Terrorist Executions suspended: Military courts Bill to be Sabotaged in National Assembly

[waz]

We might be close to that point already.

Well as old saying goes, tell the last person to shut the lights before he leaves then.

Although I believe we will pull through.

 

[VCheng]

Well as old saying goes, tell the last person to shut the lights before he leaves then.

Although I believe we will pull through.

Not many will be able to leave. Untold millions will simply be crushed by a new hegemony instead of the old one, repeating a cycle true for centuries in South Asia. They could care less. It is the beneficiaries of the present system that will lose their privileges either as refugees or as new members of the plebes.

I also appreciate your hopefulness as a matter of faith, but I can see no tangible evidence to support that.

 

[waz]

I also appreciate your hopefulness as a matter of faith, but I can see no tangible evidence to support that.

You're right, my statement is faith based and I don't have the evidence to support it either.

 

[VCheng]

You're right, my statement is faith based and I don't have the evidence to support it either.

Age and time have taught me that man cannot live by faith alone, but I can respect your hope still the same.

 

[HughSlaman]

These judges and politicians only care about the Constitution as a means of blocking the course of justice.

The Election Commission itself was constituted illegally and unconstitutionally, (and the evidence for this fact was presented before the Supreme Court in 2013, yet then then Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhrey could not even address the evidence for this; he contented himself with irrelevant stupidities about the plaintiff's dual nationality.)

The Election Commission did not perform its constitutionally mandated duty to secure the 2013 elections from fraud, and only the most shameless fraud or the most useless idiot would now deny this.

Yet these blatant violations of the Constitution -- among many others -- are overlooked while the need of the hour, efficient courts that can convict terrorists without fear, are declared to be unconstitutional.

Don't complain if you see some kind of military takeover after this, my fellow Pakistanis! We are a country at war, and incompetent, shameless, fraudulently elected politicians are not what we need right now.

 

[waz]

Age and time have taught me that man cannot live by faith alone, but I can respect your hope still the same.

I agree.

 

[jackhunter]

All is set & understood greatly by the crouptors rulling in Pakistan that they will just agree to disagree?
Devils advocate is being played by PMLn & will be opposed by their partners in crime the so called opposition in their national congress.
From ISLAMI JAMMAT TO PPPP all of them are to oppose the bill.
Which could bring them out in the greys.
Its just another eye wash of the croupt politicians after so many of their blunders in Pakistani history.
But for military they have set up their stop watches for the big moment coming at a brutal speed .

 

[salarsikander]

Should we keep on rolling our country in circles. We saw the last of everything from civil dictatorship to military dictators. It's bad for the country, one person cannot be right all the time. It's time for us to move forward as a nation and stick to one system and keep improving it no matter how hard the times may be or else we are destined to be doomed.

Hi ,
In Case you dont relaize WE ARE DOMMED WITH these feudal corrupt incompetent, spineless coward civil leadership.

I would Accept harsh military dictatorship over these spineless corrupt politicians at any day.

Sticking to ONE system, even though its not suitable will certainly lead us to hell.
Dempcrazy only works best when you have an educated masses and competent politician.

If you remeber there was a ferry disater in South Korea where The president or prime minister resigned even though it wasnt his fault, he was made the ruler of country and if anything goes wrong you have to own it up.
In U.K a M.P back in 80s falsely Issues the traffic ticket to his wife and for that he had to resign until recently. This is professionalism, this is how democracy works in educated environment Unlike Pakistan

Over here kid died in THAR, kids Died in Peshawar i dodnt see no resignations whatsoever.

Because they dont give Shit about whats going on, as long as they re safe they dont care

 

[jackhunter]

Hi ,
In Case you dont relaize WE ARE DOMMED WITH these feudal corrupt incompetent, spineless coward civil leadership.

I would Accept harsh military dictatorship over these spineless corrupt politicians at any day.

Sticking to ONE system, even though its not suitable will certainly lead us to hell.
Dempcrazy only works best when you have an educated masses and competent politician.

If you remeber there was a ferry disater in South Korea where The president or prime minister resigned even though it wasnt his fault, he was made the ruler of country and if anything goes wrong you have to own up.
Over here Kids in THar died, ids in Peshawar died i dodnt see no resignations whatsoever

I think your argument will end up, on the comparison between dictatorship & western democracy ?
But there are wonderfull countries still working good on the international stage with military back or managed democracies unlike of the western democracies.
China is one of the great examples.
I think Pakistan needs same style system for a longer time with target progress of growth & education.
The democracy of now a days , is just a eye wash for the ultimate never ending rule if croupted political elites of Pakistan doing nothing for its problems like terrorisn .
All they want is their rule , even whole of Pakistan get butchered by terrorists ?

