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Terrorists destroy Mosque, kill Namazis during Jumaah Prayers

killing people and taking hostages in the mosque is part of your culture.

Seizure

In the early morning of November 20, 1979, the imam of the Grand Mosque, Sheikh Mohammed al-Subayil, was preparing to lead the prayers for the fifty thousand worshipers who had gathered for the first prayer of the Islamic year. He was interrupted by insurgents who procured weapons from under their robes, chained the gates shut and killed several policemen.[12] The number of insurgents has been given as "at least 500"[13] and "four to five hundred", which included several women and children who had joined Otaibi's movement.[11] At the time, the Grand Mosque was being renovated by the Saudi Binladin Group in what was the most prestigious construction contract in the Islamic world. An employee of the organization was able to report the seizure to corporate headquarters before the insurgents cut the telephone lines. A representative of the Binladin Group was thus the first to notify King Khalid.[8]

The insurgents released most of the hostages, locking the remainder in the sanctuary, and took positions in the upper levels of the mosque, with snipers in the minarets, from which they commanded the grounds. No one outside the mosque knew how many hostages remained, how many militants were in the mosque and what sort of preparations they had made. Soon after the seizure, about a hundred security officers from the Interior Ministry attempted to retake the mosque and were decisively turned back with heavy casualties. The survivors were quickly joined by units of the Saudi Army and National Guard. The Pakistan Army, which was stationed at the city of Tabuk, was also called in to retake the shrine after poor results from the Saudi National Guard.[8]

By the evening, the entire city of Mecca had been evacuated. Prince Sultan, then-Minister of Defense, rushed to the city to set up a field command. Sultan appointed his nephew Turki bin Faisal Al Saud, head of the Al Mukhabarat Al A'amah, to take over the forward command post several hundred meters from the mosque, where Turki would remain for the next several weeks. However, the first order of business was to seek the approval of the ulema, which was led by Abdul Aziz bin Baz. The Qur'an forbids any violence within the Grand Mosque, to the extent that plants cannot be uprooted without explicit religious sanction. ibn Baaz found himself in a delicate situation, especially as he had previously taught Otaibi in Medina. Regardless, the ulema issued a fatwa allowing deadly force to be used in retaking the mosque.[14]

[edit] Siege

With religious approval granted, Prince Sultan ordered frontal assaults on three of the main gates, preceded by an artillery barrage. The assaulting force never got close to breaking through the insurgents' defenses, while snipers continued to pick off members of the security forces whenever they showed themselves. The mosque's public address system was used to broadcast the insurgents' message throughout the streets of Mecca. Confusion reigned at the field command, where several senior princes, the heads of the armed forces and military attachés from France and Pakistan gave contradictory advice. In the middle of the day, Sultan ordered helicopters to lower troops on ropes directly into the courtyard in the center of the mosque, which turned out to be a suicide mission. At this point, King Khalid appointed Turki head of the operation.[15]

On November 25, the Arab Socialist Action Party - Arabian Peninsula issued a statement from Beirut alleging to clarify the demands of the insurgents. The party, however, denied any involvement of its own in the seizure.[16]

Lawrence Wright reports that only three Frenchmen were called in, members of the highly trained GIGN counter-terrorism unit. Because non-Muslims are not allowed in the holy city, they converted to Islam in a brief formal ceremony by Saudi religious leaders.[17] Saudi officials deny the French actually entered Mecca. According to Wright, who interviewed Saudi officials, flooding and electrocuting were dismissed as impractical and lethal to the hostages, but an attempt to subdue the resistance with non-lethal gas failed also. Grenades were dropped into the chambers through holes that were drilled in the mosque courtyard, and, more than two weeks after the revolt began, "the surviving rebels finally surrendered." [18]

The battle officially left "255 pilgrims, troops and fanatics" killed "another 560 injured ... although diplomats suggested the toll was higher." Military casualties were 127 dead and 451 injured. [19]

[edit] The Bin Laden family's alleged involvement

The Bin Laden family and business resources were allegedly involved in this conflict. Dr. Daly, an adjunct scholar at Washington's Middle East Institute and author of Jane's Intelligence Review, says, "It has been reported that one of Osama's half brothers was arrested as a sympathizer of the takeover but was later exonerated."[citation needed]

According to Cooperative Research:

