Terrorist attack on Ahmadi mosques in Lahore

[MilesTogo]

How do you verify if one is a true or false Prophet?

Brother we are sorry if any or our words hurt you.

We are as much grieved as you are.

We are only objecting to distortion of Islam by ahmadis.


when it was declared by Allah that there will be no Prophet after Muhammad (PBUH) and prophethood ends on him then how can anyone come up with false claims and still claim to be a Muslim.


If we start accepting such claims then Nauzobillah today every other day we will see a false prophet and every tom and harry will call for his right to declare himself as prophet

 

[Ahmad]

You surely pretending to be a Muslim while you do not know the basics for a being a Muslim.

I am not pretending anything. for the last time i request you to stop personalize this issue. i have got a lot of respect for you and i expect the same thing from you.

Its not us or them. And no one cares what they think or what we think or claim, ITS QURAN and ITS Allah's Orders which decides who will be a Muslim. And according to Quran, Islam anyone who does not give shahada that Allah is One and Muhammad (PBUH) is the Last Prophet of Allah and there will be no Prophet after him. Thats it.

Yes, this is all according to Us muslims. every person thinks his/her faith is right. Qadiyanis believe thier faith is right, we believe we are right and catholics believe they are right, leave it all to a personal level.

Anyone who does not believe in finality of Prophethood on Muhammad (PBUH), is not a Muslim.

yes, that is what islam says. no disagreement.

Liberal bigots and non-believers are trying to make things confusing here whenever something is said about reality of declared qadyanis.

oh well, name calling again. nobody is confusing nothing here, if they are muslims or not that shouldn be our problem, let them live their lives. our attitude and curosity will indirectly be a good breathing ground for the terrorits and flourish their extremist ideas. let them be whatever they are, dont do what they do if you think their belief is wrong.

NO One here is justifying killing of qadyanis neither anyone nor Islam has ever advocated their killings.

yes, i am sure nobody is justifying the killings.

Neither we are talking about which religion or faith is the true or wrong.

that seems to be a good start.

 

[Abu Basit]

According to the Indian judiciary, they have been declared Muslims though.

i'm not interested in india and it's judiciary.

 

[Spring Onion]

According to the Indian judiciary, they have been declared Muslims though.

This fitna was started in undivided India so there must be some incentives for them still.

 

[T-Faz]

We can agree to disagree on this matter but we must all work together to face the real enemy, the enemy dwelling in our cities and attacking us.

If we argue with each other, we will only waste time and not be able to think of ways to counter the terrorist groups in our midst.

 

[Abu Basit]

Islam and Quran have clear stance on difference between a Muslim and a kafir.

You can not declare anyone as kafir who recite the kalima as stated essential by Islam, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and Quran for becoming a Muslim.

If a Muslim violates and acts against the teaching of Islam you can call him terrorist, criminal, munafiq as long as he/she believes one Oneness of God/Allah, and finality of prophethood of Muhammad (PBUH) you can not call him a kafir.


But if anyone claims that there is a prophet after Last Prophet (nauzobillah) then he/she is Not a Muslim.

Our objection is over their false claims we have no other concern or personal enmity with qadyanis neither we call for any injustice to them in any field.

Jana!
Someone reciting Kalimah can still be declared a kaafir but this can only be done by a genuine Islamic state and not the likes of zardari. I don't want to go in details as i don't want to waste my time in a forum which has no respect for Muslims and Islamic laws.

 

[SpArK]

This fitna was started in undivided India so there must be some incentives for them still.

Yes! You are Right


The incentive is that they can live without any fear.

 

[forcetrip]

Islam and Quran have clear stance on difference between a Muslim and a kafir.

You can not declare anyone as kafir who recite the kalima as stated essential by Islam, Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and Quran for becoming a Muslim.

If a Muslim violates and acts against the teaching of Islam you can call him terrorist, criminal, munafiq as long as he/she believes one Oneness of God/Allah, and finality of prophethood of Muhammad (PBUH) you can not call him a kafir.


But if anyone claims that there is a prophet after Last Prophet (nauzobillah) then he/she is Not a Muslim.

Our objection is over their false claims we have no other concern or personal enmity with qadyanis neither we call for any injustice to them in any field.

I consider Ahmedis non-muslims. So the only requirememnt not to be a kafir would be to reciete the kalimah properly?

"Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman. nor an aged man. Bring no harm to the trees, nor burn them with fire, especially those which are fruitful. Slay not any of the enemy's flock. save for your food. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them alone

"I have learnt that you laid hands on a woman who had hurled abuses on me, and, therefore, got her hand amputated. God has not sought vengeance even in the case of polytheism, which is a great crime. He has not permitted mutilation even with regard to manifest infidelity. Try to be considerate and sympathetic in your attitude towards others in future. Never mutilate, because it is a grave offence. God purified Islam and the Muslims from rashness and excessive wrath. You are well aware of the fact that those enemies fell into the hands of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) who had been recklessly abusing him; who had turned him out of his home; and who fought against him, but he never permitted their mutilation."

"Always search your minds and hearts and stress upon your men the need of perfect integrity and sincerity in the cause of Allah. There should be no material end before them in laying down their lives. but they abould deem it a means whereby they can please their Lord and entitle them. selves to His favour: such a spirit of selflessness should be inculcated in the minds of those who unfortunately lack it. Be firm in the thick of the battle as Allah helps man according to the perseverance that he shows in the cause of His faith and he would be rewarded in accordance with the spirit of sacrifice which he displays for the sake of the Lord. Be careful that those who have been entrusted to your care receive no harm at your hands and are never deprived of any of their legitimate rights."

 

[Abu Basit]

We can agree to disagree on this matter but we must all work together to face the real enemy, the enemy dwelling in our cities and attacking us.

If we argue with each other, we will only waste time and not be able to think of ways to counter the terrorist groups in our midst.

Real enemy= amreeka + bharat

 

[Abu Basit]

Yes! they can live without any fear.

then plz take them to your mother india

 

[Spring Onion]

Yes, this is all according to Us muslims. every person thinks his/her faith is right. Qadiyanis believe thier faith is right, we believe we are right and catholics believe they are right, leave it all to a personal level.

I would again repeat that its not about which faith is the right or wrong. Its about rules and orders of Allah and Quran which clearly state that NO One is a Muslim unless he declare Allah as the One and Muhammad (PBUH) as Last Prophet of Allah.

SIMPLE AS THAT.

According to it anyone who does not believe in finality of prophethood is NOT a Muslim.

yes, that is what islam says. no disagreement.

If that is so then why you are objecting to me and others who are trying to say the same that if anyone disagree with finality of Prophethood then he/she is NOT a Muslims

oh well, name calling again. nobody is confusing nothing here, if they are muslims or not that shouldn be our problem, let them live their lives. our attitude and curosity will indirectly be a good breathing ground for the terrorits and flourish their extremist ideas. let them be whatever they are, dont do what they do if you think their belief is wrong.

Name calling???? How. you and even a TT member and a Mod used this word Bigots, bigotry for other members just because they do not agree with the violation of Quran and Islam.

yes, i am sure nobody is justifying the killings.
that seems to be a good start.

This is the fact that NO member who is defending Islam finality of Prophethood, is justifying the barbarism. We are not justifying the killings.So please this emotional blackmailing by everyone should be avoided.

 

[SpArK]

then plz take them to your mother india

Sure...!!!

 

[forcetrip]

If that is so then why you are objecting to me and others who are trying to say the same that if anyone disagree with finality of Prophethood then he/she is NOT a Muslims

They have mosques and masjids just like us. That was the objection. Not what they believe in.

 

[Marxist]

Mr. Jinnah regarded Ahmadis as Muslims

The Founder of Pakistan, Mr. Muhammad Ali Jinnah (d. 1948), known by the title Quaid-i Azam (the great leader) accorded to him by his grateful countrymen, believed in the unity of the Muslims on the basis of their common allegiance to the expression of faith called the Kalima Tayyiba (There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah). Sectarian religious differences there may be, but all those adhering to this expression constituted, according to him, a nation with a common cause, culture, history and future.

Mr. Jinnah was on friendly terms with Maulana Muhammad Ali and a great admirer of the work of the Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement. Once, attending a party at the Maulana's residence, Mr. Jinnah made a brief speech during the course of which he expressed appreciation of the work of the Anjuman and its English organ The Light. He said:

"I get your magazine, The Light. I am a politician, and read it for political articles, but I also read the religious articles, and I keep a file of the magazine. I receive letters from foreign countries about Islam. People abroad think that, as I am a leader of the Muslims, they can write to me for information on Islam. I forward such letters for reply to your Anjuman."

