Text of the Trans-Pacific Partnership

[Viva_Viet]

Okay, I just went through chapter 8 (only chapter 8) Technical Barriers to Trade Chapter, all 38 pages of it, here is my thought

1. The chapter mainly focus on establishing procedure to increase clarity on procedures for evaluationing technical barrier, not eliminating the barrier outright. (Which is understandable since the whole IP section of the deal is focused on restricting outward flow of technology via patenting rights)

2. The chapter also spent a lot of efforts providing suggestions for cooperation in establishing technical standards and procedures. This has broader impact as the chapter also suggest that all party involved should endeavor to share the standards and procedures as soon as possible with WTO members.

3. There will be a committee forming in regulating tech barrier within the year, we will need to wait and see their performance.

4. Specific item regarding to several items are discussed:
Wine: (Focusing on proper labeling of product related information, such as alcohol content, production origin)
Information and Communication Technology (ICT) Products that Use Cryptography: (Specifically, no party is allowed to impose regulations to force transfer of technology, also, it is stated that "If a Party requires positive assurance that an ITE product meets a standard or technical regulation for electromagnetic compatibility, it shall accept a supplier's declaration of conformity.")
Pharmaceuticals: "no Party shall require sale or related financial data concerning the marketing of the product as part of such a determination (of whether to authorize the release of certain pharmaceuticals to the local market)"
"Where a Party requires periodic reauthorisation for a pharmaceutical product that has previously received marketing authorisation by the Party, the Party shall allow the pharmaceutical product to remain on its market under the conditions of the previous marketing authorisation pending its decision on the periodic reauthorisation, except where a Party identifies a significant health or safety concern."
There are also additional lines ensuring that local government cannot impede market presence of certain pharmaceutical products unless it can cite major health concerns. I wouldn't clog up the lines with the quotes, but it is a rather interesting read.
Cosmetics: Pretty much the same thing for Pharmaceuticals
Medical Devices: Pretty much the same thing for Pharmaceuticals
Proprietary Formulas for prepackaged foods and food additives: Even if a local party gathers secret information regarding to a certain product, it may only use such information in administrative and legal procedures while maintaining its confidentiality.
Organic Products: Individual parties are encouraged to accept equivalent standards from other parties and if they do not, they "shall", on request, explain their reasons.


TLDR version, here is my thought on technical barrier section:

JESUS CHRIST, HOW MUCH DID THE BIG PHARMA, COSMETICS AND MEDICAL PRODUCERS LOBBY FOR THIS? As expected from the preliminary leak, TTP is indeed mostly about protecting existing IP and by extension, facilitate trade while maintaining technical barriers. While the other agreements are pretty tame and mundane. The section concerning pharmaceutical, cosmetics and medical devices give unparalleled power to current patent holders in regarding to other markets.

Not only there are specific guidelines preventing local governments from assess the cost, product procedure and assess related technical information, it also have specific guidelines preventing local government from suspending or preventing the presences of foreign products from flooding the local market. Guess which one will benefit which.

When I have time, I will read the other chapters and make observation as well, but I suspect it will be similar. Someone read on section concerning Japan-US agriculture/automobile trade, that section will be important as well.

Wow, your analyst is really impressed.

Base on TPP text transated and analysed into VNese, TPP deal will create a win-win deal btween TPP members, but each TPP member need to retructure to fit with TPP rules.

So, I think US pharma will not flood the small VN market( dont know if they do the same to JP), they need to sit and talk wt us if we feel unhappy wt their pharma, medical.

 

[William Hung]

JESUS CHRIST, HOW MUCH DID THE BIG PHARMA, COSMETICS AND MEDICAL PRODUCERS LOBBY FOR THIS? As expected from the preliminary leak, TTP is indeed mostly about protecting existing IP and by extension, facilitate trade while maintaining technical barriers. While the other agreements are pretty tame and mundane. The section concerning pharmaceutical, cosmetics and medical devices give unparalleled power to current patent holders in regarding to other markets.

Not only there are specific guidelines preventing local governments from assess the cost, product procedure and assess related technical information, it also have specific guidelines preventing local government from suspending or preventing the presences of foreign products from flooding the local market. Guess which one will benefit which.