In the 1960s Osama bin Laden's half-brother Mahrous bin Laden joined a rebel group opposed to the Saudi government. With his assistance, in 1979 the rebels smuggled weapons into Mecca, Saudi Arabia, using trucks belonging to the bin Laden family company. 500 rebels then seized the Grand Mosque in Mecca (sic), Islam's holiest mosque in its holiest city. They try, but fail, to overthrow the Saudi royal family. All the men who took part are later beheaded except Mahrous. Eventually he is released from prison because of the close ties between the bin Ladens and the Saudi royal family. Mahrous apparently abandons the rebel cause and joins the family business. He is eventually made a head of the Medina branch and a member of the board. He will still hold these positions on 9/11. But a newspaper reports that "his past [is] not forgiven and most important decisions in the [bin Laden family business] are made without Mahrous' input."[20][21] [22]

Lawrence Wright reports that the bin Laden family actually provided important assistance in taking back the mosque by providing maps and technical information about the mosque critical in the assault.[23]

Steve Coll's Ghost Wars states that the weapons were transported into the mosque prior to the takeover.[24] Bin Laden company trucks were a common sight in the mosque, as the company won a contract to renovate and modernize the mosque in 1973. The bin Ladens did help the regime during the takeover, by giving Saudi security forces the architectural plans for the site.

[edit] Aftermath

The insurgents were anti-Western and included in their demands, broadcast from the mosque loudspeakers, the cutoff of oil exports to the United States and expulsion of all foreign civilian and military experts from the Arabian peninsula.[25] Nonetheless, in Iran, Ayatollah Khomeini told radio listeners, "It is not beyond guessing that this is the work of criminal American imperialism and international Zionism." [26] [27]

Grand Mosque Seizure - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Madness indeed, like Mr. Araz described.
Whoever is behind this or planned this, could be 1 single person with a sick and twisted mind thinking he's going to heaven by doing this, well I can say that he most likely deserved a one way ticket to hell forever by doing this, and i'm no expert of my own faith, but I do know the grapes are sour for this person.
Anyhow, this has happened along the Afghan-Pakistani border, and I seriously wonder who or what is behind this, who's supporting this, and i'm not going after India or jumping the bandwagon, let's see what our incompetent government comes up with after this, if they blame India or "point at India" or refer to them without any proof or solid words to back it up, or if we hear different voices or opinions inside our own government about who could've done this, then this is yet another lost case.
God Bless the souls who went to these prayers and died.
It's certainly no good indication for any progress in the northern region of Pakistan/Afghanistan, alot of these attacks occur in the North of our country, we have little control of our own territory for crying out loud, it's a shame, if the writ of the government is established over in the north, then we can hopefully see a decrease in these malicious and cowardly attacks on innocent people, who most likely were in the mosque praying for brighter and better times for Pakistan and the rest of the world.
 
Quick question...

How can anyone prove it was a suicide bomber and not something planted, or perhaps launched so quickly after the blast ?
 
Quick question...

How can anyone prove it was a suicide bomber and not something planted, or perhaps launched so quickly after the blast ?

so u bracket all the muslims, in one culture, good man, and probably this is ur understanding of the article above. u can make a typical amercian scholar, jumps to conclusion without understanidng of the problem. thats why i do not wonder why u lost every war u stepped in, vietnam, japan where u ended up nuking them, Iraq, and now Afghanistan.

lastly culture does not exist in islam, its the values we abide by globaly, culturre belongs to specific region, or area, not geographacilly:cheesy:
 
Hon Asim,

Indian involvement (probably in funding) cannot be ruled out. But actual deed is done by the jehadis. You have seen the video from Swat posted elsewhere in this forum. It clearly glorifies the young men wearing suicide jackets on the way to carry out their dastardly act. Shouldn’t we be condemning the people who physically train and brain wash these idiots?
We should be killing them. That goes without saying, but just because one accuses India, doesn't mean we don't look within. You've got to fight the external enemies as well as the enemies within.

You need a holistic approach, focusing on one group of SOBs won't do anything. We're already battling the terrorists within, but letting India walk free, and they just come up with newer ways to attack us.
 
I've noticed that a lot of Americans on this forum side with India against Pakistan.

When watching CNN and other U.S. media its obvious that today's U.S. is not the same U.S. of the past that the founder of our nation, Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, adored.

Most Americans are good people but Zionists and Hindus in Washington have made a horrible image of U.S. in the world today and they are pulling U.S. down.

I think Pakistan should look out for its own best interst and the best interst of Pakistanis first. Forget our so called "ally" and if they bully us we bully them back. Its a shame that a Nuclear Power has to be a puppet for today's Zionist USA.
 
