Terrorist Executions suspended: Military courts Bill to be Sabotaged in National Assembly

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

...
The next 4 weeks is a make or break moment for Nawaz Sharif

The civilians (and this includes Imran Khan) had already failed when they couldn't even include the depoliticization (and granting autonomy to) of federal and provincial law enforcement and intelligence as discussion points in their '20 point agenda'. Almost every single item in the '20 point agenda' is already part of Pakistan's legal code - the only thing missing is implementation, and implementation will never be successful over the long term without institutional autonomy and depoliticization occurring in provincial and federal law enforcement and intelligence.

 

[Solomon2]

I've long maintained the justice system in Pakistan is inadequate; it's too skewed towards the needs of the center and the wealthy rather than those of the citizen. But unaccountable drumhead courts sound like a very bad idea, just one step away from martial law. Pakistan would be going backwards to military dictatorship and the TTP would celebrate the dismantlement of democracy.

As for "kill and dump" that's another form of oppression. What do you want Pakistanis to be, 19th-century thuggees writ large?

 

[gangsta_rap]

I've long maintained the justice system in Pakistan is inadequate; it's too skewed towards the needs of the center and the wealthy rather than those of the citizen. But unaccountable drumhead courts sound like a very bad idea, just one step away from martial law. Pakistan would be going backwards to military dictatorship and the TTP would celebrate the dismantlement of democracy.

As for "kill and dump" that's another form of oppression. What do you want Pakistanis to be, 19th-century thuggees writ large?

scum

 

[Winchester]

The civilians (and this includes Imran Khan) had already failed when they couldn't even include the depoliticization (and granting autonomy to) of federal and provincial law enforcement and intelligence as discussion points in their '20 point agenda'. Almost every single item in the '20 point agenda' is already part of Pakistan's legal code - the only thing missing is implementation, and implementation will never be successful over the long term without institutional autonomy and depoliticization occurring in provincial and federal law enforcement and intelligence.

De-politicization of the police force is not going to happen in Pakistan
I mean still in large parts of Punjab politics revolves around Thanna-Kacheri
What is probably more practical is the establishment of a separate federal anti-terror force to take on these elements along with the establishment of military courts

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

This isn't the time to compromise. Patchwork solutions never work and have led Pakistan down this path. Kill and dump won't take care of terrorists in jails that are amenable to break outs. Neither will it be able to eradicate this cancer from its roots such as the cities and other provinces: it won't have much effect on scum like Sipah-e-Sahaba.

It is an imperative, in my opinion, in standing behind the Army in this matter - and the mandate of public opinion behind it.

I completely agree with you that the current set of solutions (including military courts) are not a sustainable solution to Pakistan's complex religious extremism and religious terrorism related problems, but as I pointed out in my previous post, our political leadership, including the Great Khan who couldn't see beyond his own nose in terms of the demands he raised during his protest movement, has already failed us when they couldn't even bring up the idea of institutional reforms as part of the longer term strategy to address Pakistan's myriad issues.

 

[salarsikander]

De-politicization of the police force is not going to happen in Pakistan
I mean still in large parts of Punjab politics revolves around Thanna-Kacheri
What is probably more practical is the establishment of a separate federal anti-terror force to take on these elements along with the establishment of military courts

Hi,
I feel pity for our nation

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

De-politicization of the police force is not going to happen in Pakistan
I mean still in large parts of Punjab politics revolves around Thanna-Kacheri
What is probably more practical is the establishment of a separate federal anti-terror force to take on these elements along with the establishment of military courts

Even depoliticizing federal law enforcement and intelligence institutions would be a significant step - existing institutions such as the FIA an IB could form the nucleus of a reformed force against terrorism, organized crime, religious extremism etc. (in the manner of the FBI/ATF in the US).

I see no such intent on the part of our civilian leadership - why wasn't the great Khan asking for reforms in law enforcement instead of some stupid short-term commission and the resignation of Sharif? An independent and depoliticized law enforcement would have actually arrived at that very goal.

 

[Not Sure]

its been only 2 weeks since the Peshawar tragedy and it seems that everyone has joined hands to disrupt the chance to punish the terrorists.

• UN and EU is opposing the executions of terrorists on "humanitarian grounds".
• Courts have suspended any further execution of terrorists despite their black warrants.
• Zardari has instructed his party members to disrupt the military court bill in the national assembly.
• the leader of Pakistani liberals Asma Jahangir is leading the condemnation and opposition to military courts.
• Religious parties that took their time to express their grief to the victims & condemn their terrorist brothers in arms have openly expressed their hostilities towards military courts.
• in case somehow the bill is passed in the assembly then there are indications that it will be appealed in the supreme court and repealed.
• the Judges have also shown their displeasure over military courts encroaching into their domain and might take Suo Moto against this bill.

it looks like any "action" against the terrorists promised by PM Nawaz and Ch Nisar will stop at their words only.

there are two possible reactions from army over it with drastic consequences

Army forces its will on the politicians in the shape of overt take over of the state affairs.
Army goes back to Kyani era slumber and hope that the Peshawar tragedy becomes thing of the past.