Um, the 2 quotes you have given from the Pharma section does not align with your insinuation about the “unparalleled power” given to the Pharma producers.

Your first quotes says that, in order to get authorisation to introduce its products into a local market, it is not mandatory for the producers to provide sales or related financial data concerning the marketing of the said product:

"no Party shall require sale or related financial data concerning the marketing of the product as part of such a determination (of whether to authorize the release of certain pharmaceuticals to the local market)"

So, how is this giving them “unparalleled power”?


Your second quotes says that, for a product that has once received marketing authorisation, if it requires re-authorisation, then that product will be allowed to remain on the market until the other party’s decision concerning reauthorisarion is made:

"Where a Party requires periodic reauthorisation for a pharmaceutical product that has previously received marketing authorisation by the Party, the Party shall allow the pharmaceutical product to remain on its market under the conditions of the previous marketing authorisation pending its decision on the periodic reauthorisation, except where a Party identifies a significant health or safety concern."

Err, what is wrong with that? lol So a govt can require periodic reauthorisation of a product, and after an authorisation is given, the product can remain on the market until the next reauthorisation decision are made. Is there something wrong about that?

So I don’t know how you’ve come to the conclusion that the Pharma producers are given “unparalleled power” just by using these 2 quotes? Are these the 2 worse provisions that you can dig up?

I was thinking the same thing - color revolution by stealth.

Maybe some Vietnamese guy should create forum accounts false flagging as a Aussie/westerner to do some stealth PR work for Vietnam by creating threads like “Stories about Vietnam that’s not reported in Western media” or “Interesting personalities in Vietnam” or “Vietnamese cultural industry”.

 

[tranquilium]

Um, the 2 quotes you have given from the Pharma section does not align with your insinuation about the “unparalleled power” given to the Pharma producers.

Your first quotes says that, in order to get authorisation to introduce its products into a local market, it is not mandatory for the producers to provide sales or related financial data concerning the marketing of the said product:


So, how is this giving them “unparalleled power”?


Your second quotes says that, for a product that has once received marketing authorisation, if it requires re-authorisation, then that product will be allowed to remain on the market until the other party’s decision concerning reauthorisarion is made:


Err, what is wrong with that? lol So a govt can require periodic reauthorisation of a product, and after an authorisation is given, the product can remain on the market until the next reauthorisation decision are made. Is there something wrong about that?

So I don’t know how you’ve come to the conclusion that the Pharma producers are given “unparalleled power” just by using these 2 quotes? Are these the 2 worse provisions that you can dig up?

This means that information such as production cost, sales data of saying drug from other countries as well as a number of other information are now unavailable to the government receiving market. At the same time, re-authorization also guarantees that local government cannot stop the sale of said production in the local market without major cause from technical side such as health risk.

Now, this is not that relevant to markets that do not planning to have a native industry. However, part of tools in facilitating native industry growth when it is in the infantile stage, a very important one, is the ability to keep out or limit the availability of foreign competition so that the native industry has a chance to grow and develop. This is also part of the reason why SOE are often the companies spearheading a nation's starting industry----they receive backing directly from the government and are more resilient to outside competition. With the guidelines established TPP, the signing nation lose this ability. Hence it will heavily favor already developed nations which already possess a pool of patents and suppressing growth of native industries in developing nations.

Wow, your analyst is really impressed.

Base on TPP text transated and analysed into VNese, TPP deal will create a win-win deal btween TPP members, but each TPP member need to retructure to fit with TPP rules.

So, I think US pharma will not flood the small VN market( dont know if they do the same to JP), they need to sit and talk wt us if we feel unhappy wt their pharma, medical.

Take Vietnam for example, if you don't want US drug company to enter your nation. Before TPP, you have several options:

1. Imposing tariff on the product to make it less profitable and competitive.
2. Citing local regulations and requirements which prevent said product from qualifying for approval
3. For some products, you may also citing said product is unsafe according to the producer's local standard (which is typically higher in producer's country)
4. If everything fails, citing that the company must make tech transfer, which may discourage said company from coming in or at least get transferred tech out of the deal.