Soviets??

When they were in Afghanistan, didnt Pakistan send its irregulars and commandos, with CIA's help, to fight them? SO they struck back, guess that was a fair fight.

Are they still active in Pakistan? I thought the SU dissolved back in 1991. Geez the evil communist soviets..still lurking around!!!

Yes Soviets.

And they sponsored terrorist attacks in Pakistan in conjunction with the Afghan intelligence (Khad) before Pakistan intervened in Afghanistan - read some history, and read the post in context.
 
I know that they did not invent the tactic, but I was referring to the usage of such tactics in recent decades. But granted "exclusively" was a wrong choice of words. Let me rephrase that and say "predominately".
The hundreds of suicide attacks in Afghanistan and Iraq were all performed by Muslims in addition to the grand terrorist attack in Spain, GB, USA and many in Egypt, Turkey etc.
This justifies saying that they were predominately performed by Muslims and is not refuted by a few isolated cases.

I certainly didn't want to say only Muslims can be terrorist or anything along those lines but would you not agree that suicide bombing and martyrdom is a tactic and a concept mostly employed by Muslims these days?

Well I might not be a "dispassionate thinker" but I certainly do not use an axe to grind approach. I am open to correction and discussion. I am not save from making false assumptions but who is?
We are all captives to our history, environments and influences to a certain extent, but I am trying to "see beyond my own nose" if you know what I mean.

Blah. Rubbish. You come on a military forum with the name "Unbeliever". You've obviously got a religious agenda, and then you say you have "no axe to grind".

Oh poor innocent you, how noble thou art :)
 
Hon Asim,

Indian involvement (probably in funding) cannot be ruled out. But actual deed is done by the jehadis. You have seen the video from Swat posted elsewhere in this forum. It clearly glorifies the young men wearing suicide jackets on the way to carry out their dastardly act. Shouldn’t we be condemning the people who physically train and brain wash these idiots?

The hand that guides and nurtures the Islamic radical is more significant than the Islamic radical. If you kill off the second, the first will reproduce itself in another way. If you eliminate the support, there can be no terrorism anywhere.

My opinion is that it's a messy game. But thse groups cannot survive without foreign backing in Pakistan, just as for example, Chechnya cannot survive without foreign support.
 
"...thse groups cannot survive without foreign backing in Pakistan"

Persian gulf is where you should start. It's all about money & salafist/wahhabist sentiments merging.

The Indians are not launching attacks into FATA from eastern Afghanistan. Should you believe otherwise, you need to start providing some real credible evidence to motives that address the true sophistication required here to reach beyond some deadly and fruitless terror exchange.

India is playing a bigger stakes game than Pakistan and doing so with far greater nuance. Perhaps you can provide some real evidence of all this alleged duplicity but the practical matters speak loudly, unfortunately, otherwise.

The afghani government has permitted four Indian consulates and one embassy. This isn't unusual at all nor are they unusually staffed given their proximity and extensive civil affairs efforts.

They've spent over $1,000,000,000 to date. That's not "pledged" but "spent". Both the projects and efforts have been well-received by their Afghan hosts and doubly appreciated in light of their own human cost. That goodwill shines well upon India.

We've forty one nations invested in Afghanistan. India likely recognizes the dangers inherent in being bad guests in this specific instance. What do these alleged bombings accomplish that aren't being achieved daily by Pakistanis upon one another while adding to the chaos? Is it really believed at this board that your problems in FATA are the results of the C.I.A., Mossad, and RAW?

Not when you do their supposed handiwork so well on their behalf. More to the point, why would India risk linkage to acts of such marginal gain. The cost in embarassment before those forty other nations and their Afghan hosts would be incalculable. Remember, "embarassment" in this case would be the decisive weakening of ISAF/Afghanistan/America's arguments of sovereign responsibility and the rationales desired by Pakistan to justify the killings of afghans and ISAF personnel.

Confirmed proof of these actions would devastate U.S.-India relations.

The Pakistani side of the border is flush with Pakistani, afghan, uzbek, chechan, saudi, egyptian, Libyans, and probably Bosnians, British, and European muslims. The groups of such are uncountable as are the madrassas from which each and all may locally recruit.

All seem practiced in heinous behavior.

