and technicians. The choice of Labour Day is therefore a nice gesture.