With TPP, these methods are rendered ineffective:

Method 1 is rendered (partially) ineffective by guilelines prohibiting local government from access previous sales and cost data. Though by chapter 8 alone tariff is not prohibited, so the country may still chose to arbitrarily impose something. I have to read chapters regarding to trade tariff to say more.

Method 2 is rendered ineffective by the following terms:
"7bis. Each Party shall make its determination on whether to grant marketing authorisation for a specific pharmaceutical product on the basis of:
(a) information, including, where appropriate, pre-clinical and clinical data, on safety and efficacy;
(b) information on manufacturing quality of the product;
(c) labelling information related to safety, efficacy and use of the product; and
(d) other matters that may directly affect the health or safety of the user of the product.
To this end, no Party shall require sale or related financial data concerning the marketing of the product as part of such a determination. Further, each Party shall endeavour not to require pricing data as part of the determination."
Aside from item (d), all the other items are provided and controlled by the seller instead of determined by the local government. Inspection clauses in the chapter also preventing local government from assessing the production source without prior notification and appointment.
Also:
"With respect to applications for marketing authorisation for pharmaceutical products, each Party shall accept for review safety, efficacy, and manufacturing quality information submitted by a person seeking marketing authorisation in a format that is consistent with the principles found in the International Conference on Harmonisation of Technical Requirements for Registration of Pharmaceuticals for Human Use Common Technical Document (CTD), including any amendments thereto, recognising that the CTD does not necessarily address all aspects relevant to a Party’s determination to approve marketing authorisation for a particular product.18"

Method 3 is render ineffective by:
"No Party shall require that a pharmaceutical product receive marketing authorisation from the country of manufacture as a condition for the product receiving marketing authorisation from the Party."

Method 4 is rendered ineffective by the confidentiality clauses in other parts of the chapter.

With the timely approval clause, you also can't lock the product in administrative trap (though how much is enforceable is debatable)

Basically, as far as FTA goes, TPP effectively eliminated a lot of protective measurement from weaker nations while strengthening the already established producers. This is less severe in the other sectors, but in pharmaceutical, cosmetics and medical devices, I honestly don't see anyone without a well established industry in the area cope well. Hence my observation that the big pharmas must have lobbied awful a lot of money to get these conditions pushed through.

 

[William Hung]

This means that information such as production cost, sales data of saying drug from other countries

It only say those details are not required for authorisation determination. It doesn’t say that the govt can’t demand the producers to disclose their sales or other related financial details for other purposes (e.g. investigating tax fraud).

Besides, why is it necessary to examine sales and financial details related to marketing in order to authorise marketing into a local market? Or more importantly, how would this requirement (to demand related financial details for marketing authorisation) help stop products from flooding into the local market?

as well as a number of other information are now unavailable to the government receiving market.

What “other information” are now unavailable? (not a rhetorical question. I would like to know)

At the same time, re-authorization also guarantees that local government cannot stop the sale of said production in the local market without major cause from technical side such as health risk.

Of course, once you have given a marketing authorisation, you can’t just arbitrarily pull them from the market without any technical reason.

Now, this is not that relevant to markets that do not planning to have a native industry. However, part of tools in facilitating native industry growth when it is in the infantile stage, a very important one, is the ability to keep out or limit the availability of foreign competition so that the native industry has a chance to grow and develop. This is also part of the reason why SOE are often the companies spearheading a nation's starting industry----they receive backing directly from the government and are more resilient to outside competition. With the guidelines established TPP, the signing nation lose this ability. Hence it will heavily favor already developed nations which already possess a pool of patents and suppressing growth of native industries in developing nations.

Basically, you are arguing for protectionsim, to help local players to compete with foreign counter-parts, Govt should slap foreign competitors in the face with whatever arbitrary excuses it wants.

This however, will promote a culture of complicity and inefficiency where the top strategy for local companies is to suck up and make connections with the govt officials in order to get them to help fight your competitors for you.