UN and EU can't do much. Even Saudi Arabia executes more people every month, but no one has a problem.

And it was very much expected of the religious parties to change their color. They have done it plenty of time.

But what would Zardari gain out of this?

 

[Solomon2]

De-politicization of the police force is not going to happen in Pakistan
I mean still in large parts of Punjab politics revolves around Thanna-Kacheri
What is probably more practical is the establishment of a separate federal anti-terror force to take on these elements along with the establishment of military courts

Practical but would it really be effective? Perhaps instead of thinking top-down you need to think from the bottom-up. Don't ask what solutions the civilian and military leaders would find practical and effective. Ask what solutions Pakistani citizens would find practical and effective if they had to organize it themselves rather than depend upon the current system.

 

[Winchester]

Even depoliticizing federal law enforcement and intelligence institutions would be a significant step - existing institutions such as the FIA an IB could form the nucleus of a reformed force against terrorism, organized crime, religious extremism etc. (in the manner of the FBI/ATF in the US).

Yes significant but do-able
Nawaz Sharif has to made to understand that these institutions have very little to do with every day politics in Punjab but as you said could form the nucleus of our anti-terror efforts

 

[Kashmiri Nationalist]

I completely agree with you that the current set of solutions (including military courts) are not a sustainable solution to Pakistan's complex religious extremism and religious terrorism related problems, but as I pointed out in my previous post, our political leadership, including the Great Khan who couldn't see beyond his own nose in terms of the demands he raised during his protest movement, has already failed us when they couldn't even bring up the idea of institutional reforms as part of the longer term strategy to address Pakistan's myriad issues.

I agree with you totally. I wasn't arguing against military courts (though I concur that they are not a long-term solution), but for them: we can't let a cowardly judiciary and political class stop them. They are the best solution we have to deal with extremism. If we allow them to win, and resort to "kill and dump", we can't deal effectively with terrorist/extremist elements that aren't in the Frontier belt.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Practical but would it really be effective? Perhaps instead of thinking top-down you need to think from the bottom-up. Don't ask what solutions the civilian and military leaders would find practical and effective. Ask what solutions Pakistani citizens would find practical and effective if they had to organize it themselves rather than depend upon the current system.

I would think that any holistic approach towards terrorism would require addressing the myriad petty criminal aspects that tie into it and feed it in terms of logistics and resources. Any Federal Force would have to depend on cooperation from local law enforcement in terms of intelligence and information that the FEDS could then perhaps put together as part of a larger picture.

 

[VCheng]

its been only 2 weeks since the Peshawar tragedy and it seems that everyone has joined hands to disrupt the chance to punish the terrorists.

• UN and EU is opposing the executions of terrorists on "humanitarian grounds".
• Courts have suspended any further execution of terrorists despite their black warrants.
• Zardari has instructed his party members to disrupt the military court bill in the national assembly.
• the leader of Pakistani liberals Asma Jahangir is leading the condemnation and opposition to military courts.
• Religious parties that took their time to express their grief to the victims & condemn their terrorist brothers in arms have openly expressed their hostilities towards military courts.
• in case somehow the bill is passed in the assembly then there are indications that it will be appealed in the supreme court and repealed.
• the Judges have also shown their displeasure over military courts encroaching into their domain and might take Suo Moto against this bill.

it looks like any "action" against the terrorists promised by PM Nawaz and Ch Nisar will stop at their words only.

there are two possible reactions from army over it with drastic consequences

Army forces its will on the politicians in the shape of overt take over of the state affairs.
Army goes back to Kyani era slumber and hope that the Peshawar tragedy becomes thing of the past.

Why do you think there is all this opposition to military courts, Sir?

 

[Winchester]

Practical but would it really be effective? Perhaps instead of thinking top-down you need to think from the bottom-up. Don't ask what solutions the civilian and military leaders would find practical and effective. Ask what solutions Pakistani citizens would find practical and effective if they had to organize it themselves rather than depend upon the current system.

These things need to happen eventually
But the reality is Pakistan needs to do something right-now...we are talking the next two years
Lets be realistic about our expectations from the Pakistani electorate and their representatives

 

[Irfan Baloch]

As for "kill and dump" that's another form of oppression. What do you want Pakistanis to be, 19th-century thuggees writ large?

erm... YES
specially for those confirmed terrorists that were caught in the act and on the scenes and have escaped any punishment due to the inadequate law and the unwillingness of the law makers to improve it over 10 years.
the message that has sent to the terrorists was that they are invincible. most of these terrorists have had access to mobile phones and were directing attacks on persecuted communities of Pakistan (again something which existed due to lax laws).

your opposition as a westerner to the military courts is a genuine one. it based on the question of accountability and saving the innocent from miscarriage of justice.
people I have mentioned have their own vested interests some are trying to safeguard their proxies, some have their own interests and madrassahs and target killers and some are doing it just out of habit for the hatred for the military

Why do you think there is all this opposition to military courts, Sir?

read my last paragraph of my reply to solomon. I think that is the reason.
what do you think?