 

[salarsikander]

I think your argument will end up, on the comparison between dictatorship & western democracy ?
But there are wonderfull countries still working good on the international stage with military back or managed democracies unlike of the western democracies.
China is one of the great examples.
I think Pakistan needs same style system for a longer time with target progress of growth & education.
The democracy of now a days , is just a eye wash for the ultimate never ending rule if croupted political elites of Pakistan doing nothing for its problems like terrorisn .
All they want is their rule , even whole of Pakistan get butchered by terrorists ?

Hi,

I coudlnt have put it any better, you simply cant use the Western democracy style in Thiird World countries where corruption is in blood, The ruling Elite can hardly read and speak, if you just listen to justification they give theyre simply laughing stock. Yet some people still insist this should go on ! I mean are yiou serious? 90% of their degree are fake, they got into election through bribing and shit, their sole concern is just to increase their wealth and power at the expense of poor innocent mass theyre leeches of our society.
Secondly as people claim that Mushraf era was dictatorship is total B.S.

 

[jackhunter]

Hi,

I coudlnt have put it any better, you simply cant use the Western democracy style in Thiird World countries where corruption is in blood, The ruling Elite can hardly read and speak, if you just listen to justification they give theyre simply laughing stock. Yet some people still insist this should go on ! I mean are yiou serious? 90% of their degree are fake, they got into election through bribing and shit, their sole concern is just to increase their wealth and power at the expense of poor innocent mass theyre leeches of our society.
Secondly as people claim that Mushraf era was dictatorship is total B.S.

Thanks wise man !
I have no disagreements with you!
& I don't think that musharaf was angel but if we look Pakistan today guess he was ?
Pakistan needs strict & nationalist kind of uncroupt govt be it a military managed one.
But with these so called croupted democrats in power we only can for see a butchered nation in future.
Ruled by gangs of terrorists .

 

[SQ8]

Army goes back to Kyani era slumber and hope that the Peshawar tragedy becomes thing of the past.

The most likely, the fact remains.. Pakistanis will produce more kids than they lost in that in less than a month.. and life is cheap.. sad fact.. but it is.
141 were butchered.. horrible.. took 1 hour
1000+ died of sheer malnutrition in Sindh over months of not being able to eat or drink properly.. too bad nothing came on social media on that.

 

[VCheng]

This editorial argues against military courts:

Military courts: a wrong move - Newspaper - DAWN.COM

Military courts: a wrong move
Editorial

PAKISTAN should not have military courts, not in the expanded form envisioned by the military and political leadership of the country, not to try civilians on terrorism charges and not even for a limited period of time.

Military courts are simply not compatible with a constitutional democracy.

In the immediate aftermath of the Peshawar school massacre, politicians and the military leadership rightly came together to respond urgently to the terror threat that stalks this country.

What they did wrong was to decide on military courts as the lynchpin of a new strategy to fight terrorism.

Perhaps with a country convulsed with grief and the PML-N government on weak ground — given that until recently the party was insisting on dialogue with the elements behind the Peshawar calamity — there was little resistance to the military’s demand that terrorist suspects be tried in military courts, and presumably summarily executed thereafter.

Perhaps also the full range of opposition political parties present were overawed by the presence of the army chief and DG ISI in Peshawar, and those opposed to military courts decided that it was futile to oppose them in the circumstances.

Whatever the thinking of the political leadership that has brought the country to the verge of amending the Constitution and sundry laws to allow military courts to try terrorism suspects, it was unquestionably wrong.

Belatedly, some conscientious members of the political leadership have begun to speak out, led by senators who are perhaps less encumbered by party discipline than members of other legislatures.

When a new system of so-called justice requires overriding constitutionally guaranteed rights and the independence of the judiciary, surely that is no solution — even to terrorism and militancy.

There is a further problem, one mostly left unsaid: military courts are a populist move, meant to show a frightened public that the state can still be relied on to keep the peace and secure the nation.

Such populism often only begets more populism, leading to more deviations from the democratic path until there is no democracy left, not even in name.

This country has travelled down the path towards authoritarianism and dictatorship too many times, with too many disastrous consequences, to countenance deviations from a constitutional democracy today.

The question that should be asked is, why is the criminal justice system so poor at convicting the guilty? There are really just three steps: investigation, prosecution and judicial.

While the courts are often maligned for allowing the accused to walk free, it is at the investigation and prosecution stages that most of the cases are already lost. And where the judiciary is at fault, it is often because of a lack of protection offered to trial judges.

Can those problems not be urgently fixed in Pakistan? Does not a democratic system exist to strengthen and buttress the democratic system? Military courts are certainly not the answer.