 

[Viva_Viet]

Take Vietnam for example, if you don't want US drug company to enter your nation. Before TPP, you have several options:

1. Imposing tariff on the product to make it less profitable and competitive.
2. Citing local regulations and requirements which prevent said product from qualifying for approval
3. For some products, you may also citing said product is unsafe according to the producer's local standard (which is typically higher in producer's country)
4. If everything fails, citing that the company must make tech transfer, which may discourage said company from coming in or at least get transferred tech out of the deal.

With TPP, these methods are rendered ineffective:

Method 1 is rendered (partially) ineffective by guilelines prohibiting local government from access previous sales and cost data. Though by chapter 8 alone tariff is not prohibited, so the country may still chose to arbitrarily impose something. I have to read chapters regarding to trade tariff to say more.

Method 2 is rendered ineffective by the following terms:
"7bis. Each Party shall make its determination on whether to grant marketing authorisation for a specific pharmaceutical product on the basis of:
(a) information, including, where appropriate, pre-clinical and clinical data, on safety and efficacy;
(b) information on manufacturing quality of the product;
(c) labelling information related to safety, efficacy and use of the product; and
(d) other matters that may directly affect the health or safety of the user of the product.
To this end, no Party shall require sale or related financial data concerning the marketing of the product as part of such a determination. Further, each Party shall endeavour not to require pricing data as part of the determination."
Aside from item (d), all the other items are provided and controlled by the seller instead of determined by the local government. Inspection clauses in the chapter also preventing local government from assessing the production source without prior notification and appointment.
Also:
"With respect to applications for marketing authorisation for pharmaceutical products, each Party shall accept for review safety, efficacy, and manufacturing quality information submitted by a person seeking marketing authorisation in a format that is consistent with the principles found in the International Conference on Harmonisation of Technical Requirements for Registration of Pharmaceuticals for Human Use Common Technical Document (CTD), including any amendments thereto, recognising that the CTD does not necessarily address all aspects relevant to a Party’s determination to approve marketing authorisation for a particular product.18"

Method 3 is render ineffective by:
"No Party shall require that a pharmaceutical product receive marketing authorisation from the country of manufacture as a condition for the product receiving marketing authorisation from the Party."

Method 4 is rendered ineffective by the confidentiality clauses in other parts of the chapter.

With the timely approval clause, you also can't lock the product in administrative trap (though how much is enforceable is debatable)

Basically, as far as FTA goes, TPP effectively eliminated a lot of protective measurement from weaker nations while strengthening the already established producers. This is less severe in the other sectors, but in pharmaceutical, cosmetics and medical devices, I honestly don't see anyone without a well established industry in the area cope well. Hence my observation that the big pharmas must have lobbied awful a lot of money to get these conditions pushed through.

We dont need to impose tariff on the product cos it may make US impose tariff on our product,too. So we can:

1. Keep buying medicine from CN,India and specially fom France, most of Vnese love Frenvh medicine.

2. Let pple die, we always die in the conflict, some sick pple die will not be our big problem.

3. The best way is to re negotiation the Pharma sectors, TPP deal allowed VN to do that.

 

[Lazgrane]

If I take it right the pharma ip won't have to provide financial data on authorization and they can continue to sell their medicines while waiting for reauthorization.

The ability to authorize those medicines still lie in our hand.

 

[Abacin]

Naturally. There will be tariff free border between Vietnam and Japan/ US. In fact, Vietnam's largest trading partner is Japan/US. The combined trade between the three exceeds $75 Billion. That will only grow to over $100 Billion mark in the next 5-10 years.

Remember, trade between Vietnam-JAPAN/USA favors Vietnam; meaning Vietnam profits because US/ Japan imports more from Vietnam than they do export. Whereas in regards to the China-Vietnam bilateral trade of $60 billion per annum --- the balance of trade favors China. China is milking Vietnam, literally and figuratively.

This is not mutualism, nor is it commensalism. It is a parasitic relationship.



1. The Chinese are milking you for $60 billion ; like a milking cow
2. They are encroaching your borders and your maritime territories

There is no shame. Literally stealing your economic liberty, and putting a stranglehold on Vietnam. And thick skin and face to dare claim your territories and build islands on your maritime territory.