Finally, to date we've not seen the baluchi insurgency compell your army to defend your Gwadar jewel on behalf of your Chinese masters. Further, as eager as so many are here to claim Indian aggression from the Afghani border into FATA, your army remains resolutely determined to slay wind-mills in your east.

That speaks mega-decibals.

Thanks:).
 
blowing up the mosque in pakistan and taking over the mosque in mecca are based on the same motivation. its the same idea.
 
so u bracket all the muslims, in one culture, good man, and probably this is ur understanding of the article above. u can make a typical amercian scholar, jumps to conclusion without understanidng of the problem. thats why i do not wonder why u lost every war u stepped in, vietnam, japan where u ended up nuking them, Iraq, and now Afghanistan.

lastly culture does not exist in islam, its the values we abide by globaly, culturre belongs to specific region, or area, not geographacilly:cheesy:

I think you quoted the wrong person here, might want to go back and fix post #140

Thanks.
 
"...thse groups cannot survive without foreign backing in Pakistan"

Persian gulf is where you should start. It's all about money & salafist/wahhabist sentiments merging.

The Indians are not launching attacks into FATA from eastern Afghanistan. Should you believe otherwise, you need to start providing some real credible evidence to motives that address the true sophistication required here to reach beyond some deadly and fruitless terror exchange.

India is playing a bigger stakes game than Pakistan and doing so with far greater nuance. Perhaps you can provide some real evidence of all this alleged duplicity but the practical matters speak loudly, unfortunately, otherwise.

The afghani government has permitted four Indian consulates and one embassy. This isn't unusual at all nor are they unusually staffed given their proximity and extensive civil affairs efforts.

They've spent over $1,000,000,000 to date. That's not "pledged" but "spent". Both the projects and efforts have been well-received by their Afghan hosts and doubly appreciated in light of their own human cost. That goodwill shines well upon India.

We've forty one nations invested in Afghanistan. India likely recognizes the dangers inherent in being bad guests in this specific instance. What do these alleged bombings accomplish that aren't being achieved daily by Pakistanis upon one another while adding to the chaos? Is it really believed at this board that your problems in FATA are the results of the C.I.A., Mossad, and RAW?

Not when you do their supposed handiwork so well on their behalf. More to the point, why would India risk linkage to acts of such marginal gain. The cost in embarassment before those forty other nations and their Afghan hosts would be incalculable. Remember, "embarassment" in this case would be the decisive weakening of ISAF/Afghanistan/America's arguments of sovereign responsibility and the rationales desired by Pakistan to justify the killings of afghans and ISAF personnel.

Confirmed proof of these actions would devastate U.S.-India relations.

The Pakistani side of the border is flush with Pakistani, afghan, uzbek, chechan, saudi, egyptian, Libyans, and probably Bosnians, British, and European muslims. The groups of such are uncountable as are the madrassas from which each and all may locally recruit.

All seem practiced in heinous behavior.

Finally, to date we've not seen the baluchi insurgency compell your army to defend your Gwadar jewel on behalf of your Chinese masters. Further, as eager as so many are here to claim Indian aggression from the Afghani border into FATA, your army remains resolutely determined to slay wind-mills in your east.

That speaks mega-decibals.

Thanks:).

Dear, your own Army is saying the Indians are supporting Jihadis in Western Pakistan.

Even the Indians, HRW and many other organizations admit to supporting Jihadis in Kashmir.

The Persian Gulf areas might be supporting the Afghan Taliban financially. Would they want to destabilize Pakistan? I would find it difficult to pick their motivation for doing so when they are investing in the area fairly substantially.
 
As far as i see this barbaric act who ever has sponsored it have tried his level best to push Pakistan into civil war, Western media will raise the Shia/Sunni case here as they did in Iraq and succeded in taking control of things there.:eek:

This is very disturbing with today's Obama speech of "blank checks" and "terminate Al-qaeda and taliban from Pakistan and Afghanistan" now i see Mr.Obama has declared Pakistan as an enemy state, and kiddo's to our ******** President who has welcomed his speech, wut a shame on Zardari, afsoos hai seriously on this guy and his mentality.:angry:

the next thing we might see in the near future is America joining hands with it's European dogs and also India and taking over Pakistan and a start of world war III ofcourse China would never like to see Pakistan fall and Pakistan will not hesitate to target US bases in the gulf using its missiles unless they donot take action to close them and also we might also see Iran in this war and if Israel comes in then u can imagine that this world war III would become a holy war which we should avoid at all costs, May Allah help us come out of this quicksand.:undecided:
 

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