Refuses to brand Ahmadis as non-Muslims.

In 1944, at a press conference in Srinagar, Kashmir, Mr. Jinnah gave his view on the issue of whether Ahmadis ought to be expelled from certain Muslim organisations. An Ahmadi journalist who was present, Mr. Abdul Aziz Shura, editor Roshni, has made a sworn statement, dated 15 January 1988, about the proceedings of this conference. We quote from this below:

"I, Abdul Aziz Shura, known as Aziz Kashmiri, editor of the daily Roshni, Srinagar, Kashmir, make the following declaration under oath.

"A delegation of the Kashmir Press Conference, Srinagar, which included several leading newspaper men, met Quaid-i-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, President of the Muslim League, at his appointed time, on 23 May 1944 at 11 a.m., at `Koshik', Nishat, Srinagar, and asked various questions.

"I asked Quaid-i-Azam, Who can join the All-India Muslim League? At this, Mr. M. A. Sabir, editor of al-Barq, told the Quaid-i-Azam that the background to the question was probably that in Kashmir Ahmadis were not allowed to join the Muslim conference. Quaid-i-Azam smiled and recorded his reply as follows:

"I have been asked a disturbing question, as to who among the Muslims can be a member of the Muslim Conference. It has been asked with particular reference to the Qadianis. My reply is that, as far as the constitution of the All-India Muslim League is concerned, it stipulates that any Muslim, without distinction of creed or sect, can become a member, provided he accepts the views, policy and programme of the Muslim League, signs the form of membership and pays the subscription. I appeal to the Muslims of Jammu and Kashmir not to raise sectarian questions, but instead to unite on one platform under one banner. In this lies the welfare of the Muslims. In this way, not only can Muslims make political and social progress effectively, but so can other communities, and so also can the state of Kashmir as a whole."

"Mr. M. A. Sabir tried as hard as he could to persuade the Quaid-i-Azam to declare Qadianis as being out of the fold of Islam. But the Quaid-i-Azam stuck resolutely to his principle and kept on replying: `What right have I to declare a person non-Muslim, when he claims to be a Muslim'.

"The proceedings of this press conference were published, under my signature, in the Riyasati of that time and the Lahore newspapers, especially Inqilab, Shahbaz, Zamindar, Siyasat etc."

Mr. Jinnah regarded Ahmadis as Muslims.

sorry to post on this section

 

[Spring Onion]

I consider Ahmedis non-muslims. So the only requirememnt not to be a kafir would be to reciete the kalimah properly?

"Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman. nor an aged man. Bring no harm to the trees, nor burn them with fire, especially those which are fruitful. Slay not any of the enemy's flock. save for your food. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them alone

"I have learnt that you laid hands on a woman who had hurled abuses on me, and, therefore, got her hand amputated. God has not sought vengeance even in the case of polytheism, which is a great crime. He has not permitted mutilation even with regard to manifest infidelity. Try to be considerate and sympathetic in your attitude towards others in future. Never mutilate, because it is a grave offence. God purified Islam and the Muslims from rashness and excessive wrath. You are well aware of the fact that those enemies fell into the hands of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) who had been recklessly abusing him; who had turned him out of his home; and who fought against him, but he never permitted their mutilation."

"Always search your minds and hearts and stress upon your men the need of perfect integrity and sincerity in the cause of Allah. There should be no material end before them in laying down their lives. but they abould deem it a means whereby they can please their Lord and entitle them. selves to His favour: such a spirit of selflessness should be inculcated in the minds of those who unfortunately lack it. Be firm in the thick of the battle as Allah helps man according to the perseverance that he shows in the cause of His faith and he would be rewarded in accordance with the spirit of sacrifice which he displays for the sake of the Lord. Be careful that those who have been entrusted to your care receive no harm at your hands and are never deprived of any of their legitimate rights."

Again prove it to me that any member (not the trolls who got banned) has advocated or justified this massacre here on this forum???????????????


If NOT Then your above quotation is not at all required.


Our argument is about the finality of Prophethood which is pretty much clear and NO Muslim has any doubt about it.