Arrogant face truly.

Vietnam has a huge deficit to China because Vietnam relies on China for its industrialization. Without Chinese equipment and parts, Vietnam is not able to make competitive products.

Not all countries can become world's manufacturing center. Only China, United States, former Soviet Union and Unified Europe can. Unfortunately United States's manufacturing power is weakened by its focus on finance and laws; Soviet Union collapsed and Europe is still divided. This makes China the most competitive manufacturing center in this planet. Japanese companies paid the price to ignore this fact. Many Multinationals investing in Vietnam because Vietnam is close to China culturally and geographically while the wage is much cheaper. Even though they put assembly factories in Vietnam, they still import many equipment and parts from China to take advantage of Chinese role as the most cost effective manufacturing center.

If Japan continues to ignore the role as China as the most cost effective manufacturing center, devaluation of Yen or TPP will not save Japanese economy.
Japan's economy falls back into recession again
Japan's economy falls back into recession again - BBC News

 

[TaiShang]

Remember, trade between Vietnam-JAPAN/USA favors Vietnam; meaning Vietnam profits because US/ Japan imports more from Vietnam than they do export. Whereas in regards to the China-Vietnam bilateral trade of $60 billion per annum --- the balance of trade favors China. China is milking Vietnam, literally and figuratively.

1. Remember, China is Vietnam's largest trading partner. In calculation bilateral trade volume, you do not lump countries together like they are same political entity. Hence there is no such thing as Vietnam-JP/US bilateral trade. Yours is more like creating some imaginary Vietnam-JP-US solidarity in the mind of the gullible.

There is no such thing in real life, my friend.

2. You do try to milk Vietnam, either, literally and figuratively, if I may borrow from you. And you do try to milk Vietnam not only figuratively and literally, but also deceptively.

AmCham Vietnam | Vietnam detains two in corruption case involving Japanese ODA

Japan to Vietnam: Give back our bribe money - The FCPA Blog - The FCPA Blog

6 Vietnam railway officials tried for bribery linked to Japanese ODA - Le Viêt Nam, aujourd'hui

You do not LOVE Vietnam, if I may try to become sentimental to impress our Vietnamese friends, like you try to do.

 

[vtnsx]

It only say those details are not required for authorisation determination. It doesn’t say that the govt can’t demand the producers to disclose their sales or other related financial details for other purposes (e.g. investigating tax fraud).

Besides, why is it necessary to examine sales and financial details related to marketing in order to authorise marketing into a local market? Or more importantly, how would this requirement (to demand related financial details for marketing authorisation) help stop products from flooding into the local market?




What “other information” are now unavailable? (not a rhetorical question. I would like to know)




Of course, once you have given a marketing authorisation, you can’t just arbitrarily pull them from the market without any technical reason.





Basically, you are arguing for protectionsim, to help local players to compete with foreign counter-parts, Govt should slap foreign competitors in the face with whatever arbitrary excuses it wants.

This however, will promote a culture of complicity and inefficiency where the top strategy for local companies is to suck up and make connections with the govt officials in order to get them to help fight your competitors for you.

Before China got rich, it agreed to do whatever the US asked them to. Now, China is rich, China doesn't need the US so they now want to bend the rules.

In the end, in doesn't really matter. TPP is an advantage for free trade. I do a lot of importing and exporting. I know it's a benefit. Regardless of what these Chinese think. I don't even know why this become their business and got their nose right into the TPP deal. It is none of their business. The only explanation for this type of behavior is they are worried. They should be worried. No one gives a ch%t about their concerns. Like really.

@Viet
@Nihonjin1051
@Viva_Viet
@dichoi
@Rechoice

 

[Viva_Viet]

Vietnam has a huge deficit to China because Vietnam relies on China for its industrialization. Without Chinese equipment and parts, Vietnam is not able to make competitive products.