Published in Dawn, December 31st, 2014

 

[HughSlaman]

This editorial argues against military courts:

Military courts: a wrong move - Newspaper - DAWN.COM

Military courts: a wrong move
Editorial

PAKISTAN should not have military courts, not in the expanded form envisioned by the military and political leadership of the country, not to try civilians on terrorism charges and not even for a limited period of time.

Military courts are simply not compatible with a constitutional democracy.

In the immediate aftermath of the Peshawar school massacre, politicians and the military leadership rightly came together to respond urgently to the terror threat that stalks this country.

What they did wrong was to decide on military courts as the lynchpin of a new strategy to fight terrorism.

Perhaps with a country convulsed with grief and the PML-N government on weak ground — given that until recently the party was insisting on dialogue with the elements behind the Peshawar calamity — there was little resistance to the military’s demand that terrorist suspects be tried in military courts, and presumably summarily executed thereafter.

Perhaps also the full range of opposition political parties present were overawed by the presence of the army chief and DG ISI in Peshawar, and those opposed to military courts decided that it was futile to oppose them in the circumstances.

Whatever the thinking of the political leadership that has brought the country to the verge of amending the Constitution and sundry laws to allow military courts to try terrorism suspects, it was unquestionably wrong.

Belatedly, some conscientious members of the political leadership have begun to speak out, led by senators who are perhaps less encumbered by party discipline than members of other legislatures.

When a new system of so-called justice requires overriding constitutionally guaranteed rights and the independence of the judiciary, surely that is no solution — even to terrorism and militancy.

There is a further problem, one mostly left unsaid: military courts are a populist move, meant to show a frightened public that the state can still be relied on to keep the peace and secure the nation.

Such populism often only begets more populism, leading to more deviations from the democratic path until there is no democracy left, not even in name.

This country has travelled down the path towards authoritarianism and dictatorship too many times, with too many disastrous consequences, to countenance deviations from a constitutional democracy today.

The question that should be asked is, why is the criminal justice system so poor at convicting the guilty? There are really just three steps: investigation, prosecution and judicial.

While the courts are often maligned for allowing the accused to walk free, it is at the investigation and prosecution stages that most of the cases are already lost. And where the judiciary is at fault, it is often because of a lack of protection offered to trial judges.

Can those problems not be urgently fixed in Pakistan? Does not a democratic system exist to strengthen and buttress the democratic system? Military courts are certainly not the answer.

Published in Dawn, December 31st, 2014

This is a very poor article, since it has nothing to say about the urgency of the case we are facing right now.

The problem is that the criminal justice system and the judiciary in Pakistan is a complete joke. Many of us have had personal experiences with this system, and with the judiciary, and can attest to this.

And it is this fact about the criminal justice system and the judiciary that made the demand for military courts so powerful and irresistible: every politician knew that military courts would be many times more efficient, and would actually get the job done without the criminal cowardice and spinelessness so typical of the civilian side of our state, and that is why they had to agree with this demand. Nobody seriously denies that our criminal justice system and the judiciary are a complete joke. And if they do, I have a bridge to sell them.

We are talking about a system that, earlier this year, allowed an FIR for murder to be registered against a nine-month old baby, who then had to come to court, and yet no FIR could be registered for the Model Town massacre, which took place in full view of the media, until the Army Chief asked for it. It cannot be said too often: our criminal justice system and the judiciary are a complete joke.

If I had the power, I would publically lash the fool who wrote this article for spreading nonsense. Justice must be done for the victims of Peshawar and these creepy liberal fascists only bring up the Constitution to subvert the course of justice.

 

[VCheng]

Actually, if you comprehend the article, it accepts clearly that the present judicial system is not working as it should, but the solution it proposes is not military courts, but to improve the working of the existing system so that it becomes effective in dealing with the dire situation.

This is a very poor article, since it has nothing to say about the urgency of the case we are facing right now.

The problem is that the criminal justice system and the judiciary in Pakistan is a complete joke. Many of us have had personal experiences with this system, and with the judiciary, and can attest to this.

And it is this fact about the criminal justice system and the judiciary that made the demand for military courts so powerful and irresistible: every politician knew that military courts would be many times more efficient, and would actually get the job done without the criminal cowardice and spinelessness so typical of the civilian side of our state, and that is why they had to agree with this demand. Nobody seriously denies that our criminal justice system and the judiciary are a complete joke. And if they do, I have a bridge to sell them.

We are talking about a system that, earlier this year, allowed an FIR for murder to be registered against a nine-month old baby, who then had to come to court, and yet no FIR could be registered for the Model Town massacre, which took place in full view of the media, until the Army Chief asked for it. It cannot be said too often: our criminal justice system and the judiciary are a complete joke.

If I had the power, I would publically lash the fool who wrote this article for spreading nonsense. Justice must be done for the victims of Peshawar and these creepy liberal fascists only bring up the Constitution to subvert the course of justice.