Not all countries can become world's manufacturing center. Only China, United States, former Soviet Union and Unified Europe can. Unfortunately United States's manufacturing power is weakened by its focus on finance and laws; Soviet Union collapsed and Europe is still divided. This makes China the most competitive manufacturing center in this planet. Japanese companies paid the price to ignore this fact. Many Multinationals investing in Vietnam because Vietnam is close to China culturally and geographically while the wage is much cheaper. Even though they put assembly factories in Vietnam, they still import many equipment and parts from China to take advantage of Chinese role as the most cost effective manufacturing center.

If Japan continues to ignore the role as China as the most cost effective manufacturing center, devaluation of Yen or TPP will not save Japanese economy.
Japan's economy falls back into recession again
Japan's economy falls back into recession again - BBC News

Pls read TPP text first.

VN almost has No competitor in Textile, wooden made field, JP almost have no competitor in car and machinery export to TPP nations

So, both dont need CN components. TPP market is big enough for us.

 

[vtnsx]

Vietnam has a huge deficit to China because Vietnam relies on China for its industrialization. Without Chinese equipment and parts, Vietnam is not able to make competitive products.

Not all countries can become world's manufacturing center. Only China, United States, former Soviet Union and Unified Europe can. Unfortunately United States's manufacturing power is weakened by its focus on finance and laws; Soviet Union collapsed and Europe is still divided. This makes China the most competitive manufacturing center in this planet. Japanese companies paid the price to ignore this fact. Many Multinationals investing in Vietnam because Vietnam is close to China culturally and geographically while the wage is much cheaper. Even though they put assembly factories in Vietnam, they still import many equipment and parts from China to take advantage of Chinese role as the most cost effective manufacturing center.

If Japan continues to ignore the role as China as the most cost effective manufacturing center, devaluation of Yen or TPP will not save Japanese economy.
Japan's economy falls back into recession again
Japan's economy falls back into recession again - BBC News

Vietnam can become an industrialized country when they begin to see more FDI. VCP has to open up and invite these talented overseas people. It starts with mining for iron and other materials then start at the foundry then machine shop. It ain't hard to become an industrialized country. It requires money just like any start up. I have an Engineering Physics degree and I know far better than all of you Chinese.

@Viet
@Nihonjin1051
@Viva_Viet
@dichoi
@Rechoice
@William Hung

 

[Viva_Viet]

Trans-Pacific Partnership Due to be Signed in February 2016

Nov 22, 2015 By Christian Benson | World The prime minister says the United States appears to be the source of the strongest domestic concerns to the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement. Mr. Obama was speaking at the first leaders' meeting of the 12 TPP countries since the deal was concluded last month. "We were able to complete the negotiations thanks to the commitment of the leaders here", Mr. Obama said at the beginning of the meeting. "We want to be careful not to end up - for the world, not for Hong Kong itself - in the situation where a few of these agreements actually make things rather complicated and confusing for enterprises, particularly small and medium enterprises (SMEs) that prevail in many parts of this region's economy, including Hong Kong", he detailed.

The Philippine Trade Department said it viewed TPP as a significant component of the Philippine worldwide trade strategy and indicated its intention to join the regional trade group. The U.S. also pledged to support the Philippines' bid for TPP membership. The TPP links together 12 countries that represent almost 40 percent of the world economy. Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton on Thursday took another jab at Republicans for failing to ramp up worker-training programs to help Americans compete amid support for expanding global trade.

The fact that everybody here stepped up and made some hard decisions that are going to pay off for decades to come I think is a testimony to the vision that was reflected. The 5,700-page agreement, authored by the lawyers of multinationals, is predicted to affect every market though only five of its 29 chapters deal with trade. "TPP is one of the most critical, and potentially most transformative, trade negotiations in decades", said Jerome Ashton, Managing Editor, global Trade, Bloomberg BNA. Freeland said she had good conversations about the issue with Agriculture Minister Lawrence MacAulay and Economic Development Minister Navdeep Bains before leaving Canada. That is good news for Utah companies that manufacture surgical products according to Froman who explained that once the TPP passes those goods will be nearly duty-free in all eleven countries included in the trade proposal.

"They understand the mandate on which we were elected, they understand that a very important hallmark of this Liberal government is engagement and consultation", she said. Bills Insider Trans-Pacific Partnership Due to be Signed in February 2016